The Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud #5

[EE THr]

Art---

You refuse to answer the question of, "What credentialed professionsl organization do you approve of, to send the LRL schematics to, for evaluation?"

It pertains to "Who do you trust now," not after they evaluate them.

If you don't trust any properly credentialed professional organization, then just say so. Since you refuse to approve of one now, it appears that you don't trust any of them. Do you?

 

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[aarthrj3811]

~EE~

As I recall, you have stated twice that the pointer does not move by itself.
There are no "electronics" components, used in the free-swinging type of devices commonly referred to as "LRLs," which are capable of causing anything to move.
If you think there is, then exactly which electronic component does this, and how?
And also include your idea of exactly how the "material being sought after" supposedly aids in effecting movement of the pointer.
Thank you.

Art---

You refuse to answer the question of, "What credentialed professionsl organization do you approve of, to send the LRL schematics to, for evaluation?"
It pertains to "Who do you trust now," not after they evaluate them.
If you don't trust any properly credentialed professional organization, then just say so. Since you refuse to approve of one now, it appears that you don't trust any of them. Do you?

Sorry that you can not remember the answers
No..It is what you are claiming..this has been discussed may times so go find the answers..Art
Please add this to one of your personal beliefs lists..Art

 

[EE THr]

Art---

As I recall, you have stated twice that the pointer does not move by itself.

But then you say---

The electronics and the sought after material makes the device swing.

There are no "electronics" components, used in the free-swinging type of devices commonly referred to as "LRLs," which are capable of causing anything to move.

If you think there is, then exactly which electronic component does this, and how?


And also include your idea of exactly how the "material being sought after" supposedly aids in effecting movement of the pointer.

Thank you.

 

[EE THr]

Art---

If you don't trust any properly credentialed professional organization, then just say so. Since you refuse to approve of one now, it appears that you don't trust any of them. Do you?

Well do you?

 

[EE THr]

Please add this to one of your personal beliefs lists..Art

OK.

Done---

The Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud

1. There is no standard electronics explanation for the devices ever working.
2. The movement of the swivel pointer or rods is not powered by the devices.
3. Makers and owners of these devices refuse to take a random double blind test.
4. LRL promoters refuse to approve of a credentialed professional organization at which to have their devices or schematics evaluated.

The proponent's only rebuttal is that they find what they are looking for. This, however is not being contested by items #1-4. The statement of this list is that the electronics add-ons, to what is merely a dowsing device, are not necessary, and are only there to charge high prices. This makes their reports of allegedly finding stuff a total Straw Man type of fallacy, and thus void as rebuttals to this list. Besides, just saying you found something, or publishing non-verifiable "testimonials" is not proof. A random double-blind test, fully documented by an unbiased observer, would be real proof.

8)

 

[EE THr]

Art---

If you are having trouble thinking of possible credentialed professional organizations to approve of, for your schematics to be sent to for evaluation, I made a list here that you may want to choose from---

Caltech, MIT, NYIT, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology, and Rochester Institute of Technology.

On the other hand, if you don't think that these organizations know enough about electronics to evaluate your schematics, just say so, and I can list some other, even better ones.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Gee EE...All the proof of your beliefs system is in this thread..Why do you keep repeating the same old questions that have been answered. Is this just an attempt to place inaccurate and harassing information on here or do you not remember reading the real facts?..There is no proof of fraud anywhere...may be you would like to discuss this statement from your bogus list

