Special Programs

[Tedyoh]

Do a cap test with Silencer on -1 then change Silencer to 4.....listen to the difference in tone and you will probably never dig another....that's how easy it is, Silencer 4...everyone says read Andy's book but no one ever says increasing the siliencer for caps....it's in there.....page 101 - 103

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[vferrari]

Do a cap test with Silencer on -1 then change Silencer to 4.....listen to the difference in tone and you will probably never dig another....that's how easy it is, Silencer 4...everyone says read Andy's book but no one ever says increasing the siliencer for caps....it's in there.....page 101 - 103

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The reason is depth is king and folks are loath to lose any capability there, and despite what it says in his book, Andy hammers home the thought that any silencer setting above 0 "significantly" affects depth, esp. in his Bootcamp sessions. Well, the answer is always, it depends. My personal experience has been that high silencer settings have little depth impact under most circumstances, but I have not done exhaustive test garden experiments. Calabash has done testing that also shows he can still hit deep targets with high silencer settings. I agree with you Ted that it works well with little downside. But I have backed off from recommending it because folks are so paranoid about affecting depth. I even hesitate to recommend running with disc for the same reason, even though Andy agrees that disc only affects non-ferrous target depth at very high settings (i.e., greater than disc = 15) and it is the most effective way to unmask non-ferrous targets from thick iron. When I recommend using silencer to flush out crown caps at Bootcamps , I can literally see the disbelief and skepticism in the attendees' faces. Lol. Bottom line - yeah for crown caps, silencer helps them sound more craptastic and I recommend it if you cannot hearvthe difference otherwise. Don't be afraid to use it. After all, you might be surprised at the default silencer setting for the stock basic program, and I know folks find deep stuff with it.

 

[Tedyoh]

Well said.....not sure why he would preach that on the Silencer when it's the Reactivity...probably 4 times over tne silencer that affects the depth...even from going to R2 to R3 is probably close to an inch when going from S-1 to 4 is maybe....maybe a half inch (with the same R value)

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[G.A.P.metal]

Do a cap test with Silencer on -1 then change Silencer to 4.....listen to the difference in tone and you will probably never dig another....that's how easy it is, Silencer 4...everyone says read Andy's book but no one ever says increasing the siliencer for caps....it's in there.....page 101 - 103

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When i went in the water the first time Ted advised me as to the using the Silencer as to ID the caps worked like a charm.
Gary

 

[vferrari]

Well said.....not sure why he would preach that on the Silencer when it's the Reactivity...probably 4 times over tne silencer that affects the depth...even from going to R2 to R3 is probably close to an inch when going from S-1 to 4 is maybe....maybe a half inch (with the same R value)

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Couple of thoughts of where Andy is coming from re: Silencer and Reactivity. Just want to clear some stuff up. The basis for my statements are what Andy says at the bootcamps and I have not gone back to see if it contradicts anything his says in his book.

First of all, full disclosure. Andy has graciously allowed me to assist in instructing his bootcamp on a couple of occasions. He does it knowing full well we have some differences in philosophy in how we set up the Deus but he knows I have success and can articulate to the class why I do what I do. Primarily, he is a multi-tones and discrimination guy and he allows me to contrast that as the full tones/no disc guy. I have recently come full circle and now have come to the conclusion that three major program groups are useful to me depending on the situation: Full tones/no disc (Hot Program Group). I like this in parks and in dry sand with low density trash areas. Multi-tones and disc (and a pitch variant I use for unmasking) (Fast/Unmasking Program Group) work best in high density ferrous/trash situations, and, finally, I like to use Gold Field (All Metal Program Group) in hot dirt backed up by an unmasking program. Andy has found it useful to provide both our points of view on Deus program philosopy to his bootcamp attendees. OK now that that is out of the way.

Silencer: Andy still maintains that above 0 it can appreciably affect depth performance and cites a fairly large percentage hit if you run it up to 4. I have not seen that bad a hit on depth but, as I said, I only have anecdotal evidence to back me up on that and have seen Calabash's videos which show you can still hit deep targets under some conditions. Andy has not compared Silencer depth impact to any other setting (e.g., Reactivity). He states that XP put silencer in merely at the request of the North Americans who have to deal with crown caps which apparently are much less of problem in the UK and France.

