The "12-21" method (long)

Knipper

Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2005
48
34
Rochester, Minnesota
Detector(s) used
Minelab Explorer SE, Minelab Excalibur II Troy Shadow X-5
The "12-21" method (long)

I don't know if anyone has ever heard of or used this detecting technique, but it was taught to me by a dealer friend back when VLF/TR detectors had been out a while. It worked unbelievably well in determining good finds including some very deep signals. I'd like to share it with the group.

The "12-21" method is a discriminating technique that is used in the all metal or pinpoint mode only. That's right, you DON'T set your machine to tune out junk, and only use the all metal mode. Back then, the all metal mode was not 'automatically tuned' and once set to a stable, ground balanced even, low threshold of sound you could start using this technique.

Once a signal was located and pinpointed, (switch to all metal or pinpoint mode if you're not already there...) mark the center of the target on the ground with a stick or non metallic object (a small colored plastic dime sized disc works well). Then make sure you have an audible, stable audio tone in all metal or pinpoint mode. You then move the edge of the coil to the right of the target about 6 inches from where it was centered. Re tune the detector while the coil is flat to the ground, so you get an even threshold tone. (Always keep the coil tight to the ground, or 'scrub it'). SLOWLY move the coil toward the target center. When the threshold tone just starts to increase, STOP...and note where the edge of your coil is. That is the first signal, or Number 1. ( When you just start doing this, placing a small stick EXACTLY where the edge of your coil is when the sound started to increase helps.)

Then move the outside edge of the coil six inches or so the the LEFT of target center and move the coil slowly toward center. Again, when the sound JUST STARTS to increase, stop and note where the the edge of the coil is. That is the second signal or Number 2. If the stopping points indicate the edges of the coil overlapped, even slightly....DIG! If the points where the signals started from either direction did NOT overlap, it is junk.

The reason its referred to as the "12-21" method is that the digit '1' represents where the first signal started and the digit '2' is the start of the second signal. Assuming you always start right of center to get the first signal, the pattern would be illustrated by the number 12, which shows that the signals overlapped. If you get the number 21, then the signals didn't overlap.

(Trying to explain this in writing may come across as confusing....the main thing to remember is noting if the edges of the coil overlap when the target signal starts increasing your machines audio while approaching target center from opposite directions)

Why does this work? Because the field of a non-conductive target (bottle cap, foil and yes, even a pulltab) is wider than that of a good target (gold, silver, brass, copper). You generally won't start to get an audio increase on a good target in all metal mode until your coil diameter is OVER the target.

This technique will only work with your machine if it has some kind of non-autotuned all metal mode. Again, the older VLF machines had a mode like this used for searching AND pinpointing. Today's detectors usually have some kind of pinpoint mode that doesn't constantly autotune. If you only have auto tune in all modes, unfortunately, this just won't work.

Now....I can tell you that with practice, this technique will locate gold rings and leave pull tabs in the ground! I've tested it thoroughly and will attest to that. I did get fooled a few times on broken off tabs on the old 'pull tab rings' and on a few very tiny pieces of foil,, but if you pinpoint accurately (a MUST!) and make sure the coil edges DID overlap and keep your coil tight to the ground when checking the signal, you will most likely recover a 'good' conductive target. It may not always be a coin or a ring, but it will not be a nail, bottle cap, full pull tab or wadded up piece of foil.

I have to admit, that when the higher tech detectors came out, I stopped using this because I got lazy. However, I'm going to start trying it again as my detector does have a non-autotuning pinpoint mode.
If this works for you jewelry hunters, the junk side of your coin apron will have a lot fewer pull tabs in it which means less unnecessary holes dug!

Let me know if you have questions...

Knipper
 

Upvote 0

bakergeol

Bronze Member
Feb 4, 2004
1,268
176
Colorado
Detector(s) used
GS5 X-5 GMT
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

Hi Knipper
I believe the method you described was for distinguishing ferrous versus non ferrous items in all metal mode. The following was copied from the Nautilus website by Jbird in discussion of the Nautilus in all metal mode. This may be easier to understand.

"An all metal mode can be ground balanced to eliminate the sound of ground minerals but other than that no filtering takes place. This allows you to hear the full audio effects of a target. Iron targets read wider than the coils diameter. A conductive target will not read wider than the coil although a coors beer can will usually read the full diameter of the coil. Smaller conductive targets will read less width than medium sized conductive targets. Coins and other coin sized targets of similar conductance tend to read just in the center of the coil although the 'width' of the audio sound can vary depending on some other factors. Deeper targets audio is weaker to indicate depth. An oblong target, like a 20 penny nail will not only read wider than the coil (as iron) but will read long in one direction and short in the other. The more conductive coins like dimes and quarters tend to give a signal right in the very center of the coil, a very narrow signal. So the key to making good use of the Nautilus Dual Mode system is to listen primarily to the all metal mode to determine the targets depth, size, shape, and conductance."

