Start Up Costs?

[rockbar]

Very informative thread guys. Learning a lot from it. I'll stick to my small-time gold making, but the bigger side of it sure is interesting.... maybe someday.

GW... great quote-
"Move, head west learn to prospect...when You have produced a pound of gold with a Pick Shovel and pan...Then maybe you'll have enough prospecting knowledge to decide what your strengths are...what type of operation you want to create."

I believe you are referring to the "school of hard knocks", which is a great school and probably not one many want to attend.

 

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[gold tramp]

Very informative thread guys. Learning a lot from it. I'll stick to my small-time gold making, but the bigger side of it sure is interesting.... maybe someday.

GW... great quote-
"Move, head west learn to prospect...when You have produced a pound of gold with a Pick Shovel and pan...Then maybe you'll have enough prospecting knowledge to decide what your strengths are...what type of operation you want to create."

I believe you are referring to the "school of hard knocks", which is a great school and probably not one many want to attend.

You guys got any good storys of lb gold finds hardrock or placer
GT,,,,,,,

 

[SaltwaterServr]

You guys got any good storys of lb gold finds hardrock or placer
GT,,,,,,,

Writing one right now, waiting on second set of assays.

 

[Goldwasher]

120k Eight claims and permits. Just have to get a plant and big Tonkas.

https://reno.craigslist.org/for/d/180-acre-placer-property/6380894852.html

However it has been for sale a while. Maybe the guy would work something out.

 

[Mackaydon]

I don't do hard rock mining, but in other ventures I do the best I can on estimating time and cost--then multiply it by 150% to get closer to my past final results.
Even then, 150% may not have been sufficient 'cushion'.
Don.....

 

[Golden_Crab]

If you don't mine for a living, please don't advise. If you live off a retirement pension that has nothing to do with mining, please don't advise. I know most on here are hobbyists, I know there are a handful of people here that mine for a living and those are the ones I want posting in here. Keep it on topic. Thanks.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Your ROI will be determined by the quality of the deposit. Rich deposit that's easy to mine = equals quick good ROI. Just some random 3 gram deposit and prepare to go broke slowly and painfully no matter how much money you bring to the table.

Until you know what the deposit consists of any numbers are from Disneyland. To succeed a small miner should be able to find a deposit rich enough to walk away each day with a profit from their labor. If the deposit is good enough one man with hand tools can make a profit. If the deposit doesn't pinch out and more labor/equipment is needed to mine the deposit the mining must pay the way. If the deposit doesn't make a profit from mining there is no reason to claim or mine the deposit.

The old system of Prospect ---> Claim ---> Prove Deposit ---> Mine hasn't changed in all these years. You really can't reinvent that cycle by buying claims or bringing big equipment with you. In fact it's simply foolish to purchase equipment before you own a truly valuable and proven mineable claim. There is no way to know which, if any, equipment will be needed.

If you are prospecting for gold there are still small rich deposits that are too small for a big mining company but will make a small miner wealthy. Anything else and you are treating mining like a gambling game. Gambling and mining is a deadly combination and will put your ROI so far in the future it's not even worth discussing.

Find, claim and define the mineral deposit first and then you can do real cost/benefit analysis. Then we can have a realistic discussion of equipment needs and costs. Miners have done it that way for thousands of years and it's still how mining is done.

It's still out there, go get u sum!

Heavy Pans

 

[Golden_Crab]

Your ROI will be determined by the quality of the deposit. Rich deposit that's easy to mine = equals quick good ROI. Just some random 3 gram deposit and prepare to go broke slowly and painfully no matter how much money you bring to the table.

Until you know what the deposit consists of any numbers are from Disneyland. To succeed a small miner should be able to find a deposit rich enough to walk away each day with a profit from their labor. If the deposit is good enough one man with hand tools can make a profit. If the deposit doesn't pinch out and more labor/equipment is needed to mine the deposit the mining must pay the way. If the deposit doesn't make a profit from mining there is no reason to claim or mine the deposit.

The old system of Prospect ---> Claim ---> Prove Deposit ---> Mine hasn't changed in all these years. You really can't reinvent that cycle by buying claims or bringing big equipment with you. In fact it's simply foolish to purchase equipment before you own a truly valuable and proven mineable claim. There is no way to know which, if any, equipment will be needed.

If you are prospecting for gold there are still small rich deposits that are too small for a big mining company but will make a small miner wealthy. Anything else and you are treating mining like a gambling game. Gambling and mining is a deadly combination and will put your ROI so far in the future it's not even worth discussing.

Find, claim and define the mineral deposit first and then you can do real cost/benefit analysis. Then we can have a realistic discussion of equipment needs and costs. Miners have done it that way for thousands of years and it's still how mining is done.

It's still out there, go get u sum!

Heavy Pans

I'm not sure where the idea that I'm pulling a Hoffman and running off to some land unknown planning to just start digging and hoping for the best? That's a great way to end up broke fast. I'm asking for help with concept-to-business plan with accurate estimates, I'm perfectly fine with my prospecting abilities. If I need help there I'll ask, thanks.

