The Robert and Sarah Morriss Story

[Rebel - KGC]

Max, Sr. MAY BE 1821-1898; so YOD is 1898.

 

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[franklin]

Max, Sr. MAY BE 1821-1898; so YOD is 1898.

There was a kin of the Guggenheimer's that got out of the Civil War early, was AWOL and then discharged. He had an awful lot of money quick after the discharge. Did he get an army payroll or the $500,000 missing from the New Orleans Mint. He spent $7,000 for property in Lynchburg the year he was discharged. And a little over a year later he paid $30,000 for property in Tennessee where his sister later lived. Maybe this is the real Beale Treasure? Max did a lot of traveling after the war and one of the places he had a passport to was New Orleans on a ship. Maybe Max made up the Beale Treasure story to account for all the gold of his kin?

His niece lived there later in Tennessee. He let her have the building or house for $1. One Dollar. The same or following year. Wow.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Dunno.

 

[cw0909]

Bell Tavern



Bell Tavern : survey report, 1936 Apr. 8
Creator
Beardsworth, Susan R.
Creation Date
1936 - 0408
Format
3 leaves.
Note(s)
Map location number on survey report incorrectly noted as: CAM36. Actual map number: LYN36
Class: Tavern
Building date: Before 1815
Number of stories: 3
Building material: Frame
Location: Church Street, Lynchburg, Va.
Primary owners: Charles Johnson, et al., Mary Diuguid
Includes a description of events during a visit to the tavern from Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson.
Includes transcription of a toast made by Thomas Jefferson.

https://lva.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/01LVA_INST/18mtacj/alma990006931110205756

 

[cw0909]

Guggenheimer



pgs 3,4,5,6 describe property and a will
Virginia Historical Inventory Project (VHIP): Max Guggenheimer home

Max Guggenheimer home : survey report, 1937 Sept. 17
Creator
Beardsworth, Susan R.
Creation Date
1937 - 0917
Format
6 leaves.
Note(s)
Map location number on survey report incorrectly given as: CAM45. Actual map number: LYN45, but no dot with that number appears on map.
Class: Home
Building date: ca. 1852
Builder: Charles Simpson
Building plan: Square
Number of stories: 2
Building material: Brick
Location: Grace Street, Lynchburg, Va.
Primary owners: Charles Simpson, Wilson P. Bryant, Max Guggenheimer
Later used as: Guggenheimer Memorial Hospital, city-owned public recreational facility
Includes transcription of Wilson P. Bryant's will.
Includes description of the house and portraits of the Guggenheimer family.
Includes transcription of plaque at recreational center dated 1911
https://lva.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/01LVA_INST/18mtacj/alma990006929270205756

graves
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64704164/charles-m-guggenheimer
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64704166/charles-m-guggenheimer

 

[cw0909]

Franklin Hotel



between 10th & 11th on main

Virginia Historical Inventory Project (VHIP): Site of the Franklin Hotel

Site of the Franklin Hotel : survey report, 1937 Oct. 4
Creator
Beardsworth, Susan R.
Creation Date
1937 - 1004
Format
3 leaves.
Note(s)
Map location number on survey report incorrectly noted as: CAM55. Actual map number: LYN55
Class: Hotel site
Building date: 1815
Builder: Samuel Jordan Harrison
Building material: Brick
Location: Main Street, Lynchburg, Va.
Primary owners: Samuel J. Harrison, Norvell family, Stockton Terry
Also known as: Norvell House
Historical significance: This was the first hotel in Lynchburg.
Includes transcription of toast made by R.G.H. Keen.
Includes abstracts of title.
The hotel was torn down around 1890.
https://lva.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/01LVA_INST/18mtacj/alma990006931490205756

 

[franklin]

View attachment 1778283

pgs 3,4,5,6 describe property and a will
Virginia Historical Inventory Project (VHIP): Max Guggenheimer home

Max Guggenheimer home : survey report, 1937 Sept. 17
Creator
Beardsworth, Susan R.
Creation Date
1937 - 0917
Format
6 leaves.
Note(s)
Map location number on survey report incorrectly given as: CAM45. Actual map number: LYN45, but no dot with that number appears on map.
Class: Home
Building date: ca. 1852
Builder: Charles Simpson
Building plan: Square
Number of stories: 2
Building material: Brick
Location: Grace Street, Lynchburg, Va.
Primary owners: Charles Simpson, Wilson P. Bryant, Max Guggenheimer
Later used as: Guggenheimer Memorial Hospital, city-owned public recreational facility
Includes transcription of Wilson P. Bryant's will.
Includes description of the house and portraits of the Guggenheimer family.
Includes transcription of plaque at recreational center dated 1911
https://lva.primo.exlibrisgroup.com/permalink/01LVA_INST/18mtacj/alma990006929270205756

graves
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64704164/charles-m-guggenheimer
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/64704166/charles-m-guggenheimer

Well that answered the question for ECS about Max Guggenheimer and when he moved to Grace Street. Sometime after June 28, 1884, when he purchased the property. That is about the same year that James Beverly Ward sent in for the copyright of the Job Print Pamphlet commonly called the Beale Papers.

 

[ECS]

Well that answered the question for ECS about Max Guggenheimer and when he moved to Grace Street. Sometime after June 28, 1884, when he purchased the property. That is about the same year that James Beverly Ward sent in for the copyright of the Job Print Pamphlet commonly called the Beale Papers.