The effect for iron has been known since the BFO days as a rudimentary way to distinguish iron. By the way to see the problems? we have in discrimination the following is a conductivity chart with high conductive items on top(from the Troy Shadow forum)

Large Iron***
Dollar
Half Dollar
Quarter? ? ? ? ? High Conductivity
Dime
$20 Gold
Copper Penny
Barber Dime
Large Class Ring (10K)
Half Dime

__________________________
Zinc Penny
$10 Gold
Screwcap
Indian Head Penny
Small Class Ring (10K)
$5 Gold? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Medium Conductivity
Square Pull Tab
Thin Ring (Silver)
Thick Wedding Band (10K)
Pull Tab Ring
$2.5 Gold
Round Pull Tab

__________________________
Nickel
$1 Gold
Medium Rings (14K)
Tongue of Pull Tab? ? ? ? ? ?low conductivity
Pull Tab Ring
Very Thin Rings (14K)
Foil
Nails
?

*** Large iron can be picked up all through the discrimination spectrum. Iron can sound off at any level on the above chart. This is true for ANY metal detector. Any detector will sound off on an iron bowling ball regardless of how you have the DISC control set.



George
 

R

rvbvetter

Guest
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

My first detector, circa 1978 was a VLF/TR. And for us old timers, what has been mentioned here, was pretty much rudimentry then. The most basic version was to tell a can, or iron from a coin. Signal being wider than the coil for the can or iron. Still today i infasize that to people, that tell me they dug down a foot to only find a soda can. Another trick we used on deeper iffy signals to determine if it was good or bad. Was that because TR/disc. didn't cancel ground minerals, thus having less depth than VLF/All metal. Would be,( after determining the center of the signal ) to put the coil directly above the center of the signal on the ground and switch to TR. Then slowly slide the coil away. And whether the tone got louder or stayed the same determined if the target was good or bad. It worked to a better degree, than it did to have the coil on the side in TR and sliding it over the target. HH
 

OP
OP
Knipper

Knipper

Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2005
48
34
Rochester, Minnesota
Detector(s) used
Minelab Explorer SE, Minelab Excalibur II Troy Shadow X-5
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

rvbvetter....

That really brings back the memories! We called that second method you described "Reverse Discrimination", where you tuned to a threshold right over the target, then moved it away. As you said, if the audio disappeared or was reduced, dig the target. I recall that worked very well to I.D. deep targets.

We sure knew how to squeeze performance out of those old machines!

Knipper
 

DMF

Tenderfoot
Sep 6, 2005
5
0
Macon, Georgia
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

Knipper,

If you're still around, thanks for the tip. I use the "reverse discrimination" technique but I'll try yours tommorrow. Got any more tips for an old fart that still uses a VLF/TR?

Sorry about the late post everyone. Just found treasurenet.com when I retired 2 months ago and drug out my dinosaur MD once again. I was surfing posts on VLF's looking for shortcomings in trying to decide if I wanted to upgrade to an Ace 250 or not. I mostly coin shoot in old lawns, parks, churches, and schoolyards. I assume it would speed up my hunting somewhat but give little other benefit? Would it be worth changing to the 250 or should I go for a better one? (Retired = Limited Funds)

Donnie in Macon, GA
Garrett American AM-2 (circa 1983)
 

bk

Bronze Member
Jan 19, 2005
1,423
65
SE Minnesota
Detector(s) used
Minelab Explorer SE pro, Minelab Explorer XS, Garrett Freedom II (3), Garrett pro-pointer.
Primary Interest:
Metal Detecting
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

DMF, I know knipper, I'll tell him about your post. That method is really cool, and it really works.
By the way, I remember the old Garrett American. Nice little machine. I still use a Garrett Freedom II. (1986).
 

Nov 8, 2004
14,582
11,942
Alamos,Sonora,Mexico
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

HOLA kiddies:? Sheehs, I started with a Gardner, cost $900 us then? (1950)? it still can give modern detectors a? run? for their money.? I still use the old Garrett ADS 7 with the? hound dog attachments, but then I look for caches..

Our modern detectorists have no idea how much detectors have progressed, especially in gorund balancing.

Incidentally, I use reverse discriminatio to ID hot rocks.

p.s. this is my type of hunting ground.