The proponent's only rebuttal is that they find what they are looking for. This, however is not being contested by items #1-4. The statement of this list is that the electronics add-ons, to what is merely a dowsing device, are not necessary, and are only there to charge high prices. This makes their reports of allegedly finding stuff a total Straw Man type of fallacy, and thus void as rebuttals to this list. Besides, just saying you found something, or publishing non-verifiable "testimonials" is not proof. A random double-blind test, fully documented by an unbiased observer, would be real proof.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Please hurry with this project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schematic
A schematic diagram represents the elements of a system using abstract, graphic symbols rather than realistic pictures. A schematic usually omits all details that are not relevant to the information the schematic is intended to convey, and may add unrealistic elements that aid comprehension. For example, a subway map intended for riders may represent a subway station with a dot; the dot doesn't resemble the actual station at all but gives the viewer information without unnecessary visual clutter. A schematic diagram of a chemical process uses symbols to represent the vessels, piping, valves, pumps, and other equipment of the system, emphasizing their interconnection paths and suppressing physical details. In an electronic circuit diagram, the layout of the symbols may not resemble the layout in the physical circuit. In the schematic diagram, the symbolic elements are arranged to be more easily interpreted by the viewer. Main article: circuit diagram
In the electrical industry, a schematic diagram is often used to describe the design of equipment. Schematic diagrams are often used for the maintenance and repair of electronic and electromechanical systems. Original schematics were done by hand, using standardized templates or pre-printed adhesive symbols, but today Electrical CAD software is often used.


The circuit diagram for a 4 bit TTL counter, a type of state machine
In electronic design automation, until the 1980s schematics were virtually the only formal representation for circuits. More recently, with the progress of computer technology, other representations were introduced and specialized computer languages were developed, since with the explosive growth of the complexity of electronic circuits, traditional schematics are becoming less practical. For example, hardware description languages are indispensable for modern digital circuit design.
Schematics for electronic circuits are prepared by designers using EDA (Electronic Design Automation) tools called schematic capture tools or schematic entry tools. These tools go beyond simple drawing of devices and connections. Usually they are integrated into the whole IC design flow and linked to other EDA tools for verification and simulation of the circuit under design.
In electric power systems design, a schematic drawing called a one-line diagram is frequently used to represent substations, distribution systems or even whole electrical power grids. These diagrams simplify and compress the details that would be repeated on each phase of a three-phase system, showing only one element instead of three. Electrical diagrams for switchgear often have common device functions designate by standard function numbers.
Schematics in repair manuals
Schematic diagrams are used extensively in repair manuals to help users understand the interconnections of parts, and to provide graphical instruction to assist in taking apart and rebuilding mechanical assemblies. Many automotive and motorcycle repair manuals devote a significant number of pages to schematic diagrams.
I sure hope you do not plan on any answers about if they will find treasure...Art

 

[EE THr]

Is this just an attempt to place inaccurate and harassing information on here or do you not remember reading the real facts?..


Wrong, Art. You never answered who you approve of to evaluate the LRL schematics.

...may be you would like to discuss this statement from your bogus list

The proponent's only rebuttal is that they find what they are looking for. This, however is not being contested by items #1-4. The statement of this list is that the electronics add-ons, to what is merely a dowsing device, are not necessary, and are only there to charge high prices. This makes their reports of allegedly finding stuff a total Straw Man type of fallacy, and thus void as rebuttals to this list. Besides, just saying you found something, or publishing non-verifiable "testimonials" is not proof. A random double-blind test, fully documented by an unbiased observer, would be real proof.

What's to discuss. It stands true as it is.

You are merely trying to create a diversion away from the questions.

You also never answered my question about how "the electronics" contacts the target, and how the target aids in "moving" the LRL pointer. Sounds like you're saying "it's magic."

You will need to do better than that.

Just more of your diversionary tactics.

Don't worry, the questions won't just go away....

8)

 

[aarthrj3811]

~EE~

Just more of your diversionary tactics.
Don't worry, the questions won't just go away....

Whats wrong EE..Did someone turn your world upside down?

 

[EE THr]

~EE~

Just more of your diversionary tactics.
Don't worry, the questions won't just go away....

Whats wrong EE..Did someone turn your world upside down?

Thanks for verifying number twelve in the list on A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud.

8)

 

[aarthrj3811]

I guess EE has changed the rules

A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

Posted Yesterday at 02:52:34 PM

Quote
A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

1. There is no standard electronics explanation for the devices ever working.

2. The movement of the swivel pointer or rods is not powered by the devices.

3. Makers and owners of these devices refuse to take a random double-blind test, even with rewards offered of one million dollars to prove they work, and twenty five thousand dollars for scoring only 70% success.

