The Counsel’s mission is; 1: Bring together all the groups and organizations that are
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fowledup
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Wish I could put thoughts into words like Barry does, thank you! I would add that in addition to the physical differences of the districts, of equal importantance are the different political environs. If your claim is in a more favorable political climate it behooves you to foster that relationship. When we have districts forming that are showing positive results and relationships it helps us all. If we lump ourselves in one pile it's hard to point out the good things happening within the pile and easier for the opposition to blanket spank and label us all as one bad group. As we form districts that show a cooperative relationship with agencies and law enforcement that recognize our rights and follow existing laws they become tangible examples for the rest of how government should conduct themselves. It also becomes a tool to single out and hold accountable those agencies and individuals blatenly against us that act in direct opposition to our laws and rights. There has been alot of talk lately about 'coordination' between government and the people, or specifically the lack there of. A major benefit of mining districts is they have the ability and authority to force that coordination. As it sits now, who do they ask to sit at the table when it comes time for coordination on the issues?
IMHO- A mining district might operate as follows. To begin with there should be at maximum one district per county. Most county governments in California have their roots as Mining Districts, so this kind of seperates out the state into the physical regions that Clay Diggins refered to. Geographically alot starts and stops at the county level so having that one to one relationship would help organize coordination. Each district would have an elected board, meet at least once a month and follow Roberts rules of order, much like a Community Association (which it basically is). Each District would elect two district delegates that would meet quarterly with the organizations within the mining community and the other district delegates across the state. At a minimum of twice annually a smaller committee of state delegates would meet and confer with the appropriate government agencies and lawmakers. As has been pointed out many times - there are a lot of folks who want to be involved but do not want to draw attention to themselves, or be in the limelight. This is how we get official unified representation with legal authority.
How does this effect the organizations, associations,groups, and clubs doing all the work now? Again IMHO it helps them focus on the issues they are involved with and lightens the burden of trying to get miners involved and organized. It also provides a larger resource pool they can draw from. The clubs within the districts would have an excellent opportunity to be a voice for the independent prospectors within the district that need a voice but don't have a claim.
IMHO- A mining district might operate as follows. To begin with there should be at maximum one district per county. Most county governments in California have their roots as Mining Districts, so this kind of seperates out the state into the physical regions that Clay Diggins refered to. Geographically alot starts and stops at the county level so having that one to one relationship would help organize coordination. Each district would have an elected board, meet at least once a month and follow Roberts rules of order, much like a Community Association (which it basically is). Each District would elect two district delegates that would meet quarterly with the organizations within the mining community and the other district delegates across the state. At a minimum of twice annually a smaller committee of state delegates would meet and confer with the appropriate government agencies and lawmakers. As has been pointed out many times - there are a lot of folks who want to be involved but do not want to draw attention to themselves, or be in the limelight. This is how we get official unified representation with legal authority.
How does this effect the organizations, associations,groups, and clubs doing all the work now? Again IMHO it helps them focus on the issues they are involved with and lightens the burden of trying to get miners involved and organized. It also provides a larger resource pool they can draw from. The clubs within the districts would have an excellent opportunity to be a voice for the independent prospectors within the district that need a voice but don't have a claim.
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ratled
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Yes but now a days the individual miner needs to be supported by the organizations for many reasons including cash flow and prior experience in the legal mining arena. There have several recent cases that an individual has been offered help but choose to go it alone, some with just a Public Defender, have set precedent that the rest of the mining community has to live with or work harder to undo.
I remember one case a few years ago in OR in which the guy armed with his PD and "what the guys on the boards have given me I'm sure to win this easy." Still causes Buchal to spit vinegar every time it gets thrown in his face. Don't get me wrong, folks like Brandon Rinehart, Terry McClure, Lex/Waggner etc were and will always continue to be an unfortunate must, but it was and is the organizations (PLP, New 49ers, WMA and a host of others) that stood behind them with SME's, legal expertise and most of all financing that they were able to make these individual stands.
ratled
fowledup
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"Yes but now a days the individual miner needs to be supported by the organizations for many reasons including cash flow and prior experience in the legal mining arena. There have several recent cases that an individual has been offered help but choose to go it alone, some with just a Public Defender, have set precedent that the rest of the mining community has to live with or work harder to undo."