Jose de La Mancha? ( I tilt windmills )
 

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R

rvbvetter

Guest
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

How well does the attachments work, you ever find a cache with it?
My first 2 detectors were the Garrett ADS. First one VLF/TR Deepseeker, Then the ADS 7.
I always thought about getting the attachments, but never could justify it. Just a coin hunter.
HH
 

Leon

Silver Member
Jul 2, 2004
3,836
24
Indy
Detector(s) used
Cz3d
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

Sounds very interesting, I'll have to give it a try...
I've been dig'n all foil, and nickle signals, only to find foil & nickles...
You would think as many as I have dug, I would have found a few rings, something gold anyway, but no such luck..
There are so many pull tab signals in the parks I hunt, I wouldn't know where to even start to dig, maybe this will give me an advantage, and not have to dig them all...
Thanks for tip, & Happy hunting~
 

DMF

Tenderfoot
Sep 6, 2005
5
0
Macon, Georgia
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

I didn't have much time today but I gave the "12-21 discrimination technique" a try for about half an hour on 10 targets. It worked 8 out of 10 times. A piece of foil wrapper fooled the technique once as did an old Coke bottle cap once. It identified two pop tops and 1 screw cap as trash that my discriminator indicated were good targets. It also indicated a an aluminum washer that was about the same size and thickness as a mens thin wedding ring as a good target after the machines discrimination said it was junk. I was impressed. I would have been even more impressed had the "ring" been silver or gold.

I only found 2 quarters and 4 pennies but finding a bunch wasn't the point on this hunt. The technique slowed me down significantly (and made me have to squat twice as much - which my fat ol' gut needs anyway), but I think with practice I will be digging less trash while covering the same amount of ground in about the same time I usually spend covering it.

For my detector (Garrett AM-2 VLF/TR), my purposes (coin shooting), and the places I mostly use it (trashy parks and church yards); I think that the best way for me to utilize the technique is to continue to use Ground Elimination mode and reverse discrimination (for maximum depth), then use the "12-21" to check my so-called positive hits in order to reduce the pop top and pull tab digging. When I hunt swimming holes and beaches where rings might be found I'll be using "Ground Elimination" mode and the "12-21 discrimination" on all targets so I won't miss all those rings my detector has been lying about.

Thanks again Knipper wherever you are. Great Tip. I think it's going to work great for me.
 

OP
OP
Knipper

Knipper

Jr. Member
Jan 21, 2005
48
34
Rochester, Minnesota
Detector(s) used
Minelab Explorer SE, Minelab Excalibur II Troy Shadow X-5
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

DMF,

Thanks for the kind words. Sorry for the late response...I just got back from detecting in England!

I wish I could take credit for 'discovering' this technique, but it was passed on to me by Art Steinke, a dealer up in the Twin cities. As I said, it is not 100%, but then neither is the most advanced detector out there. I too was impressed with its accuracy in determining the target value in just all-metal mode! Its slower than letting the machine do all the work for you, but on really deep targets, it can make that little bit of difference and increase your good finds! I just wish the manufacturers would incorporate a non-auto tuning all metal mode in their current detectors as an option, as well as allowing for a threshold sound instead of always silent until you hit a target. Its essential you hear some noise to begin with to make the sound comparisons.We dug some VERY deep good coins that way!
I don't think this works as well with a VCO (variable pitch and volume) manual pinpoint mode, as it did with the old manual 'all metal' mode, but I'm still experimenting. I do know I tried it with the VCO all metal pinpoint mode in England on my Shadow X-5 to help further identify deep iron signals that would show up in discriminate, and it saved me a lot of digging. Some of those deep, large iron/steel targets from broken plows and farm equipment sounded just like a five or six inch deep coin or conductive target. When the soil you're dealing with consists of 1/3 flint rock by volume, you are grateful for not having to dig a lot of unnecessary trash signals!

I still have yet to experiment with 'reverse discrimination' on my Shadow. Theoretically, this should still work and once having pinpointed and auto-tuned over the target, the machine should give a positive sound when moved AWAY from the target if it is trash and stay silent if its good.
I'll keep you posted.
Knipper
 

DMF

Tenderfoot
Sep 6, 2005
5
0
Macon, Georgia
Re: The "12-21" method (long)

Welcome back home Knipper. Find anything good in England?

I've been using your technique with my old Garrett Groundhog AM-2 this past week and it has saved me from digging some junk. It seems to help a lot where there are a lot of shallow pop tops and pull tabs. I'm going to a circa 1850's horse racing track this weekend. I hope it works as well on the deep stuff as it does on the surface junk. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks Again,
Donnie
 

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