Teen finds 17.6oz gold bar while swimming in German Alpine lake.

[FreeBirdTim]

Since the last person who owned the gold bar ground off the numbers, I would say they were a thief and had no morals at all. Therefore, it is morally right NOT to return it to that person, since they must have stolen the bar in the first place.

 

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[Nitric]

I'd love to see what would happen to all you "finders keepers" people who would try to bring that bar home on the plane.
Especially when the customs officer looks at all the file marks!
So, how does one get a gold bar like that out of Germany?
Send it in the mail?

No, Silly!! I'd throw it in a lake until I could figure out how to get it out of the country!


just in about 4 ft of water so I could find it later!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Gold Bar was found in the state of Bavaria in Germany, their laws in that state say finder and land owner share the find 50/50 unless a prior agreement was reached....,

That would be true for private land. But in this case, I'm assuming the lake is a public lake. So what would that German state's laws have for public land ?

And for purposes of this question , does the fact of under the water, versus out of the water, have any relevance? I mean, if it had been found on the shore of the lake (versus a few feet deep) does it really make any difference ?

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Send it in the mail?

Why not? Just sew it up inside a teddy bear. Works all the time for drug dealers!

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Or you could hollow out a Bible...

 

[Msbeepbeep]

I would be hanging onto it till I found out if I had to legally give it up. It helps if you have relatives in Germany.

 

[mcl]

Gold Bar was found in the state of Bavaria in Germany, their laws in that state say finder and land owner share the find 50/50 unless a prior agreement was reached. Gold was not found on land but rather in the water, and it is not Nazi era gold either,

The gold bar was found on public land (alpine lake). That it was in water is a moot point because it would not have been floating, it would have been resting on the lakebed -- and the common law of "everything above and below" applies here, thus it was found on public land. Now the sticking point is that Bavaria is the only German state without a law regarding "treasure troves", and so we must assume that the default federal "Fundrecht" (lost and found laws) applies. This law says that a finder has the obligation to return the item to the owner if the owner is known. If not the finder is only able to keep the item if it is worth less than 10 euros. Otherwise (and in this case) the finder must turn the item over to the police who have jurisdiction (Rosenheim, in this case). The owner has six months to claim the item, although in this case since the owner probably cannot be determined, I believe the state is allowed to claim the item in return for paying the reward that would have been owed by a private citizen. Now in this case, the fact that it was found on public land is important because there is a special formula for determining the amount that the individual is owed. The reward is 5% of the item's value up to the amount of 500 Euros (and if I am interpreting correctly, this means the item found has a value of up to 10,000 Euros). After this, the additional reward amount is assessed at 3% of the additional value. So, if I just round and say the bar is worth $20,000 USD, then current exchange says the bar is worth 17,934 Euros. The amount exceeding 10,000 Euros is 7,934 Euros, 3% of which is 238.02 Euros. Now adding this to the base reward of 500 Euros yields 738.02 Euros. Converting back to USD yields a total reward of $822.89. Now, since as I stated before, Bavaria has no "treasure trove" law which automatically makes such a find the property of the state or "hoard" law mandating a 50/50 split (as you mentioned), I believe that the state has the option to claim the item found on its land provided that a) no owner is found after six months and b) they are willing to pay the legal reward in the amount of $822.89 to the finder. However this last part is just my personal interpretation of the information on https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundrecht_(Deutschland) and https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schatzregal, which describe the German laws I have mentioned.

This is just my take on it, I could be wrong. Cheers.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

"what bar of gold officer, I know nothing about any bar of gold...."

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The gold bar was found on public land (alpine lake). That it was in water is a moot point because it would not have been floating, it would have been resting on the lakebed -- and the common law of "everything above and below" applies here, thus it was found on public land. Now the sticking point is that Bavaria is the only German state without a law regarding "treasure troves", and so we must assume that the default federal "Fundrecht" (lost and found laws) applies. This law says that a finder has the obligation to return the item to the owner if the owner is known. If not the finder is only able to keep the item if it is worth less than 10 euros. Otherwise (and in this case) the finder must turn the item over to the police .......

Ahhhh, thanx for all the great info MCL. So there IS laws that amount to L&F there. And this being public land, those laws would apply. Therefore the teen was "only following the law" (as any good ethical T'net md'r would likewise do).

Therefore all the people on this thread, that ...... .up till now said they would "keep it" and "keep quiet", will now come back on to change their views, recant, etc.... Just watch. Here they come shedding big alligator tears repenting of their having advocated lawless-ness !

 

[Brother Al]

Ahhhh, thanx for all the great info MCL. So there IS laws that amount to L&F there. And this being public land, those laws would apply. Therefore the teen was "only following the law" (as any good ethical T'net md'r would likewise do).

Therefore all the people on this thread, that ...... .up till now said they would "keep it" and "keep quiet", will now come back on to change their views, recant, etc.... Just watch. Here they come shedding big alligator tears repenting of their having advocated lawless-ness !

Nope......

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Nope......

Well then you will be banned from T'net for your advocation of law-less-ness. How can you sleep at night ? Tsk tsk. But not to worry: All the other persons who say they'd have simply kept it, will be on shortly to repent of their evil ways!