4. LRL promoters refuse to approve of a credentialed professional organization at which to have their devices or schematics evaluated, such as a university or government agency.

5. LRL promoters refuse to approve of a, or suggest their own, protocol for a fair random double-blind test.

6. LRL promoters refuse to state whether their devices are dowsers, dowsing enhancers, or all-electronically operated units.

7. LRL promoters refuse to state the average percentage of success, under optimal test conditions, that their devices reliably have.

8. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why there are no news stories and pictures of treasures being found with LRLs, like there are for standard metal detectors, both in the Main Stream Media and here on the forum. The point here is that they make the claim that LRLs can find much more treasure than conventional metal detectors, because they can search more ground faster due to the "Long Range" of the LRL devices. But common sense says that if this were so, then there would be way more news stories about them and the treasure they found, instead of...zero news reports.

9. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why the LRL makers, and promoters, and their alleged testimonials, are the only people who claim to have found anything with them.

10. LRL promoters refuse to approve of any local metal detector club or local high school science class doing a random double-blind demonstration using their devices.

11. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why their devices would be worth anything, if they cannot achieve a reliable success rate of only 70% under controlled test conditions. The point being that a controlled test would eliminate any possible interference, which is said by the LRLers to always be a possible problem, and it would reduce the infinite possibility of target locations at various distances, and in 360 degrees of direction, down to only ten, exact and visable, possible target locations, making it much easier to succeed in a test than "in the field." (In a test with a series of ten tries, 50% overall success would be the average rate for simply guessing, without any equipment at all!)

12. LRL promoters mainstay response, to these issues, or any other challenge to their claims, is to insult the challenger, or give a nonsensical reply, rather than offer responsive data. When someone does this, it is an indication that they have no rational data to offer.


Note: The LRL promoters' only rebuttal to any and all of these, is that they claim to find what they are looking for. This, however is not being contested by this list. The statement of this list is that the electronics add-ons, to what is merely a dowsing device, are not necessary, and are only there to try and justify charging very high prices. This makes their continuous reports of allegedly finding stuff a total Straw Man type of fallacy, and thus void as rebuttals to this list. Besides, just saying you found something, or publishing non-verifiable "testimonials" is not proof. A random double-blind test, fully documented by an unbiased observer, is the ultimate real proof of any device.


These facts have never been rationally refuted.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

Reply To This Topic #4 Posted Yesterday at 04:12:37 PM

Quote Modify Remove

~EE
Quote

~Typical nonsense reply, confirming #12, in the Original Post.

P.S. This is the LRL section of a Treasure Hunting forum, not an amateur sick-ology forum.
"The level of sanity or insanity of the subject matter, determines the level of sanity or insanity of the two-way communication attainable in any discussion."

Quote

12. LRL promoters mainstay response, to these issues, or any other challenge to their claims, is to insult the challenger, rather than offer responsive data. When someone does this, it is an indication that they have no rational data to offer
Thank You..That did not take much time..I answered no question but you confirm that #12 was true.
Could please tell us where the proof of fraud is?

In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud, but there have also been fraudulent "discoveries", e.g. in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #5 Posted Yesterday at 04:31:54 PM

You responded, just like it says in #12. Is there a word of phrase in there that you don't fully understand?

If a person aggressively convinces another person to spend money on a fraudulent product, by using false statements and false testimonies, that is causing "damage," in legal terms.

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #6 Posted Yesterday at 04:48:10 PM

So..Now asking a question and you answering the question is proof of fraud..Or could it be that insulting you is the proof of fraud.

So...So now ..Asking a question convinced you to spend your money on a fraudulent product? Which LRL or MFD did you buy...
Thank you for the repeat

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #7 Posted Yesterday at 04:54:57 PM

Well, Art, first you made the nonsensical statement in the first line of what I quoted, above.
And you asked about fraud. In my statement about fraud, I made no reference to anyone in particular.
So what's your beef?

