The Evolution of Fluidized Sluices

[bcfromfl]

I actually made some videos yesterday showing how good just seven inches of deep v-mat is at catching and holding gold. Heading out to roast again today I'll try to post videos later.

Could you post links? I'd like to watch!

 

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[Goldwasher]

Could you post links? I'd like to watch!

i'm working on it never uploaded to you tube and my upload speed is slow i think i got one so far lol.

 

[Goldwasher]

Heres the clean out from my slick box on Monday. Just seven inches of deep v mat.

 

[GrizzlyGoldTrap]

Heres the clean out from my slick box on Monday. Just seven inches of deep v mat.

Nice color Goldwasher! That's what years of experience will get you... keep posting videos.

 

[Goldwasher]

checking the sluice set up before running with my partner for the day

 

[bcfromfl]

Awesome! Thank you!

 

[Oregon Viking]

Heres the clean out from my slick box on Monday. Just seven inches of deep v mat.

I thought you were using Gold Hog mats?
Great gold!

 

[Goldwasher]

I thought you were using Gold Hog mats?
Great gold!

Well you see I had my two 10" x 36" boxes about five feet up the bank from the water. I knew it was gonna rain, thought I left them high enough... Second major storm the water came up about six feet. Blew me and my boxes away with the volume and power. I found my boxes about a hundred yards down stream. I only found two 6" pieces of my Gold Hog Matt.

I haven't replaced it. I still have whats in my 12"w by 48"l box. I just won't be using that until I have to pump after the water isn't moving anymore.

I don't know if I'm gonna replace what I lost I love the stuff. But, it's pricey. I have been more than happy with my custom riffle and expanded over moss so I haven't got new hog matts.

Wish Doc had an act of God warranty

 

[Pyrofx]

I'm with Goldwasher. Gorilla all the way. Move materials. If you lose a bit, throw 5 more shovel fulls.
G

 

[SRP_KBell]

Prospector Jay –

The point I was trying to make when I talk about miners who process 15-20 buckets a day is that material volume is their limitation not the maximum throughput capacity of the sluice. Just to clarify, when I say someone who runs 15-20 buckets a day has moved a yard of material I am figuring about half the material gets classified out. I am not saying they ran a yard through their sluice.

As stated in other thread entries, the Recon which is the smaller of the two sluices can easily run a classified two gallon bucket in 42 seconds. The larger Expedition can run the same amount in 20-25 seconds. Unclassified will run faster since less material enters the trap. The above average miner running a five gallon bucket every two minutes would be running almost a yard per hour. The Expedition is not targeted towards miners that run small amounts of material, although they can benefit from the increased efficiency. The Recon can process about half the material of the Expedition so it’s no slouch either. I like the fact that the Recon fits in a normal backpack with room for tools, water, etc. but can run big volumes of material. Sampling sluices? Hardly. I say compact and powerful.


“I have never said publicly or in these or other posts that I think my machine is better - My machine is different. Do I believe my machine is more efficient? yes. Do I know the Bazooka can process more material? yes. Is the actual gold recovery between the two machines that different? no.”

I still stand behind this statement - Yes I believe our sluices are more efficient and the fluid bed sluices can process more material. The key factor is the last sentence – Is the actual gold recovery between the two that different? No. This means that the FB had to run more material, i.e. miners have to work more to get the similar results. If you processed the same amount of material in the FD sluice you would have more gold.

Yes you are correct about the correlation between classification and 98% +/- efficiency. Highest rates of recovery (efficiency) are achieved by reducing the size of material and slowing down water speed. If you run larger material you either have to increase water volume and speed or increase the sluice angle to help move the larger material out. Larger material will also impact the flow of water and material into the trap, which reduces efficiency, regardless of FB or FD design (or any other sluice).

I don’t know how you classify, but don’t assume that because I am talking about buckets of classified material that I am bent over, classifying with a small round classifier in a bucket. Of course sometimes walking distance or work space force me to use this method, but I prefer to classify in a mortar tub with a large rectangular screen while standing, carry five gallon buckets over to the sluice, then use a two or three gallon bucket to pour into the sluice since it is easier to control and lift. For me it is always about moving dirt with the least amount of back strain.

