The Romancing Of The Beale Papers

franklin

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Letters dated 1856 and 1859...Robert Morris died at Anzoletta Saunders house in 1863...how do these letters prove the Beale story?
...and what does Clarence C Saunders and Piggly Wiggly have to do with Ward's 1885 copyrighted Beale Papers?
Nothing at all. Just fluff. Always wondered why you brought him into the discussion.

I think Piggly Wiggly proves a lot. It proves that I was right and once again you sir are wrong.
 

ECS

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I think Piggly Wiggly proves a lot. It proves that I was right and once again you sir are wrong.
It proves that you spend too much effort on attempting to fit people who have no direct connection to the time periods in the Beale Papers narrative text, or to those involved in the copyright, publishing, printing, advertising and sale of the pamphlet.

What purpose does the above post concerning what these two (1856,1859) letters "could state" serve?
Either they "state" or they do not "state", but "could state" just does not confirm anything but another work of fiction to prove a work of fiction.
That photo of the "unknown author" you claimed to have seen, is this another "could have" been a photo of the "unknown author"?
 

franklin

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It proves that you spend too much effort on attempting to fit people who have no direct connection to the time periods in the Beale Papers narrative text, or to those involved in the copyright, publishing, printing, advertising and sale of the pamphlet.

What purpose does the above post concerning what these two (1856,1859) letters "could state" serve?
Either they "state" or they do not "state", but "could state" just does not confirm anything but another work of fiction to prove a work of fiction.
That photo of the "unknown author" you claimed to have seen, is this another "could have" been a photo of the "unknown author"?

No I have the photograph only it is the author's son, not the author himself. I hope to obtain the author's photo when I make my visit to his old plantation home.
 

franklin

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Sure enough I find out as I go along. Maybe I should wait and check all my information and research with you. I know has nothing to do with the original Job Print Pamphlet of 1885. Lay off and get lost.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Franklin, it's all just more of the same old romancing of the story. Because there is nothing in those letters to directly connect them to the tale then they automatically get romanced and suddenly become suspect of being directly connected somehow. This is a routine theme of operation concerning the Beale tale and it's exactly why so many variations and so many different alleged connections exist. It's also why so many folks continue to lay current and new claims of solve and "real evidence." Yet in all of them, for 132 years and counting, not a single shred of actual evidence to any of it. It is all just additional story spinning with the hope of keeping the already dead horse alive somehow.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Franklin, it's all just more of the same old romancing of the story. Because there is nothing in those letters to directly connect them to the tale then they automatically get romanced and suddenly become suspect of being directly connected somehow. This is a routine theme of operation concerning the Beale tale and it's exactly why so many variations and so many different alleged connections exist. It's also why so many folks continue to lay current and new claims of solve and "real evidence." Yet in all of them, for 132 years and counting, not a single shred of actual evidence to any of it. It is all just additional story spinning with the hope of keeping the already dead horse alive somehow.

In fact, the only factual evidence that has been discovered in that 132 years is the mounting pile of contrary evidences exposing all of the author's obvious deceptions, inaccuracies, etc., that mandate and conclude the story to be "untrue." Now this is all factual evidence. And yet Beale romantics are still trying to find something, anything, to bring this clearly untrue tale into the realm of false reality. And the most amazing part of this, they're doing it knowing full well that all of this contrary and factual evidence against the tale exist. This is why most realize now that it's all just romance and nothing more.

In essence you're looking to discover the truth in confirmed lies. :laughing7:
 

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ECS

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Sure enough I find out as I go along. Maybe I should wait and check all my information and research with you. I know has nothing to do with the original Job Print Pamphlet of 1885. Lay off and get lost.
If information has nothing to do with the 1885 Beale Papers, the original and the ONLY source of the Beale perilous adventure treasure story, why post it on these Beale threads?
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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What should be perfectly clear at this point to even the most ardent of true believers is that there is absolutely zero to support the tale, and in fact, there's even more contrary factual evidence concluding the tale to be "untrue" as presented. Given this cold hard reality check, these Beale romantics need to rethink the manner in which they have been pursuing evidence and the claims of "certainty" they have made in regards to their false findings. The world is a much different place now, not nearly as easy to pull the wool over everyone's eyes these days. :thumbsup:
 

ECS

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There is no false claim. I told you as plain as I could that this does not disapprove or prove the Beale Papers. All I said was I had found a paper trail to where Robert Morriss died and to the author's identity. This does not prove that TJB went West seeking wild buffalo and finding a treasure in the cleft of the rocks...

As for the letters signed by Anzoletta M. Saunders, you claim they have nothing to do with the Beale Papers. Well it was at her home where Robert Morriss passed the ironbox unto the author of the Beale Papers. Where better to look for information to confirm or deny the Beale Papers.

It is the back door. The front door in 1818 of finding records of a buffalo hunt by TJB from 1817 to 1822 has been worn out and no information has been found to confirm or deny the story. So I have gone to the back door from March 5, 1856 when Robert Morriss gave his household furniture to his niece Maria M. Leftwich and giving up on house keeping. And then the date of January 3, 1863 when Robert Morriss died at the home of his niece Anzoletta M. Saunders.

If you can not see how this information can confirm the Beale Treasure as a verifiable story or a dime novel then you surely need help...
The only account of the meeting between Morriss and the "unknown author" is found in the 1885 Beale Papers, where this "unknown author" made himself a "first person" character in the story, and it has never been established if he was a real person, or if this was just a literary device usage to further the story.
 