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #9 Posted Yesterday at 05:59:48 PM

I never claimed that your asking me a question convinced me to buy anything, did I?You confirmed this point---
"12. LRL promoters mainstay response, to these issues, or any other challenge to their claims, is to insult the challenger, or give a nonsensical reply, rather than offer responsive data. When someone does this, it is an indication that they have no rational data to offer."
Your replies do not offer any rational data about the topic, but are merely arguments for argument's sake. That's included in number twelve, too, as nonsense.

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #10 Posted Yesterday at 06:11:12 PM

~EE!
Quote

Your replies do not offer any rational data about the topic, but are merely arguments for argument's sake. That's included in number twelve, too, as nonsense.

Thank you...So I convince you that #12 was nonsense and not proof of fraud..ouch..I hurt my hand patting myself on the back for getting #12 out of the way.

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #10 Posted Yesterday at 06:11:12 PM
~EE!

Quote
Your replies do not offer any rational data about the topic, but are merely arguments for argument's sake. That's included in number twelve, too, as nonsense.

Thank you...So I convince you that #12 was nonsense and not proof of fraud..ouch..I hurt my hand patting myself on the back for getting #12 out of the way.

Do you want be to help you understand #11 next?

11. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why their devices would be worth anything, if they cannot achieve a reliable success rate of only 70% under controlled test conditions. The point being that a controlled test would eliminate any possible interference, which is said by the LRLers to always be a possible problem, and it would reduce the infinite possibility of target locations at various distances, and in 360 degrees of direction, down to only ten, exact and visable, possible target locations, making it much easier to succeed in a test than "in the field." (In a test with a series of ten tries, 50% overall success would be the average rate for simply guessing, without any equipment at all!)

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #11 Posted Yesterday at 06:17:56 PM
Quote from: EE THr on Yesterday at 04:31:54 PM

Quote from: aarthrj3811 on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PM

In criminal law, a fraud is an intentional deception made for personal gain or to damage another individual; the related adjective is fraudulent. The specific legal definition varies by legal jurisdiction. Fraud is a crime, and also a civil law violation. Defrauding people or entities of money or valuables is a common purpose of fraud, but there have also been fraudulent "discoveries", e.g. in science, to gain prestige rather than immediate monetary gain.

If a person aggressively convinces another person to spend money on a fraudulent product, by using false statements and false testimonies, that is causing "damage," in legal terms.


Actually, Art, you might want to re-think your position, claims, and recommendations, before Catherine Masto comes looking for you.

I added this
Catherine Cortez Masto for Nevada's Attorney General
Attorney General Catherine Cortez Masto has worked hard to keep Nevadans and their families safe. Under her administration, working with local law enforcement agencies, crime is down in Nevada's major urban areas. She has earned a reputation as a tough, no-nonsense prosecutor who has zero tolerance for those who would seek to do harm to the residents of the Silver State. Please click on the tabs below to find out more about what she has accomplished, and the goals she has for the future of our great state. You can also volunteer to help on the campaign or make a much appreciated contribution.

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud

Reply To This Topic #13 Posted Yesterday at 06:51:17 PM
~EE~
Quote
Actually, Art, you might want to re-think your position, claims, and recommendations, before Catherine Masto comes looking for you.
I am shaking in my boots...Is that #13?
Art---
Quote
Find out what words don't you understand in #11.

Then use a dictionary!
Quote
11. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why their devices would be worth anything, if they cannot achieve a reliable success rate of only 70% under controlled test conditions

Because they work in the field like they were designed to do.. We do our own controlled tests in front of family, friends, treasure hunters and anyone else that is there
Quote
The point being that a controlled test would eliminate any possible interference, which is said by the LRLers to always be a possible problem

Yes there is a lot of problems in the field..You have to learn the ways around them.
Quote
, and it would reduce the infinite possibility of target locations at various distances, and in 360 degrees of direction,


That is not a problem..The device and treasure hunting methods do the job
Quote
down to only ten, exact and visable, possible target locations, making it much easier to succeed in a test than "in the field."