With all due respect- How will a new Federal agency subordinate to the current federal agency that is already grossly negligent and derilect in their duties to uphold the rights and laws of mining fix this? I would say the situation is currently bass ackwards, miners should not be relying on private organizations to support them. That is the problem, we are missing a much needed link of representation with true legal authority that supports the miners who inturn support the organizations that are committed to improving and preserving mining. If you want to fix a problem, achieve a goal, act in an economically prudent manner, or strive to be organized and efficient- you do not call on or create a government agency!.
With all due respect- How will a new Federal agency subordinate to the current federal agency that is already grossly negligent and derilect in their duties to uphold the rights and laws of mining fix this? I would say the situation is currently bass ackwards, miners should not be relying on private organizations to support them. That is the problem, we are missing a much needed link of representation with true legal authority that supports the miners who inturn support the organizations that are committed to improving and preserving mining. If you want to fix a problem, achieve a goal, act in an economically prudent manner, or strive to be organized and efficient- you do not call on or create a government agency!.
The Mining districts were formed by miners for the area and then joined into coalitions to handle other problems.
They need to have mining claim holder meetings and a whole bunch of other things to have any jurisdiction. Right now with their statewide illegal district they want all the actual districts to cede their rights and jurisdiction to them. It is like getting the permit to mine, you give up your rights and agree to follow theirs.
Why would anyone give up their rights
They need to have mining claim holder meetings and a whole bunch of other things to have any jurisdiction. Right now with their statewide illegal district they want all the actual districts to cede their rights and jurisdiction to them. It is like getting the permit to mine, you give up your rights and agree to follow theirs.
Why would anyone give up their rights
itspaidfor
Jr. Member
Better be careful who you support! Opens the door to change the mining law and then it is over. Just like the constitution
russau
Gold Member
[
Why would anyone give up their rights[/QUOTE] Americans are doing it everyday due to their "lack" of getting involved AND informed of whats going on! just keeping up with whats going on in the state you live in is really been getting hard to keep up with! Id say 99% of Americans don't want to be bothered by politics. that why America is having problems and the wacoenviromentalists know it and take FULL advantage of it , AND WE PAY FOR IT!
Why would anyone give up their rights[/QUOTE] Americans are doing it everyday due to their "lack" of getting involved AND informed of whats going on! just keeping up with whats going on in the state you live in is really been getting hard to keep up with! Id say 99% of Americans don't want to be bothered by politics. that why America is having problems and the wacoenviromentalists know it and take FULL advantage of it , AND WE PAY FOR IT!
Underburden
Sr. Member
Chupacabra, where did you originally find this link?
I'm trying to discover the principles but with a ghost physical address, it's pretty tough.
Underburden
Sr. Member
More info...the ghost address belongs to the web page designer, not MMAC.
MMAC didn't create itself so there has to be names somewhere.
Still digging.
Bob
MMAC didn't create itself so there has to be names somewhere.
Still digging.
Bob
fowledup
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Greenies follow those they support blindly without ever questioning a thing, they simply show up and volunteer and right a check. Miners are the most skittish untrusting folks by nature on the planet. Folks are pitching meat and you all aren't swinging at anything in your defense or answering any questions. It raises flags and causes suspicion. If we are wrong why is no one pleading the case and showing us the errors in our opinions and questions? I don't think anyone wants to shoot down something that may help the cause but then again you can't blame or be surprised by the questioning either.