Reactivity: Andy asks a question at bootcamp: Does Silencer affect depth? He says the answer is...no! This may be somewhat a matter of semantics, but what he is saying is that reactivity does not make deep targets disappear but it sure makes them hard to audibly detect because the tone, though present, is clipped appreciably for the small and deep targets. If you miss the chirp, then you miss the target and that can be construed as an INDIRECT impact on depth capability. He maintains that if the Deus can pick up the target even if you may miss the audio, then depth isn't "technically" affected, even though it is "practically" affected and hence why folks say you can lose significant depth when reactivity is high. Again, Andy has never compared the two effects (Silencer and Reactivity) directly with regards to depth, because he doesn't consider Reactivity as directly affecting depth.

Hope that helps.

 

[Tedyoh]

Thanks V but honestly your last paragraph makes no sense....or maybe it will if you can help me with this depth/audio issue....

So....if the 9" dime in my test garden has good audio with R0 and no audio at R5, what setting do I have to change to get my 9" dime to become audible again with my R5 setting?

I ask because Andy states the target is still being seen but the audio is just "clipped" with R5....

The "clipped" audio is true with shallow targets but as far as I know, not deep targets.

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[Calabash Digger]

Simple answer cut reactivity up you will not hear the target...whether it still sees it or not. I can not find a depth decrease with a high silencer in my garden on 12 inch coins..but will take it out this morning ant try it on a dime at extreme depth. disc has to almost be wide open before it affects depth in my garden before it affects depth in my garden. I too have changed my style of hunting in thick iron where I'm using disc now and iron audio. Full tones zero disc is just my locater program now pretty much.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

Well i am happy that the places i hunt any "crimped caps" have been Eaten away by the Fertilizer !
A lot of this farmers seen to be planting beer cans...they all seem to be happy in their tractors in the fields....cuz they are buzzed.
Gary

 

[Calabash Digger]

update minimal depth decrease with high silencer on (some )deep targets will show a video when camara charges up..

 

[vferrari]

Thanks V but honestly your last paragraph makes no sense....or maybe it will if you can help me with this depth/audio issue....

So....if the 9" dime in my test garden has good audio with R0 and no audio at R5, what setting do I have to change to get my 9" dime to become audible again with my R5 setting?

I ask because Andy states the target is still being seen but the audio is just "clipped" with R5....

The "clipped" audio is true with shallow targets but as far as I know, not deep targets.

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Like I said, I think it is semantics, in REALITY depth is affected if you can't hear the target even though the detector is "seeing" it. My main point of the post was that Andy never compares the relative depth impact of Silencer vs. Reactivity. He never said, Silencer affects depth more than Reactivity (I was responding to your "not sure why he would preach that on the Silencer when it's the Reactivity..." statement).

The other "Reactivity doesn't affect depth" thing was just a sidebar. I am doing that from recall and may have screwed it up, it is just something I recall he said that struck me. The truism that recovery speed affects depth is still a truism. On the other hand, again it is all relative. I would argue that the Deus has just about the fastest recovery speed of any detector out there even when reactivity is set at 1, and we all know it is plenty "deep".

Looking in his book he states, ""While it might seem that a detector with the shortest Recovery Distance or fastest Recovery Time would be the best one to own, there are some tradeoffs. If the circuitry resets very quickly, the target response will be somewhat "chopped" and overall detection depth tends to be reduced due to the weaker signals being cutoff in the reset process." (p. 33). So there you go.

In the bootcamp, I think he was trying to illustrate the technical difference between a clipped return signal (the detector "saw" the target but moved on and is processing the next target before you even hear it) vs. sensitivity/Tx power where the target is never seen because the transmit or return signals are too weak. Again, semantics as far as the detectorist is concerned. And I reserve to right to have screwed up the message since I am getting senile. Lol.