GW –

I have tested our FD sluice against many different sluices for speed of processing and recovery – I disagree that either unit is slower than a 3 foot sluice. I am not being disrespectful and I realize you mine to put food on the table but I have a question – You compare the speed of my products to many things…Have you spent a day (or two or three) running either of our products?

 

[Pyrofx]

GW –

I have tested our FD sluice against many different sluices for speed of processing and recovery – I disagree that either unit is slower than a 3 foot sluice. I am not being disrespectful and I realize you mine to put food on the table but I have a question – You compare the speed of my products to many things…Have you spent a day (or two or three) running either of our product?


Im heading to Goldwashers part of the country first part of June with my wife for a week. Maybe we could run one side by side with my Gold Hog river sluice and get a quantitative and qualitative side by side.
G

 

[Goldwasher]

Kevin I was going to post another thread and get out of this. basically show about twenty five minutes of a part of my day productiion sluicing and opening up bedrock to work.

I'm just gonna put it here now though.

I agree on doing with out the back strain I feel great after every day out really your body gets more used to it as you do it more. I'm 6'4 so I have far to bend.

I'm sure by now you think I have a personal bent against you. I just disagree with the way you put things as far as your innovation. So, i'm breaking your balls and holding you to it.

I have never used your sluices. I have seen them run. I have held them and inspected them. You and I talked about them in Sonora for about fifteen minutes.

I have many field reports I seriously doubt their usefulness for a digger like me. I guess is the more accurate way to describe my situation.

It really is based on more me not seeing this as an organic evolution from you. Based on mass field experience.So I just don't believe in your product. I've never seen you talk about actual prospecting and your light bulb moment where your sluice just put you into overdrive on your claim.

Heck I'll make a video of me using one (or trying) if you double dog dare me.

On sluicing and classifying and making boring videos.

Like i said fifteen minutes of fame... My camera timed out or you would have gtot to see me feed too. i don't know if it didn't like being in the sun. I too classify int a mortor tub. I should have been using a milk crate as classifying from an inch to half 3/8 is pointless when you have flow.

You guys will get to see some killer bed rock and watch the dragon/damsel flies and maybe a butterfly or two act like I'm not even there. The canyon is just alive right now because of the water and the wildflowers have been awesome.

Pretty typical day except the water is lower and the sun hotter than the last six months has been for me. I just remodeled 900 sq foot of commercial spot floor to ceiling so it is nice but bitter sweet to be back in store mode and teak a "break" sluicing and crackin for a day.

I do a lot more than you get a glimpse of in this "short" vid

I may make more don't expect editing unless I find it fun and easy. i'll try to make better raw video. I promise I won't be a Tom M . Or Jeff W. about it I feel weird enough talking outloud ourt by the creek as it is...I sure won't be using a funny accent or hootin' at gold I planted to make my self look good hope thats ok with you guys.


DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU!!

 

[goldog]

Classifying is relative. We are getting close to an answer.

Whether you dig directly into your sluice or bring dirt from elsewhere there is classifying going on. A shovel classifies down to a few inches. Hand work reduces it to 1-2".

What is your rectangular screen? I will guess 1/2". What is the time? Again a guess, 2-5mins.

Leaving these bits of info out is what is hurting you in this conversation.

Oh yea and the fact that you'd rather bash another product and it's users than address real world questions.

Participants in this thread have been quite patient but I don't believe you've sold any product.

There are some useless, worthless products out there. They sell because people buy the dream.

On its own your product is not bad. It does the job. It's clear you believe in it. Stick to that. Why try to "sell" people who are happy with what they've got?

 

[Goldwasher]

Classifying is relative. We are getting close to an answer.

Whether you dig directly into your sluice or bring dirt from elsewhere there is classifying going on. A shovel classifies down to a few inches. Hand work reduces it to 1-2".

What is your rectangular screen? I will guess 1/2". What is the time? Again a guess, 2-5mins.

Leaving these bits of info out is what is hurting you in this conversation.

Oh yea and the fact that you'd rather bash another product and it's users than address real world questions.

Participants in this thread have been quite patient but I don't believe you've sold any product.

There are some useless, worthless products out there. They sell because people buy the dream.

On its own your product is not bad. It does the job. It's clear you believe in it. Stick to that. Why try to "sell" people who are happy with what they've got?