One final question- what would be different with this new federal agency that would protect and prevent it from being the victims of the Sue and Settle tactics and Equal Access to Justice abuses we currently see happening to the other fed agencies? IMHO based on the greenies total commitment and obsession with overturning the mining laws this new agency would become the biggest sue and settle target out there. They are full aware that should they have their way with the mining laws all other land use issues would crumble away in a heart beat. The only thing an agency dedicated to mining could possibly offer in a settlement is our rights.
One final question- what would be different with this new federal agency that would protect and prevent it from being the victims of the Sue and Settle tactics and Equal Access to Justice abuses we currently see happening to the other fed agencies? IMHO based on the greenies total commitment and obsession with overturning the mining laws this new agency would become the biggest sue and settle target out there. They are full aware that should they have their way with the mining laws all other land use issues would crumble away in a heart beat. The only thing an agency dedicated to mining could possibly offer in a settlement is our rights.
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Jeff95531
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IMHO, I'm beginning to think we are being probed...
Bill_saf
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I read the info on mmac site twice just incase in missed some thing the first time and I got the same on the second read. Any one can do a web page the first thing that I didn't like was you see the address and phone crossed out and In the store you click on any thing and it dead goes no where. So IMHO we've been had! And like I said a half hearted end run by the Greeney's to see who they can hook with the lies and untruth's that they long to tell every one.
Just my 2 cents
Just my 2 cents
If you want to learn about mining districts it's best to study the real thing. I've been studying mining districts for years. Many of the district records are lost or scattered throughout various County Recorder's stacks.
One of the best, most complete, mining district collections available are the Gilpin County, Colorado records. You can find those in the Land Matters Mining History Library. Type into the search box something like "Early Records of Gilpin County, Colorado; 1859-1861 - Mining Districts" or just "Early Records of Gilpin" and download the 19 Mb PDF.
Those records are 327 pages and cover the 19 mining districts found in Gilpin County, Colorado. Keep in mind that Gilpin County is by far the smallest County in Colorado. It's about 20 miles wide and less than 18 miles long. Still there were 19 mining districts in that small area. Read the records and understand these districts were a pretty typical size for historical mining districts.
Heavy Pans
One of the best, most complete, mining district collections available are the Gilpin County, Colorado records. You can find those in the Land Matters Mining History Library. Type into the search box something like "Early Records of Gilpin County, Colorado; 1859-1861 - Mining Districts" or just "Early Records of Gilpin" and download the 19 Mb PDF.
Those records are 327 pages and cover the 19 mining districts found in Gilpin County, Colorado. Keep in mind that Gilpin County is by far the smallest County in Colorado. It's about 20 miles wide and less than 18 miles long. Still there were 19 mining districts in that small area. Read the records and understand these districts were a pretty typical size for historical mining districts.
Heavy Pans
russau
Gold Member
Trouble is , the more fingers in the pot , the more problems getting everyone to agree. that's been the case before! Id like to see more support from us miners with what we have now and keep from getting things more complicated to eventuaslly aid the wacoenviromentalists persuit! plus WHY aren't we going after the enviros themselves for violating OUR RIGHTS?
Underburden
Sr. Member
Ratled, help us out. You said 'THEY' made a good showing at the last PLP outing. Did anyone get a name of at least one individual from MMAC? We all know who the principles are from PLP, AMRA, et al but so far MMAC is still a mystery.
Bob
ratled
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Actually I am working on that, I just got off the phone with my PLP guy. I told to him have them contact me and to look for this thread to respond. They, like many miners, don't do all the gadegt & internet stuff. I did find out the reason for XXXX on the address is that webmaster used a private residance address. No I don't know why they didn't just change or remove it.
ratled
ratled
fowledup
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Will they be attending the meeting in Sacramento in a couple weeks? Perfect place to make themselves and plan known
2cmorau
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Or for the bogus science, didn't they introduce the mosquitoes, <--- heck be just as pesky
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Do you mean Joe Martori from Sleepy Bear Mining LLC and Martori Mining Enterprises LLC minerrick?
Just want to be clear about who's supporting what.
Heavy Pans
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