Which means that Max Guggenheimer ESQ DID NOT reside at the former residence of Robert Morris when the BEALE PAPERS was put in sale.
Remember that the Beale story narrative was written to sell in 1885 Lynchburg, and readers would be aware that the well known businessman, Max Guggenheimer, no longer lived at the Main Street address.
So much of what is "believed" about the Beale story has been influenced by later writers embellishing the original 1885 story-George Hart, Pauline Innis, Peter Viemeister, AND Claudine Fulton Ellis.
What was mentioned in the 23 page Job Print Pamphlet and obvious in 1885 Lynchburg has been lost due these embellishments and crazy quilt piecing random unrelated facts of speculation to fit one's pet theory.

 

[franklin]

Which means that Max Guggenheimer ESQ DID NOT reside at the former residence of Robert Morris when the BEALE PAPERS was put in sale.

Don't know? Do not know when he moved? Do you? What difference does it make where he lived?

 

[ECS]

Don't know? Do not know when he moved? Do you? What difference does it make where he lived?

It is important because as the only other person beside the copyright agent/publisher living when the pamphlet was placed on sale, one needs to determine if he was mentioned to create "credibility" for the Beale story, or is it a "tell" that would be apparent to 1885 Lynchburg that it as a "localized" adventure treasure dime novel with play along parlor entertainment ciphers.
Keep in mind, that the original price of 50 cents was lowered to 10 cents, so sales were not that outstanding, and the remaining copies were burned in a stove.

 

[franklin]

It is important because as the only other person beside the copyright agent/publisher living when the pamphlet was placed on sale, one needs to determine if he was mentioned to create "credibility" for the Beale story, or is it a "tell" that would be apparent to 1885 Lynchburg that it as a "localized" adventure treasure dime novel with play along parlor entertainment ciphers.
Keep in mind, that the original price of 50 cents was lowered to 10 cents, so sales were not that outstanding, and the remaining copies were burned in a stove.

Yes I know all of that except I do not believe the remaining copies were burned in a stove? But still what difference does it make whether Max lived in Robert Morriss house in 1885 or whether he lived on Grace Street? Seems to me it would be best to find out where he lived in 1861 and 1862? You must remember he was wounded in the early part of the war and was discharged. He would have had amble time to talk to Robert Morriss and be the author to the Pamphlet. Max was a clerk for the Guggenheimers, just maybe he was also a clerk for Morriss & Mitchell's business?

 

[ECS]

The origin of the Beale story is 1885 when the job print pamphlet was put on sale.
There is no mention of Beale, his Party and perilous adventure, stay with Morris, Buford, or the of the treasure vault before 1885.
NONE.
The difference where Max lived in 1885 Lynchburg would have been noticed by those in 1885 Lynchburg.
While we are remembering, Ward applied for copyright with only the title, before the "manuscript" was printed, so if Max had moved into the Grace Street house, that would be an indicator that the story narrative was a work of fiction to those in Lynchburg.

 

[franklin]

Maybe. Maybe not. That would be stretching thought a little too far.

 

[ECS]

Once again keep in mind-
The Beale Papers is a localized adventure treasure story written expressly to be marketed and sold in 1885 Lynchburg.

 

[franklin]

I don't think you will ever let us forget.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, we already know beyond shadow of doubt that the story, as presented, can't be true.
You know that, and you're even aware as to many of the reasons/facts why, so how can you encourage others to look for truth in something that you already know isn't true? ...
You're still romancing the story and forgetting about all of those little details/facts that you've already accepted and proven to yourself that discredit the story, the ciphers, etc.

'Nuff Said
Some forget that the Beale Papers were written for the specific localized 1885 Lynchburg market, and is the only source of the Beale story, that later on, others built upon with their own embellishments- the Harts, Innis, Ellis, Atwell, Viemeister, and others.
None of the above have presented the tiniest bit of evidence that the Beale adventure/treasure story ever actually happened. NONE.

 

[franklin]

I do not think you will ever let us forget that. I think after 10,000 post reminding us we get your picture of where you stand. Give us a break will you.

 

[ECS]

Franklin, with all of your years of research and most likely way over the 10,000 posts you claim I've made, have ever found any conclusive proof that the Beale Party ever had a perilous adventure that led to the discovery of gold and silver that led to them constructing a vault in Bedford county?
All my research leads to the conclusion that the Beale Papers was a work of fiction, with references drawn from Ward and his wife Harriet's extended families.
So far, neither you or anyone else have presented hard evidence, just maybe, could be speculation, but actual documented proof that proves my findings wrong that could change my "stand".

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Franklin, with all of your years of research and most likely way over the 10,000 posts you claim I've made, have ever found any conclusive proof that the Beale Party ever had a perilous adventure that led to the discovery of gold and silver that led to them constructing a vault in Bedford county?
All my research leads to the conclusion that the Beale Papers was a work of fiction, with references drawn from Ward and his wife Harriet's extended families.
So far, neither you or anyone else have presented hard evidence, just maybe, could be speculation, but actual documented proof that proves my findings wrong that could change my "stand".

For YOU, CLOSE THE BOOK!

 

[ECS]

For YOU, CLOSE THE BOOK!

WHY do you and Franklin constantly post remarks like this?