^^^^^^ The fact is concentrating gets you more gold and moving material more than once happens in mining so there is a lot of method to producing more.

The majority of people running a basic sluice are so scared of what they're doing it hinders their growth.

The Keene tutorial tells you to run water to about an inch below the top...literally everyone else you come across swears they have to classify to 1/2 inch and feed your sluice with an eye dropper.

I'm gonna listen to the guy from keene.

I learned a long time ago that the more of the proper material I ran the more gold I got. the decision was made in the dirt before any tool was applied.

If I'm classifying it is to the size I need to move through my gear based on flow not to increase percentage of fines recovered.

A lot of theory from commercial size op's has crept into the stream sluice world and is being applied incorrectly.

With good flow it is very hard to over feed a stream sluice with a shovel. Down right impossible with length. The feed is relatively intermitant and there is just so much room for gold to settle. Especially In smooth deep flat water.

The bulk material is pushed way out in front of the gold by hydraulic force and the gold even the finest stuff makes it right to the bottom.It has SOOOOOO much less push being enacted on it by the water because of its lack of surface area and density.

I could build a trough with a rain gutter, drill 2 1/2 inch holes in the bottom put dixie cups in those holes. Run material and catch good gold especially if the dixie cups held up.

I'm not gonna put a sticker on it and market it as innovation though.

Newbies deserve to learn they can do a lot more with a shovel and a sluice than they are being led to believe by people who sell classifiers

 

[Goldwasher]

And that is why this guy is one of my best tools.

I call it "Lil killa" yards and yards ran through it as my fast water feed sluice. But also a great stand alone.

Stripped out no longer folding Jobe folder.

Can run in any flow down to the lowest and will take 3 inch cobble no problem and has excellent recovery and retention of fines.

Little rebel sluice breaking the rules

 

[Garrote Gold]

long time lurker, first time poster,I used to sluice until I saw some hobbled old timers running something called a bazooka a few years ago, seeing is believing and using one converts you. Watching your vid looks like extra work to me....took you a minute to wash a few rocks? I could have had 15 more shovels in the zook...... zook will keep my back from breaking not having to classify, work smarter not harder. My claim always has lots of water and never runs out..... I love the fluid base designs coming out, miners are always looking for a edge- so innovative, miners like to jump everyones ideas and claims ha ha, from chinese riffles in the pan to anything not on patent, someones saying "eureka" and selling it.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Goldwasher]

long time lurker, first time poster,I used to sluice until I saw some hobbled old timers running something called a bazooka a few years ago, seeing is believing and using one converts you. Watching your vid looks like extra work to me....took you a minute to wash a few rocks? I could have had 15 more shovels in the zook...... zook will keep my back from breaking not having to classify, work smarter not harder. My claim always has lots of water and never runs out..... I love the fluid base designs coming out, miners are always looking for a edge- so innovative, miners like to jump everyones ideas and claims ha ha, from chinese riffles in the pan to anything not on patent, someones saying "eureka" and selling it.

[/QUOTE]
long time lurker eh...

I built bazookas, a lot of them. bazooka is no longer. The marketing pictures used in the old website and adds are my partners prospector. I know the owner. The reason im doing what i'm doing is because a bazooka wasn't as usable in as many situations.

I would prep the area the same if I was shoveling into a bazooka. Though a bazooka wouldn't be running in that flow unless it was a sniper and I wouldn't be able to feed it as fast.

Thanks for trying to help though. I think you have some catching up on threads you missed while lurking.

 

[Garrote Gold]

LOL, Ive read your posts, you think your sluice dont smell but that old thing surely does. There is a post for show off yer sluice in the other section maybe you missed that thread while making your shaky vid.......

the video has you washing a few marble sized rocks for no reason for a few minutes then throwing it back in the river?? I just dont get it? waste of time-

you complain about inefficiency but your whole work ethic is not efficient doing that for hours during the day.