 

[pepperj]

Am I wrong or is 999.9 Gold more like 23-24 K

Your right, 24K. The 18K was the monitory value, lazy me should of written $18,000

 

[cw0909]

the bar has DEGUSSA stamped on it
http://www.goldbarsworldwide.com/PDF/HB_4_Degussa.pdf

md laws germany
German Metal Detecting Laws

 

[Brother Al]

Well then you will be banned from T'net for your advocation of law-less-ness. How can you sleep at night ? Tsk tsk. But not to worry: All the other persons who say they'd have simply kept it, will be on shortly to repent of their evil ways!

I seriously doubt both assertions. God bless us both,we simply disagree

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Well then you will be banned from T'net for your advocation of law-less-ness. How can you sleep at night ? Tsk tsk. But not to worry: All the other persons who say they'd have simply kept it, will be on shortly to repent of their evil ways!

Brother Al your in NO danger.....

 

[Oregon Viking]

This is what you do. Make a necklace
Now....you need to be a rapper...learn the lingo. Sup. Yo. That's my bling beee **** No one would bat an eye.
Go home.
Option 2. melt the gold into balls. Sprinkle oh....coconut flakes on them. Its candy!!
Go home.

 

[ivan salis]

ah I note FROM THE LINK ABOVE that the DEGUSSA AG ---COMPANY STAMP ---IS IN FACT A GERMAN MADE GOLD BAR STAMP -- THE STAMP WAS FIRST USED IN 1980 AND LAST USED IN 2005 --SO NOT NAZI GOLD --THUS THE BAR OF GOLD WAS MADE BETWEEN 1980 AND 2005 ... SO ITS NO OLDER THAN 1980 AT BEST

AND BY THEIR LOCAL LOST AND FIND LAWS ---SHE HAD TO TURN IT IN OR BREAK THE LAW -- NOW SINCE THE ID NUMBERS GROUND OFF ---ITS HIGHLY DOUBTFUL THAT THE LEGAL OWNER CAN BE FOUND ===SO THE STATE WILL JUST STEP IN AND CLAIM IT --AND THE NICE GIRL WHO DID THE GOVT MANDATED " RIGHT THING" WILL GET A MEASLY REWARD --OF THE VALUE OF THE 20,000 IN GOLD AS A "REWARD" -- ITS 822.89 NOT EVEN 5 % FINDERS FEE--- SAD THE STATE GETS 95.9 % THE FINDER ABOUT 4.1 %

 

[Nitric]

Well then you will be banned from T'net for your advocation of law-less-ness. How can you sleep at night ? Tsk tsk. But not to worry: All the other persons who say they'd have simply kept it, will be on shortly to repent of their evil ways!

See? I'm up all night now trying to figure out how everything is going to get paid. So that's no biggy! Would prob. sleep better with that gold bar! Ya, I could buy a new space pillow and one of those space beds, Probably sleep pretty good! And with my new light could see a things a little better too! Hey, I had to throw it all together somehow! just cracking jokes!

 

[Higgy]

I think its funny how all of us banter whenever one of these types of threads turn up. Fact is, there isn't a single one of us that would not like to have found that gold bar. On that I am sure we all agree. So how many of us would have turned it in? Try to remember that we are all like-minded people who gather here in TNet. We all think similarly, and we all have no problem keeping an unmarked gold ring or an NE Shilling.

Conversely, we can also believe that there are people out there that do not understand the meaning of wealth. There are people out there that would spend $20k like we would spend a twenty dollar bill. There are also people out there that are completely unaware of the value of things, or that valuable things are not held important. I would wager that the girl had no idea that the bar of gold was worth what it is worth. I'd like to think that the girl was following her own conscience.

Our hobby - our craft - is and always has been considered somewhat shady. I imagine other peoples viewpoints of us detector-types as being lowbrow money-grubbing opportunists. Why would anyone waste their valuable time poking around in the dirt for pennies and pulltabs! Crazy treasure hunters out there diggin' up mah lawn! Bunch of idiots like those guys on tv! Its apparent that WE are the only people who feel positive about people like US, and I'm thinking that makes us a demographic.

I have to admit that I'd have tried to get that bullion out of Germany somehow. Sorry but I would. I'd go buy a propane torch, a fry pan, a big thick knife, a hammer, and a nail-set punch. Using the hammer and knife, I'd cut the bar into as many pieces as I could possibly get. Then melt the individual pieces in the frypan using the torch. Use the punch to pound a hole through the center of each blob of gold, string it up on a chain, and VOOM: instant necklace. What gold bar?

 

[Muddyhandz]

Hey, I'm not trying to poopoo the idea of cashing in on a gold bar, it's just that I remember a few experiences over the years.
One, being back in high school (25 years ago) where my business ed. teacher...Mr.Scottie-dog used to tell us all the tricks to making money.
Anyway, he was in charge of the school trip to Jamaica in which I couldn't afford to go on. When the kids came back from the trip, they were all laughing at the old, bearded wood-gruff.
Apparently, he got busted at the border for trying to smuggle a whole pile of gold jewelry that he bought for cheap in Jamaica. This was well before 9/11.
What a great role model he was for us kids!
Even if you sold the bar in Germany, you would still have to explain coming home with $20,000 more cash than what you left with.
Not a big problem. It's just that Canada Customs makes sure they get every possible tax dollar out of you, so you better claim it or get a stiff fine on top of paying high taxes.
I think Higgy is on to something here!