Suction Mining Question

[Lori.]

Hi Guys:

Now that "suction mining" is permitted in CA, I want to make sure I have all the equipment I need.

I have a Jobe highbanker/dredge combo with a Jobe 2.5 hp pump (53 gpm with 84 ft. lift) but I was told that I would need a
more powerful pump in order to use a suction nozzle.

I called Armadillo and they recommended the GX50 Honda Engine & Pump because it has 100 gpm at 161 ft. lift which makes sense.

So I know I need the GX50 but I have 60 ft. of 1.5 inch hose. What size suction nozzle should I get so I can use the hose I have?

Thanks for your help.

Lori

 

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[kuger]

I missed the memo....when did we get dredging back?
...if your talking about "box less",etc. I have to caution you folks,you need to stop and think.....as of right now you can not get a permit to dredge...I realize you think you are getting around "dredge",BUT what in the hell makes you think that a Warden will think its OK,because its a word difference?I got news for you people that think you found a loop hole...you better hide well

 

[Doug Watson]

Well said.

 

[Lori.]

It's not dredging as that requires the use of a sluice box. It is not within the realm of the moratorium however to suction material into a catch basin using a suction nozzle. According to Stopher, it is legal and permitted. As Dave McCracken said:

"As defined by DFG’s own formal regulations, as long as we remove the sluice box from our motorized suction system, we are not operating a “suction dredge.” Said another way, there is an opportunity to use a motorized suction system to transfer high-grade gravel from one place in the river or creek to another location where the gravel can be more-easily processed in a separate system."

There has been quite a lot of debate about this “underwater suction gravel transfer” idea on the Internet forums since McCracken has gone public with it; and finally, someone asked Mark Stopher of DFG for the straight scoop:

Here are the official answers (2 January 2013):

“I carefully read (today) the information that McCracken provides on his website. I believe Dave McCracken’s description of the legal requirements and application of the regulations is accurate. If practiced as he describes, this is not a violation of the moratorium and is not prohibited.

There is no specific permit required and no seasonal restrictions. Since this is not suction dredging, neither the moratorium or our adopted regulations for suction dredging apply. It’s essentially a loophole in existing law. However, as McCracken notes, Fish and Game Code section 1602 could apply if the streambed alteration is substantial, that is, you create a big hole. My guess is that such a system will be less efficient, and less excavation will occur, than if you were using a suction dredge since there is no sluice box and miners will need to use some other system to sort through the material.”

Mark Stopher
Habitat Conservation Program Manager
California Department of Fish and Game
601 Locust Street
Redding, CA 96001

 

[kuger]

Lori,I strongly suggest you do just a little research,on this site alone about what a good reliable"friend",Stopher is to you and I.Head start........HE IS NOT.Stop and think about this....Stopher(aside from his past hatred proven by his action against dredging)is in "charge of putting together the regulations for us to supposedly someday maybe dredge.......no since the wonderful fellow that started all of this...decided to "save the day",and went public with this(only for his personal self serving benefit)many people have run the Stopher to ASK..."Mother May I?"This is the guy writhing the REGS!!!Sure he say's yea,go ahead....what will the judge think of that?Why did we have Seasons before...mandated by F&G,and permits...Revenue for F&G,why now would F&G,say,"Gee,ya outsmarted us,go for it".....??You will do as you wish,but at least ask yourself just these questions...use your head!!!!It WILL SAVE YOU A WHOLE BUNCH OF $$$$$ and head ache

Please read just this thread
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/d...097-shudupp-dredge-while-you-have-chance.html

 

[Lori.]

Thanks for your input Kuger. Putting Stopher aside, while there are some limits, there are several people on the Klamath suctioning material into smal catch basins which does not violate the current moratorium. While I see that it is a sensitive subject and you are moving forward at your own risk, the moratorium is against dredging into a sluice box rather than a catch basin. Dave's article sheds further light:

» Underwater Suction Gravel Transfer Systems

 

[kuger]

Lori....as I said you do as you wish...obviously you will anyway,and I dont really care,but why do you think Fish and Game will be OK with this?They will find a way to nail you!

 

[Lori.]

I'm sure they will. They all seem to be against miners finding anything worth money because they want it for themselves. I'm not sure what I will do but I know that highbanking and crevicing (my favorites) are looking better each day. I do know several favorite (very remote) spots on the creeks so you never know. ;-)

 

[kuger]

I'm sure they will. They all seem to be against miners finding anything worth money because they want it for themselves. I'm not sure what I will do but I know that highbanking and crevicing (my favorites) are looking better each day. I do know several favorite (very remote) spots on the creeks so you never know. ;-)

That is dead on right....I only want you to go armed with the facts and not what some self righteous ...person,tells you,and you end up with a fat ticket,cause its coming mark my words!!!

 

[Lori.]

Thanks Kuger.

 

[ywevis]

I just think it's funny that a state that was solely founded on it's gold, has birthed so many liberals to kill a recreational sport. I guess they rather you sit on your couch, get fat and watch tv.

 

[kuger]

I just think it's funny that a state that was solely founded on it's gold, has birthed so many liberals to kill a recreational sport. I guess they rather you sit on your couch, get fat and watch tv.

Yes,that is right....when the Gov. has you at their feet for everything they now have you under full control....this pendulum will hopefully right itself soon,or we will be in serious trouble......

 

[Oakview2]

I would take several precautions if you are planning using the workaround. Carry a copy of all the Stopher e-mails. Carry a copy of the legal description of a suction dredge as defined by the moratorium. Our club actually had a demonstration for Debbie Foote of the Groveland Forrest Service who is in charge of mining claims. I would pick a out of the way spot. PS.... I have never met Mr. Stopher, but I wouldn't trust him or any other DFG official. You will notice that none of his letters or e-mails are on official DFG letterhead. Just saying. I think Reed Lukens calls them the Dept of Fish and Shame I am not and attorney, nor a dredger, but I trying to get Kuger back in the water, so he can teach me how to dredge

 

[jog]

I just think it's funny that a state that was solely founded on it's gold, has birthed so many liberals to kill a recreational sport. I guess they rather you sit on your couch, get fat and watch tv.

First thing everyone needs to do is get away from calling it "recreational" It's mining no matter how you look at. Check the mining laws.......

 

[Oakview2]

The definiton of a California Liberal

A PERSON SO OPEN MINDED, THEIR BRAINS FALL OUT