Spanish Line Infantry Button - UPDATE on ID! 6/10

[West Jersey Detecting]

SEE UPDATED PHOTO AND ID IN REPLY AT END OF THREAD

I finally got a chance to try the TDI Pro today. It picks up the tiniest targets, but definitely has a learning curve. After a while at a "hunted out site" I decided call it a day. On the way home I decided to check out a school that is on the route that Clinton's men took on their way to Monmouth in June of 1778. I found nothing but modern coinage and the usual can slaw until I got a signal that I thought sounded like a button and dug this old pewter low convex button. It seems to be military, but is too far gone for me to ID, so I am hoping that someone in the forum recognizes it.
(IP are you reading this?) I can also use some advice on preserving it...It is already flaking!



Here is an example of the size of some targets that the TDI was finding (and it was not on the most sensitive pulse delay):

 

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[Iron Patch]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

It's actually an early 1800s copper/brass button (Is it not?) so an aggressive cleaning like a lemon juice soak will help a lot. But you could try peroxide (no water) a few times and see how it goes. It would clean it, keep the patina, and give you a better look of what you're dealing with.

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Are you seeing any design on your end looking at the button Neil?

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Are you seeing any design on your end looking at the button Neil?

Yes there is definitely a design, with two characters....the second being "0". I am posting better photos in the "What is it?" forum.

It's actually an early 1800s copper/brass button (Is it not?) so an aggressive cleaning like a lemon juice soak will help a lot. But you could try peroxide (no water) a few times and see how it goes. It would clean it, keep the patina, and give you a better look of what you're dealing with.

I was not thinking clearly when I posted it. Definitely brass or another copper alloy. No doubt that there is a "0" . Possibly 10 or 40?. I have posted it in the "what is it ?" forum.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

Agreed, but the anything is more on the Civvy side

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

Agreed, but the anything is more on the Civvy side

There's some Non British modern European military that are made like that, and they are not near as durable as early buttons. So considering where it was found, and the edge loss, it could be foreign World War era military.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

Agreed, but the anything is more on the Civvy side

There's some Non British modern European military that are made like that, and they are not near as durable as early buttons. So considering where it was found, and the edge loss, it could be foreign World War era military.

That may make sense...

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

Agreed, but the anything is more on the Civvy side

There's some Non British modern European military that are made like that, and they are not near as durable as early buttons. So considering where it was found, and the edge loss, it could be foreign World War era military.

That may make sense...

Here's an example of a German WW I Button. It probably has a loop shank similar to yours and what's on much earlier buttons.

There seems to be a design around the edge you yours so could be eagle wings.

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Its similar to the early 1800s French 'numbered' type, ie. with the raised edge. Although no reason why it couldn't be British, but it will be a tough one to prove military I think.

French usually have bird cage or turret type shanks. But it could be anything.

Cleaning will tell the story.

Agreed, but the anything is more on the Civvy side

There's some Non British modern European military that are made like that, and they are not near as durable as early buttons. So considering where it was found, and the edge loss, it could be foreign World War era military.

That may make sense...

Here's an example of a German WW I Button. It probably has a loop shank like yours and on much earlier buttons.

funny that, when you said modern, I then thought of Germany, but without a backmark, we just have a load of likely guesses.

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

I had the button oriented a bit wrong, but if you rotate it, you can see that it may be a 10, similar in design to this WWI/WWII German button:

 

[Iron Patch]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

I had the button oriented a bit wrong, but if you rotate it, you can see that it may be a 10, similar in design to this WWI/WWII German button:

yes, sure looks like a 10th. Damn... I was going to rotate the image yesterday but decided not to! Amazing how being right side up tells the story. (and very clearly)

 

[Woodland Detectors]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

I had the button oriented a bit wrong, but if you rotate it, you can see that it may be a 10, similar in design to this WWI/WWII German button:

Sure is...Clear as day. Nice ID Neil!

LOL

 

[CRUSADER]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

I had the button oriented a bit wrong, but if you rotate it, you can see that it may be a 10, similar in design to this WWI/WWII German button:

yes, sure looks like a 10th. Damn... I was going to rotate the image yesterday but decided not to! Amazing how being right side up tells the story. (and very clearly)

 

[bergie]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Hi - I sent photo (enhanced photo posted under "what is it" to button expert Don Troiani and he sent following...