 

[gold tramp]

Your ROI will be determined by the quality of the deposit. Rich deposit that's easy to mine = equals quick good ROI. Just some random 3 gram deposit and prepare to go broke slowly and painfully no matter how much money you bring to the table.

Until you know what the deposit consists of any numbers are from Disneyland. To succeed a small miner should be able to find a deposit rich enough to walk away each day with a profit from their labor. If the deposit is good enough one man with hand tools can make a profit. If the deposit doesn't pinch out and more labor/equipment is needed to mine the deposit the mining must pay the way. If the deposit doesn't make a profit from mining there is no reason to claim or mine the deposit.

The old system of Prospect ---> Claim ---> Prove Deposit ---> Mine hasn't changed in all these years. You really can't reinvent that cycle by buying claims or bringing big equipment with you. In fact it's simply foolish to purchase equipment before you own a truly valuable and proven mineable claim. There is no way to know which, if any, equipment will be needed.

If you are prospecting for gold there are still small rich deposits that are too small for a big mining company but will make a small miner wealthy. Anything else and you are treating mining like a gambling game. Gambling and mining is a deadly combination and will put your ROI so far in the future it's not even worth discussing.

Find, claim and define the mineral deposit first and then you can do real cost/benefit analysis. Then we can have a realistic discussion of equipment needs and costs. Miners have done it that way for thousands of years and it's still how mining is done.

It's still out there, go get u sum!

Heavy Pans

Can i still call myself a small scale hardrock miner, even if i only find grms.
Makin me feel kinda foolish clay.
Chasin grms lookin for lbs
G.T,,,

 

[SaltwaterServr]

I'm not sure where the idea that I'm pulling a Hoffman and running off to some land unknown planning to just start digging and hoping for the best? That's a great way to end up broke fast. I'm asking for help with concept-to-business plan with accurate estimates, I'm perfectly fine with my prospecting abilities. If I need help there I'll ask, thanks.

Everyone is telling you that you're doing it ass backwards and you're not listening to any of us.

You don't have a propect area picked but have narrowed it down to three states, Nevada, Arizona, and Colorado. That's an area 50% larger than Texas. The geology is grossly different between and within those three states.

You don't know whether you want to work either placer or lode, two grossly different types of mining.

All you've told us is that somewhere within three-hundred and twenty-five thousand square miles you want to start a gold mining operation, hopefully on an arkose greenstone with a lot of free milling gold.

That's like coming to an agriculture forum and saying you want to start a farm, or a ranch, with maybe some alpacas.

 

[Mad Machinist]

Can i still call myself a small scale hardrock miner, even if i only find grms.
Makin me feel kinda foolish clay.
Chasin grms lookin for lbs
G.T,,,

Yea, your still one of us small scale hard rock miners. Hopefully you get lucky and find something good this season.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I'm not sure where the idea that I'm pulling a Hoffman and running off to some land unknown planning to just start digging and hoping for the best? That's a great way to end up broke fast. I'm asking for help with concept-to-business plan with accurate estimates, I'm perfectly fine with my prospecting abilities. If I need help there I'll ask, thanks.

Clay laid this out pretty damn well. You have to know where you are going to operate and EXACTLY what is in the ground as far as minerals and host rock. If your set ip to process softer material and try to run hard quartz through the system your gonna tear chit up and go broke in maintenance costs.

You have to know what is in the ground before you start mining. if your pulling something like arsenopyrite and not processing it properly, well, congratulations, you just created a Superfund site and have lost everything you own to the EPA.

You also have to know the extent of the deposit your mining. Believe it or not, you can get a loan based on what is in the ground as long as you can prove it. And the only way to do that is "drill baby drill".

You seen to want a long term gig so your looking at a lot of equipment. Equipment sitting and not moving ore costs you money. Plain and simple. It will do you no good to have a bunch of "Tonka trucks" sitting around while making payments on them when you can get away with a small crusher and a shaker table.

No one here is trying to discourage you from doing what you want. You asked for help and us experienced guys are telling you that your doing this ass backwards and are going to go broke because you are going to. Hard rock is what I and many others here have been doing for a long time. We are trying to help you be successful. You can listen to us or not. It's your choice.

My advice to you is to listen to what we are telling you. There are a lot of smaller deposits left out there that were passed over.

Good luck.

 

[Mad Machinist]

I'll lay out a path for you to follow since you want to buy equipment first.

Keene RC46DR---------$10K
4'x8' shaker table------$10K
16' trailer---------------$5K
water tanks-------------$3K
Misc.--------------------$10K

Now your at $38-40K. Go find old tailings piles first and go to town. A lot was thrown into tailings piles when gold was $20 an ounce. This way you can build up slowly without mortgaging everything you own.

Be careful though in Arizona. You just might run into us out there. We're rather protective of what we have.