 

[Tedyoh]

Senile? Wait 'till 45 rolls around....

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[vferrari]

45 rolled around a LONG time ago for me.

 

[vferrari]

Well i am happy that the places i hunt any "crimped caps" have been Eaten away by the Fertilizer !
A lot of this farmers seen to be planting beer cans...they all seem to be happy in their tractors in the fields....cuz they are buzzed.
Gary

Man, Gary, you got that right. That was what I was fighting in my last hunt. Think I posted a picture of it somewhere. You just can't pass it up though otherwise you leave behind the '94 V Nickel I found.

 

[vferrari]

Simple answer cut reactivity up you will not hear the target...whether it still sees it or not. I can not find a depth decrease with a high silencer in my garden on 12 inch coins..but will take it out this morning ant try it on a dime at extreme depth. disc has to almost be wide open before it affects depth in my garden before it affects depth in my garden. I too have changed my style of hunting in thick iron where I'm using disc now and iron audio. Full tones zero disc is just my locater program now pretty much.

I am right there with you, brother, on disc. Full tones, no disc is so summer 2017...lol. Would like to test it down your way some time. Still trying to figure out how to pull that off.

 

[Calabash Digger]

I'm trying to get some new sites let me see how that pans out and if it works out well you will have a invite.

 

[vferrari]

For the record, the comment above regarding full tones/no disc was tongue-in-cheek. It is my go to low trash program in parks and dry beach.

 

[cobill]

Couple of thoughts of where Andy is coming from re: Silencer and Reactivity. Just want to clear some stuff up. The basis for my statements are what Andy says at the bootcamps and I have not gone back to see if it contradicts anything his says in his book.

First of all, full disclosure. Andy has graciously allowed me to assist in instructing his bootcamp on a couple of occasions. He does it knowing full well we have some differences in philosophy in how we set up the Deus but he knows I have success and can articulate to the class why I do what I do. Primarily, he is a multi-tones and discrimination guy and he allows me to contrast that as the full tones/no disc guy. I have recently come full circle and now have come to the conclusion that three major program groups are useful to me depending on the situation: Full tones/no disc (Hot Program Group). I like this in parks and in dry sand with low density trash areas. Multi-tones and disc (and a pitch variant I use for unmasking) (Fast/Unmasking Program Group) work best in high density ferrous/trash situations, and, finally, I like to use Gold Field (All Metal Program Group) in hot dirt backed up by an unmasking program. Andy has found it useful to provide both our points of view on Deus program philosopy to his bootcamp attendees. OK now that that is out of the way.

Silencer: Andy still maintains that above 0 it can appreciably affect depth performance and cites a fairly large percentage hit if you run it up to 4. I have not seen that bad a hit on depth but, as I said, I only have anecdotal evidence to back me up on that and have seen Calabash's videos which show you can still hit deep targets under some conditions. Andy has not compared Silencer depth impact to any other setting (e.g., Reactivity). He states that XP put silencer in merely at the request of the North Americans who have to deal with crown caps which apparently are much less of problem in the UK and France.

Reactivity: Andy asks a question at bootcamp: Does Silencer affect depth? He says the answer is...no! This may be somewhat a matter of semantics, but what he is saying is that reactivity does not make deep targets disappear but it sure makes them hard to audibly detect because the tone, though present, is clipped appreciably for the small and deep targets. If you miss the chirp, then you miss the target and that can be construed as an INDIRECT impact on depth capability. He maintains that if the Deus can pick up the target even if you may miss the audio, then depth isn't "technically" affected, even though it is "practically" affected and hence why folks say you can lose significant depth when reactivity is high. Again, Andy has never compared the two effects (Silencer and Reactivity) directly with regards to depth, because he doesn't consider Reactivity as directly affecting depth.

Hope that helps.

Great post! I just picked up a lightly used Deus with W5 phones and found some barely used 9" HF coils(both sizes). Keep sharing the tips for those of us who can't make it out to Andy's bootcamps.

Bill Moore
Laporte, CO.