The Lost Dutchman Lies

[lgadbois]

Danny A. Adams has written a provocative book on his search for the DeGrazia paintings, the solving of the Lost Dutchman maps, and the discovery of a mine.

This book can be read on line at:
The Lost Dutchman Lies - Danny A Adams - Google Books

Danny believes that the "Peralta Stones" and most of the Dutchman Maps were created by Ted DeGrazia.

 

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[roadrunner]

Found this last month searching for LDM items.
Have not read it all,maybe a 1/3 of it,roughly.
Interesting to say the least like all the other books,or articles.
Have no conclusions yet.
Thanks for posting though.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

I was surfing the web last week...found some guy attempting to use the ore wagon tracks outside the pinal smelter site, as proof of the lost Dutchman mine...
noticed he took the photograph to in a position to leave out the town of superior, or the pyrite mine...

and I know there are people out there who will now insult me if I suggest this is a post Spanish mining activity site....lol

 

[somehiker]

Haven't seen that one Don, but it sounds like the suggestion made a while back, that Waltz stole a wagon load of ore from somewhere while he was the night watchman.....

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

heard that one also somehiker...
while there was much gold taken out of pinal, and later, magma...one had to work real hard to get it out of the copper...not much native gold in that area.

though..mr. martian, chief engineer of magma copper company told me of a piece of gold found in that black layer above superior...a nugget that looked, and was as large as a AAA egg...
I know who dug it up, but never did see it myself.

 

[lgadbois]

Dan is a member of TreasureNet. He posts under the name of "Seventy-two". He has taken a lot of criticism for the conclusions he draws in the book.

My thoughts:

We don't really know where Jacob Waltz got his gold. It could have been from a mine that he worked. It could have been ore that was cached somewhere or gold Jacob found from the massacre in the Superstitions.

There must be over 100 mines in the Superstitions. Have any of them produced a lot of gold? We don't know. Did the mine that Kenworthy worked on Bluff Springs Mountain really produce gold? Where is the proof? Where are the ore samples from his mine? Was his mining operation a screen for selling gold from another source? Where did he sell the ore? Did he smelt the ore himself?

Dan has an interesting narrative that describes how the Don's organization promoted tourism through the idea of a Lost Dutchman Mine. He also has some ideas of how Ted Degrazia may have created the "Peralta Stone Maps" as well as many of the other LDM maps. How many of the maps are clues to the location of where Degrazia stored 18 of his paintings?

Dan's conclusions may not be accurate, be he gives the LDM hunters plenty to think about. The site he located East of Labarge Box is apparently a worked out quartz mine. I doubt that it is the mine where JW got his gold. Other maps point to other mines, but none has proven to be the richest gold mine in the world. And now with no mining allowed in the Superstition Mountains, I guess the search for the LDM is just a fantasy driven adventure for those that enjoy hiking in this rugged and dangerous country.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

hey...I was just saying...don't know dan, never read his writings..in print or on line...

have nothing against the man...good luck on your book sales,sir...

 

[lgadbois]

I am not selling books or anything else. The web link takes you to a site where you can read a good book on the LDM. I do not know and have never met the man, Dan Adams.

 

[lgadbois]

Secretcanyon and Somehiker: How come you guys came in and high-jacked my thread? Read the title of the thread please!

 

[393stroker]

Thanks for posting the link. That artist supposedly burned some of his paintings where I`ve been hiking down Rogers Canyon way.

 

[roadrunner]

I was surfing the web last week...found some guy attempting to use the ore wagon tracks outside the pinal smelter sight, as proof of the lost Dutchman mine...
noticed he took the photograph to in a position to leave out the town of superior, or the pyrite mine...

and I know there are people out there who will now insult me if I suggest this is a post Spanish mining activity site....lol

I have not seen that but I would hope he did not get the big metal sign,cutout of a steel plate,that says Wagon Tracks. In the pic.

Did you see the other book of his with the directions to the mine from the North, and the South?
The only problem I see is on his deathbed statement, he said he built a ledge,inside the hole,that went 12 feet or more into the ground, and put his beams on the ledge,then filled the rest with dirt.
The beams where 2 feet down.
I will see if I can draw a pic in photoshop of what I think he ment.
He said no one will ever find his mine.
Here's the link.

Lost Dutchman Location

 

[lgadbois]

It is interesting how the Virgil Bowmen Map is drawn. At first glance, all you see near the top of the map is Weaver's Needle with the sharp point of Superstition Mountain behind. Adams, in his book, uses this map as a topo overlay. He detected the stone corral and found a spoon that is marked Rogers 1847. He also found some of Degrazia's used paint containers. This must have one of this artists favorite painting locations. You see suggestions of the area in some of his paintings.

 

[roadrunner]

Yes, and also including the guy that lived in Labarge canyon.
Was that Herman pertresch? One of the people by the dutchmans side of his bed?
I need to go re read that part again.
I am slo still looking at the Holmes manuscript.
I need to look up the threads on it now.

Wonder if Dan is taking all the heat because he is stepping on some ones toes or what.
If its about the Dons club,all they have to do is prove him wrong.Simple.

 

[lgadbois]

Yes, Herman lived in a cave on the South side of Herman's Mountain. Experts are split on whether or not Reiny Petrasch and Dick Holmes were with Jacob Waltz when he died. The Gonzalas map that Ruth had on his fatal hike is easy to read, and seems to focus on the area up by Squaw Canyon/Black Mesa. The Perfil Map seems to fit more than one location including Labarge Upper Box, and the next canyon to the North.

 

[markmar]

lgadbois

The Gonzales map which had Ruth when he died , is an another edition of Perfil map , and leads in the same region with the others Perfil map editions . The region is at north end of Bluff Spring Mountain and looking south . Of course you know how the Perfil map must be reversed .
Go to a distance such from the north end of Bluff Spring Mountain , to can see the peak of the Weavers Needle up of the right side ( looking south ) of the BSM like a part of the same mountain . After you can see the shape of " Caverna con casa " at the entrance of the BS Canyon , the tunel which is to the left ( near the waterfall and across of "Caverna con casa " ) , and the small canyon which run south and separates the two mountainsides like in the map . The others , I leave you to find alone .

 

[lgadbois]

markmar,
The Gonzalas map looks like this:



The trail goes to the NW side of "sierra alta", the mountain North of Bluff Springs Mountain. The Gonzalas doesn't look at all like the Perfil Map.

Where is the Perfil mine? Some believe that it is in the canyon by Herman Mountain. The mine that Adams found is to the East of there (see 1847 on the topo map.)

 

[lgadbois]

Here is a sketch by Degrazia:


Is it a map to his paintings?

 

[roadrunner]

Here is a sketch by Degrazia:

View attachment 821891
Is it a map to his paintings?

Looks like it could be.Why the shape in the upper right hand corner?
How about the shape to the southwest of the first shape.
Look at the chest of the horse, see the upside down U, and also the harness. That is not what a harness looks like when some one is riding.The "Y".
A western saddle, and other saddles I have used, only have the cinch strap that goes under the fron of the saddle.
Could that be a canyon marking?

 

[coazon de oro]

The hog head behind Ted could indicate Hog Canyon. I may have made a mistake here, the picture seems more like that of the blindfolded Dr. being lead by the Apache.

Homar

 

[lgadbois]

Shape in the upper right corner of the Degrazia sketch is Geronimo Head?