 

[gold tramp]

Yea, your still one of us small scale hard rock miners. Hopefully you get lucky and find something good this season.

I was just funnin with Clay,
Im just a prospector although i like hardrock have dug a few trenches n a couple shafts deepest 36 ft, it dont qualify me to call myself a hardrock miner, leave that to the guys that dug those holes you and your partner are showing.

If i ever sink a shaft 100ft then ill exept the title proudly till then im just a gold tramp,,,

 

[YukonPlacerGold]

Hello: I have the following New Placer Gold Insitu Technology, We have our own drilling equipment and have worked in Nevada and Alaska. Please take a look and please feel free to share. This technology to get placer gold to the surface is very low cost. I work in Yukon/ Alaska in the summer time and would like to build new partners for winter work in warm areas, we use minimal water.....
(deleted by mod for rule violation, can not use TN to raise funds)
Regards
Kenn

 

[Skunked68w]

So what would be a good minimalist set up for prospecting and some small scale production? What’s the bare minimum? Is the 30k set up you posted best or is there a cheaper one? Also i like the period six mining videos on YouTube mad machinist and saltwatersevr post. Keep them coming please

 

[Mad Machinist]

A cheaper option is a DIY impact mill and DIY miller table. But that is micro scale. To make real money, your gonna have to spend some money.

If you are careful, you can pick up the above equipment used for about half of what I posted.

 

[Clay Diggins]

So what would be a good minimalist set up for prospecting and some small scale production? What’s the bare minimum? Is the 30k set up you posted best or is there a cheaper one? Also i like the period six mining videos on YouTube mad machinist and saltwatersevr post. Keep them coming please

Assuming you have already prospected and found at least two potential locations:

An assay will run you $40 - $50 each. Cost runs about $1,200 for the initial assays per prospect. Figure another $16,000 in mining claim costs to secure the areas for exploration and about 8-10 times that if you are leasing private land. When you have a properly collected set of grab samples that have indexed assays you can start looking into whether the deposit might be valuable. Before that it's all speculation.

Your personal travel/accommodation expenses are up to the local conditions, your tolerance level and how long it takes you to do the exploration work.

After you have a potential small deposit figure about $2 million for a small (24 holes at 1,500 ft) drill and profile project to get enough information to see if there might be a good deposit. If not rinse and repeat the whole process for each prospect. That's why you have to have at least two prospects to start out.

Everything above is the cheap independent stuff junior exploration companies live for. Those companies usually have 3 - 4 degreed field Geologists in partnership with maybe one or two part time helpers employed by them. The usual annual budget for a small junior exploration company is about 4-12 million. Most Juniors keep about 5 or 6 projects on line at a time and develop (explore) them as they get financing. Figure about 7 years of exploration on average before you have a salable/mineable project if you have good people and good luck.

Once (if) you get to that point you will have to bring in the mine engineers and safety experts, come up with a plan (about a year) and then you will know the mining costs. Here's an example of just the annual costs for a bigger operation - profit taking and financing costs will have to be added to that budget. (That last part is where you get paid)

A smaller operation will cost more per unit depending on conditions and management and whether you can get good employees to work for you. New smaller mining companies have a harder time getting experienced miners. Professional miners don't bet their future on a deposit - that's your job. The breakdown should give you an idea of how much the needed personnel and equipment will cost. Those are 2012 numbers at that site so figure on about 10% more to account for inflation.

Or you could prospect for a small rich placer. The developments costs will be much lower and you won't need as much equipment. Here's a standard model for developing a placer deposit. Those cost figures are from 1985 so figure on multiplying those figures by about 270% to account for inflation and regulatory delay costs.

Good luck and...

Heavy Pans

 

[Assembler]

A cheaper option is a DIY impact mill and DIY miller table. But that is micro scale. To make real money, your gonna have to spend some money.

If you are careful, you can pick up the above equipment used for about half of what I posted.

Very good tips there Mad Machinist. As a added note for going the used route on machines one could also find a used small jaw crusher and rebuild it. Be pa-pared for about 3 times the costs / time of any home machining that you maybe used to as you will have to take the parts to a shop that has big enough machines to rebuild it. The up side is you should have a better end machine then some thing built in China.....LOL.
By the way even a small jaw crusher can be hard to keep up with on a small scale operation on very steep ground until one finds material good enough for all the equipment talked about on this thread. A impact mill can be useful as one runs into enough material worth crushing as costs / time / wear are far higher then placer deposits.
Bigger operations have been funded with just one machine just take a look at mining history. One could spend a lot of money and not even recover ones costs just take a look at mining history.

 

[Assembler]

So what would be a good minimalist set up for prospecting and some small scale production? What’s the bare minimum? Is the 30k set up you posted best or is there a cheaper one? Also i like the period six mining videos on YouTube mad machinist and saltwatersevr post. Keep them coming please

The 'Bare minimum' should be based on the type / amount of lode ore one is looking at. Take a look at mining history.