I'd guess a Spanish button from the Span Am War. dt

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Hi - I sent photo (enhanced photo posted under "what is it" to button expert Don Troiani and he sent following...

I'd guess a Spanish button from the Span Am War. dt

Thanks Bergie! Nice to see you back in the forums! I was hoping for something a bit more colonial, but it is still nice to know that there is stuff older than the clad era under the soil at the school!

 

[Don in SJ]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Hi - I sent photo (enhanced photo posted under "what is it" to button expert Don Troiani and he sent following...

I'd guess a Spanish button from the Span Am War. dt

Thanks Bergie! Nice to see you back in the forums! I was hoping for something a bit more colonial, but it is still nice to know that there is stuff older than the clad era under the soil at the school!

Neil, I would most certaintly not consider Mr Troiani's "guess" as a definite ID. His expertise is Rev War era relics, and I know from previous requests to him by others that I would not consider his guess a final answer. However, to followup on DT's reply if I were you I would send your photos to John Powell who specializes in Spanish buttons, buckles, relics although he also may have limited knowledge of anything past the era on his website. http://www.artifacts.org/default.htm His contact email addy is on his site.

Don

 

[West Jersey Detecting]

Re: Pewter Button....Red Coat

Hi - I sent photo (enhanced photo posted under "what is it" to button expert Don Troiani and he sent following...

I'd guess a Spanish button from the Span Am War. dt

Thanks Bergie! Nice to see you back in the forums! I was hoping for something a bit more colonial, but it is still nice to know that there is stuff older than the clad era under the soil at the school!

Neil, I would most certaintly not consider Mr Troiani's "guess" as a definite ID. His expertise is Rev War era relics, and I know from previous requests to him by others that I would not consider his guess a final answer. However, to followup on DT's reply if I were you I would send your photos to John Powell who specializes in Spanish buttons, buckles, relics although he also may have limited knowledge of anything past the era on his website. http://www.artifacts.org/default.htm His contact email addy is on his site.

Don

Thanks Don! I finally got a chance to send him an email last night and he replied right away this morning. Here is what he said:


Dear Neil,



The “bird cage” shank would be French; the Spanish used solid, integrally cast shanks or more conventional shanks later on. What you have here conforms to the regulations for Spanish line infantry buttons during the period from 1841 to 1869, though the numeral “1” is quite odd. What this is doing there [in South Jersey] is anyone’s guess, but that’s what it is.



Hope this helps!



John



Kind of strange find for this area, but that is what makes this hobby so great! You just never know what you are going to dig.

 

[HISPAN]

Hello friends!
Although research on this finding and is very abanzada, I can bring some clarity and historical data Regiment No. 10, and provide conclusions that ended in territory of USA..........
It is true is a button belonging to the Spanish Line Infantry No. 10 of the City of Cordoba, manufactured between 1841 to 1846 ... but.
Due to the great crisis in which Spain found itself after losing all its territories outside Europe, there was not enough money to make uniform buttons and continued to use civil war practically till 1936.
Do not forget that your current Nacion USA forged in part by invading or buy territories in Spain (California, New Mexico, Texas, also the island of Cuba and the Philippines ... that later lost.) .... ie facing our two Empires They were exposed for several wars during the period of use of this button, and may be the memory of a soldier who belonged to one of these wars.
Córdoba Infantry Regiment No. 10 is eminently maritime origin and newly created in 1566 sailed to Naples and its first field master and founder D. Lope de Figueroa, was his first name to "Tercio de Figueroa", for a year later changed to "Third of the Ocean Sea Fleet." In the year 1571 is known as "Third of the Catholic League" and then in 1580, called "Third of the Navy." After his victory in the battle of the Third in 1586, is given the name "Third of the Third."
In 1603 was renamed "Old Regiment of the Royal Navy of the Ocean Sea", until in 1664 after numerous personnel recruiting in the city of Cordoba, became known as "Third Provincial de Córdoba". A few years later retrieves the name "Old Regiment of the Royal Navy of the Ocean Sea", until in 1700 it changed to 'Third 1 of the Navy. "
In the year 1704 is known as the "Regiment of ships n º 1", until in 1707 he called the "Regiment of ships n º 23" and in 1718 called "Infantry Regiment Cordoba n º 6", changing its numbering No. 10 in 1741 and No. 9 in 1769.
Loses its name in 1810 by "Provisional Regiment No. 4", recovering again in 1811 by "Córdoba Infantry Regiment No. 4" and change again in 1815 by "Córdoba Infantry Regiment No. 12." With the loss of the organization of the Regiments in 1823 became known as "Battalion n º 23" and "Battalion No. 24" in 1825 and quickly retrieve the foot of the Regiment as "Provisional Regiment of Line # 9."