Yes our controlled test conditions are similar to that.
Quote
(In a test with a series of ten tries, 50% overall success would be the average rate for simply guessing, without any equipment at all!)

Wow..No tools at all

Could you point us to a web site that confirms that?...Art
Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #14 Posted Yesterday at 07:04:13 PM

Quote from: aarthrj3811 on Yesterday at 06:51:17 PM

Quote
11. LRL promoters cannot provide a rational answer to why their devices would be worth anything, if they cannot achieve a reliable success rate of only 70% under controlled test conditions

Because they work in the field like they were designed to do.. We do our own controlled tests in front of family, friends, treasure hunters and anyone else that is there

You alledge that you do that, and you alledge that you are successful. Yet you are never able to prove your claims. So they will remain only claims, and nothing more. So continuing to make mere claims, is further proof of #12---nonsense.
Quote
The point being that a controlled test would eliminate any possible interference, which is said by the LRLers to always be a possible problem

Yes there is a lot of problems in the field..You have to learn the ways around them.

Supposedly. Just more empty claims.
Quote
, and it would reduce the infinite possibility of target locations at various distances, and in 360 degrees of direction,


That is not a problem..The device and treasure hunting methods do the job

Ditto.
Quote
down to only ten, exact and visable, possible target locations, making it much easier to succeed in a test than "in the field."

Yes our controlled test conditions are similar to that.

If that is true, then why do you refuse to state your supposed success rate percentage? That is being self-contradictory. More empty claims.
Quote
(In a test with a series of ten tries, 50% overall success would be the average rate for simply guessing, without any equipment at all!)

Wow..No tools at all
Could you point us to a web site that confirms that?...Art

Do the math. Look up "odds," "percentages," and "statistics."

Just more unsubstantiated nonsense.
Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #15 Posted Yesterday at 07:28:56 PM

Quote
Just more unsubstantiated nonsense.

Thank You for confirming the both #11 and # 12 are nonsense and not proofs of fraud.
Quote
10. LRL promoters refuse to approve of any local metal detector club or local high school science class doing a random double-blind demonstration using their devices.

No answer needed..There is no way that you can claim that it is proof of fraud..So it also classified as nonsense ...Art
I have done Dowsing Demonstrations for FFA classes..Does that count?

I sure hope that there are a few harder claims to disprove..

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #16 Posted Yesterday at 08:27:03 PM
e from: aarthrj3811 on Yesterday at 07:28:56 PM

Quote
Just more unsubstantiated nonsense.

Thank You for confirming the both #11 and # 12 are nonsense and not proofs of fraud.

You must be having hallucinations or something, if that's what you think I said. Oh, I know, you didn't get that dictionary, did you! Terrible.
Quote
10. LRL promoters refuse to approve of any local metal detector club or local high school science class doing a random double-blind demonstration using their devices.

The concept there is obvious. It just takes a little common sense---You avoid being tested, or having your LRLs evaluated, by simply not approving of any credible organization to do it. What a lame excuse. And so obvious, too. Any normal person would be ashamed to pull those miserable excuses in public!

No answer needed..There is no way that you can claim that it is proof of fraud..So it also classified as nonsense ...Art

I believe in letting people think for themselves. I just point out the facts. Any person of average or higher intelligence can see right through your charades.

I have done Dowsing Demonstrations for FFA classes..Does that count?

FFA---Is that the Farting Fogies Association? Besides, this isn't about your alleged dowsing shenanigans, it's about your supposed "Long Range Locators."

I sure hope that there are a few harder claims to disprove..

You have disproved nothing whatsoever. If you were any good at disproving anything, you would also be good at proving things---but you think that proving your own claims would be so terrible that you refuse to do it. (Actually it would be awful, because you would fail.)

I don't think your pitiful attempts to confuse the issues have convinced anyone, and certainly not me!