I will stick to my shovel and zook and let it wash the rocks for me. That dust gold, though savored by micron sluice types, doesnt pay the gas so Id rather move material than nit pick a few mircons and call it success over a fluid bed. With water up, need to take advantage in best way possible, looks like enough water to run a zook to me, build a proper wing dam and it would be fine unless your water really runs out then your cant even sluice lol......Id like to see a side by side and let GW make another video and we can see all three in action. His sluice, a zook, and a GGT or any fluid bed and see what gets the most for the amount of time and effort at that spot. That would be a proper video for this thread instead of just posting yourself washing rocks three times before feeding a sluice

 

[N-Lionberger]

That "worthless dust" really adds up if you make a regular thing out of it. Garrote Gold the Bazooka and the Grizzly are shovel feed while the AMP needs classified feed, 1/4" is recommended if I remember correctly. To classify or not to classify, I think it really depends on the situation at hand, if you can directly shovel feed great! if I have to carry it in a bucket any distance I classify it out so I dont have to carry all those heavy rocks. I have a couple Bazookas, an AMP and traditional sluices. They all have their place including the AMP, it works great at bear river day use area and no where else lol I don't understand it. The best performer on my fluid beds is my 48" prospector, way better than the 30". All about the extra slickplate. The fluid beds need a lot of water to run, in situations where there isnt enough flow a traditional sluice with expanded metal really holds its own. A slickplate like Goldwasher shows in his videos really improves stratification and ability to put more material through faster, the same thing can be done in a short fluid bed. it really improves a highbanker in which the spray washing action adds lots of bubbles to the slurry and floats your fines. Kevin you did in fact talk smack on Bazooka a few years ago at one of my clubs meetings, you made huge claims about how how much better your sluice was than bazookas and said you were going to put bazooka out of business with that removable trap that gets locked in with sand. Not sure why they went under, not a lack of sales as far as I can tell. Also are you saying that you classify into a tray then transfer to a five gallon bucket and then transfer again into 2 gallon buckets at the sluice?

 

[SRP_KBell]

GW –

Just watched the video – Don’t envy your job…I hate working in mud all day. Saw nice gold in the pans so it is obviously worth it. Also learned something today…using the first sluice as a slick box to gain speed.

First, I would love to have you run one of our sluices anytime you are available - I appreciate any feedback, good or bad. I would like to video it and put it on our YouTube channel. And I don’t even need to Double Dog Dare! I am retired so I am available most days.

I don’t think you have anything against me since we’ve only crossed paths a couple times. And yes I expect you to hold me to whatever I say. No light bulb moment, just several years and lots of running dirt, testing, documenting and tweaking but no one cares about that – they want results. I am very satisfied with our latest generation.

Not only do I wish I could talk about actual prospecting, I’d like to be actually DOING IT. Being a manufacturer of several products besides the FD sluice, answering calls from customers, trying to work on new product design/testing and website design and maintenance takes most of my “free” time. We do about 10-12 shows and events each year starting in Feb. Being the new kid on the block relatively speaking (3+ years) and selling products that definitely not mainstream only makes it tougher. It was way more simple and easier when I was just the new guy from AMP!

BTW like you I try and use the best tools I own when mining – One AMP does not fit all. At shows and events I am constantly telling people they need to own many sluices, tools, etc. Don’t fall down in amazement but we sell an insert for an A52. Yes I use a Pyramid Pro Pan when there are just puddles left on our Mariposa claim. I do whatever it takes.

Do I classify? Unless it’s the PPP Yes all the time. 1/2” normally because it runs through any sluice including the Recon without any hassle. I have worked in areas where big gold is 50 mesh so I classified to 1/4”. I like using the mortar tub whenever I can – I have a rectangular 1/2” mesh screen that fits on top of the tub so you can shovel on it. Works pretty decent and you can fill one up in about 5 minutes, depending on material you’re digging. Why? because I think your gold recovery goes up...especially fine gold (50 mesh down).


NL – The Recon and Expedition can run any classification – I have people classifying to 12 mesh and others classifying through a milk crate. I agree with GW - The key is matching water speed to material size. No matter what size you’re running the speed through either FD sluice should be about one second per foot. For the Recon that’s one thousand one, material dropped should be in the trap. Expedition is just a tad longer.

And you are exactly right that small gold adds up.

Yes when I use the tub I shovel in while standing. When I am finished if the sluice is far away I fill buckets, which takes less than a minute. I always use a 2 or 3 gallon bucket (poured from the 5 gal) when running material in either sluice because it gives me better control and I like to re-liquefy the material as I go through a bucket because it makes it go through the sluice faster.

Pyrofx – Sounds good. PM me and we’ll definitely try and work something out.