In 1826 called "Infantry Regiment Almansa No. 9" and two years later in 1828 is changed to "Infantry Regiment Córdoba No. 9" and finally in 1833 taking the name "Infantry Regiment Córdoba No. 10."
Is dissolved in 1854 and again organized the same year with the name "Cordova Infantry Regiment No. 10", with which he remained until 1931.
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ----------
And these are the best known battles that the regiment acted 10:

"Maritime Campaign" (1571-1630), Battle of Lepanto, Agra, Islas Third, Armada, Mamora beach taking actions in the Windward Islands.

"American War" (1634-1639); Defeats Pernambuco and Paraiba, defense of the bay of Todos Santos and combat-Camaraca.

"War with France" (1639-1643); Defense Canet, assault Rives-Altes and aid of Rosas.

"War of Italy" (1646-1650); Victoria Argentazo and Giglio, Orbitello relief, making Naples and Piombino, Oneglia conquest.

"War in Catalonia (1650-1655); Occupation Miraved, making Solsona.

"War with Portugal" (1657-1665); Making Olivenza defense Badajoz, site Yepes, reconquest of Arronches, Battle of Estremoz and Villaviciosa.

"War of Succession" (1707-1714), Battle of Almansa, occupation of Alcoy, making Denia, Gudiña battle, Monte-Torrero, Brihuega and Villaviciosa.

"War in Italy" (1718-1747), Conquest of Messina, occupancy and Coni Demont, Battle of Madonna del Olmo, Basignana, Plasencia, occupation of Tortona, and fighting CASTALA-Nuovo and Chin.
"Maritime Campaign" (1753-1792); Defense Ceuta, Conquest Santa Catalina Island and Sacramento, site of Gibraltar, Oran defense.

"War of Roussillon" (1793-1794); making Bellegarde, Thuir battle, Canoes.

"War of Independence (1808-1812), Paso del Guadalquivir, Batalla de Bailen, Somosierra defense, Battle of Medellín and Ocaña Almonacid, fighting and blocking Castellá Barcelona.

"First Carlist War" (1833-1838); Shares Arcos, Nazar, museums and Mendigorría. Miravalles actions, Villaró, Mendigorría battle, Huesca, Barbastro and Body Fat. Linares actions, Arcos de las Cantera, Alcora. Castil comatose de la Peña, Morella, Uxó and Maella.
"Political Events" (1843-1849), Siege of Barcelona, ​​Suria actions, alcotan, Sabadesa, San Pedro de Torrelló, Angles Mas de Vilar. Oriols fighting, Albana, Planas and Espontella.

"War of Africa" ​​(1859-1860); Defense Ceuta, Battle of Castillejos, actions Azmir River, Battle of Tetuan and Wad-Ras.

"Civil War" (1872-1876); Shares of Sierra de Bernal, Villafría, Miranda de Ebro, Yesa Gandesa Lácar fighting, Sierra de Galceran, Montejurra and Estella.

"Guerra de Cuba" (1895-1898); Shares Bayagua, Arrochar, Mines, Rio Grande, Piñán, Barbecue defense.
Campaigns in Africa "(1913-1924), Rincon de Medik Actions, Izumate, Cudia-Xeruta.
-------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- ----
And now my historical conclusions about this finding:

Is a Spanish button Infantry Regiment No. 10, belonged to a soldier who attended the Cuba war between Spain and USA (in America called Spanish-American War.)
The Button was transported to USA for some soldiers as souvenirs of the war.
This is based on the regiment No. 10, fought in the war in Cuba and is highlighted in red a little higher and was the only war in which this regiment participated against the U.S.A.

In this Spanish forum shows a button that looks like:

http://www.google.es/imgres?imgurl=...1W1PBEA_es&tbm=isch&ei=2yHyTdCvN8O1tAaw1qmIBw



Some similar Buttons hunt for me:
https://picasaweb.google.com/terrac...key=Gv1sRgCPar4Kq5v_b8nwE#5616610782272027986

Thank to God our two nations are now friends and it will be much more in the coming years .... but it was not always so.
Sorry for my bad English.

H