 

[fenixdigger]

I don't know Art, From the emails, I think lately they have really convinced even the undecided. Good job Sparkys (and wanna be sparky)

 

[aarthrj3811]

Hey LT...Just trying to stay ahead of their tricks..have you noticed that sometimes you answer a post and later the post you answered disappears or the wording has been changed? Have you noticed how many of the threads have been locked?..just trying to keep the twisting and spinning from happening so much..Art

 

[aarthrj3811]

Re: The Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud #5
Reply To This Topic #30 Posted Jul 04, 2011, 01:43:11 PM
Please hurry with this project
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schematic
A schematic diagram represents the elements of a system using abstract, graphic symbols rather than realistic pictures. A schematic usually omits all details that are not relevant to the information the schematic is intended to convey, and may add unrealistic elements that aid comprehension. For example, a subway map intended for riders may represent a subway station with a dot; the dot doesn't resemble the actual station at all but gives the viewer information without unnecessary visual clutter. A schematic diagram of a chemical process uses symbols to represent the vessels, piping, valves, pumps, and other equipment of the system, emphasizing their interconnection paths and suppressing physical details. In an electronic circuit diagram, the layout of the symbols may not resemble the layout in the physical circuit. In the schematic diagram, the symbolic elements are arranged to be more easily interpreted by the viewer. Main article: circuit diagram
In the electrical industry, a schematic diagram is often used to describe the design of equipment. Schematic diagrams are often used for the maintenance and repair of electronic and electromechanical systems. Original schematics were done by hand, using standardized templates or pre-printed adhesive symbols, but today Electrical CAD software is often used.
Re: The Big Four Proofs of LRLs Fraud #5
Reply To This Topic #36 Posted Yesterday at 08:16:48 AM
Quote Modify Remove

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #5 Posted Yesterday at 04:31:54 PM
Quote
You responded, just like it says in #12. Is there a word of phrase in there that you don't fully understand?

If a person aggressively convinces another person to spend money on a fraudulent product, by using false statements and false testimonies, that is causing "damage," in legal terms.

Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #6 Posted Yesterday at 04:48:10 PM
Quote
So..Now asking a question and you answering the question is proof of fraud..Or could it be that insulting you is the proof of fraud.
Quote
So...So now ..Asking a question convinced you to spend your money on a fraudulent product? Which LRL or MFD did you buy...
Thank you for the repeat
Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #7 Posted Yesterday at 04:54:57 PM
Quote
Well, Art, first you made the nonsensical statement in the first line of what I quoted, above.
And you asked about fraud. In my statement about fraud, I made no reference to anyone in particular.
So what's your beef?
Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #9 Posted Yesterday at 05:59:48 PM
Quote
I never claimed that your asking me a question convinced me to buy anything, did I?You confirmed this point---
"12. LRL promoters mainstay response, to these issues, or any other challenge to their claims, is to insult the challenger, or give a nonsensical reply, rather than offer responsive data. When someone does this, it is an indication that they have no rational data to offer."
Your replies do not offer any rational data about the topic, but are merely arguments for argument's sake. That's included in number twelve, too, as nonsense.
Re: A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud
Reply To This Topic #10 Posted Yesterday at 06:11:12 PM

~EE!
Quote
Quote
Your replies do not offer any rational data about the topic, but are merely arguments for argument's sake. That's included in number twelve, too, as nonsense.

Thank you...So I convince you that #12 was nonsense and not proof of fraud..ouch..I hurt my hand patting myself on the back for getting #12 out of the way.

 

[EE THr]

If a person aggressively convinces another person to spend money on a fraudulent product, by using false statements and false testimonies, that is causing "damage," in legal terms.

Thanks for reiterating my statement.


P.S. You are responsible for your own actions.






A Dozen Points Proving LRL Fraud These points have never been rationally refuted.
"The level of sanity or insanity of the subject matter, determines the level of sanity or insanity of the two-way communication attainable in any discussion."