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bigscoop

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Franklin, consider this......you and Reb have told me more then once that "nothing gets past the locals".....and yet, here is a tale rooted right in the heart of this same region and nobody took notice? Nobody knew or recognized these alleged thirty men and their extended absence? Nobody knew the universally known Thomas J. Beale and his activities? And the best part, nobody missed them or recognized their failed return, not even family, friends, business associates, etc.? Adventures out west were HUGE news during the period, yet not a single newspaper story or inquiry? Not a single family member making mention of their missing relative or of his grand adventures? I could see this if we were talking one man, but thirty! Thirty men from the region go missing and nobody cares enough to even make mention of it? Does any of this sound like the south that you know? Oh sure, you can start in with all of that super secret KGC crap, etc., but I seriously doubt that these family members, friends, business associates, would let that stand in the way of their making public inquiry into their absent and missing loved ones. And if Thomas J. Beale was universally known then somebody would have noticed and made public that he had suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth. :laughing7:
 

Rebel - KGC

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Franklin, consider this......you and Reb have told me more then once that "nothing gets past the locals".....and yet, here is a tale rooted right in the heart of this same region and nobody took notice? Nobody knew or recognized these alleged thirty men and their extended absence? Nobody knew the universally known Thomas J. Beale and his activities? And the best part, nobody missed them or recognized their failed return, not even family, friends, business associates, etc.? Adventures out west were HUGE news during the period, yet not a single newspaper story or inquiry? Not a single family member making mention of their missing relative or of his grand adventures? I could see this if we were talking one man, but thirty! Thirty men from the region go missing and nobody cares enough to even make mention of it? Does any of this sound like the south that you know? Oh sure, you can start in with all of that super secret KGC crap, etc., but I seriously doubt that these family members, friends, business associates, would let that stand in the way of their making public inquiry into their absent and missing loved ones. And if Thomas J. Beale was universally known then somebody would have noticed and made public that he had suddenly disappeared from the face of the earth. :laughing7:
HA! I was "alerted" that YOU mentioned ME, in YOUR attack, above; I have NEVER told you that "nothing gets past the locals"... NEVER! PROVE IT! NOW, both YOU, "SCOOP" & ECS, are BULLYING us, with YOUR obsession with PROVENANCE.
FURTHER, it is HARASSMENT; UNWELCOMED, UNWANTED attention of the BULLYING kind! YOU are OBSESSED! To this Thread... 20 + years of R & I on the Beale Ciphers/Treasure lead YOU to THIS...? A PITY! DO NOT blame ME for the lack of info, ALL those years, ago... I REFUSE to accept the blame; it is, what it is. I have NEVER mentioned "secret KGC crap... PROVE IT! YOU assume TOO MUCH! YOU are using the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet/"JOB PRINT" against YOURSELF by... believing FACTION, FICTION, whatever you wanna call it; YOU have proven YOUR point... now, BUGGER OFF!
 

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bigscoop

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HA! I was "alerted" that YOU mentioned ME, in YOUR attack, above; I have NEVER told you that "nothing gets past the locals"... NEVER! PROVE IT! NOW, both YOU, "SCOOP" & ECS, are BULLYING us, with YOUR obsession with PROVENANCE.
FURTHER, it is HARASSMENT; UNWELCOMED, UNWANTED attention of the BULLYING kind! YOU are OBSESSED! To this Thread... 20 + years of R & I on the Beale Ciphers/Treasure lead YOU to THIS...? A PITY! DO NOT blame ME for the lack of info, ALL those years, ago... I REFUSE to accept the blame; it is, what it is. I have NEVER mentioned "secret KGC crap... PROVE IT! YOU assume TOO MUCH! YOU are using the Beale PAPERS pamphlet/"JOB PRINT" against YOURSELF by... believing FACTION, FICTION, whatever you wanna call it; YOU have proved YOUR point... now, BUGGER OFF!


:laughing7:....Post number 3 & number 6, you openly and eagerly engaged in this thread, perhaps you need to read them again and ask yourself who between us attacked first? Wasn't me.....:laughing7:

But in any point, yes, you have made many references to the local eyes in the past and as to how they don't miss much, I'm sure you can do your own research and find some of those post as well. Apparently you think it's ok for you to jump into a thread and launch personal attack out of the blue without concern and yet you don't think others should be allowed to return fire....typical bully, I'd say. :dontknow: :laughing7:
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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:laughing7:....Post number 3 & number 6, you openly and eagerly engaged in this thread, perhaps you need to read them again and ask yourself who between us attacked first? Wasn't me.....:laughing7:

But in any point, yes, you have made many references to the local eyes in the past and as to how they don't miss much, I'm sure you can do your own research and find some of those post as well. Apparently you think it's ok for you to jump into a thread and launch personal attack out of the blue without concern and yet you don't think others should be allowed to return fire....typical bully, I'd say. :dontknow: :laughing7:

Oh, and by the way Reb, where do you see that I have blamed you by name for anything? Bet you can't find that post. :laughing7: I believe you'll discover that post 31 wasn't even addressed to you. Are you sure someone isn't simply tweaking you from the shadows to think as they need or want you to? :dontknow:

Maybe read things and check them out for yourself before you launch into wild outburst over false information? :dontknow:
 

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ECS

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The only solve I have posted is that I found where Robert Morriss died and who the author of Job Print Pamphlet was and his brother. I did not say I solved the whole mystery. And yes I do have documents to verify. I have two letters of Anzoletta Saunders, the niece of Robert Morriss and at whose home he died. The letters one is letter headed Roslin, and the date which I do not recall except 1859. The other letter has Roslin down in the far left hand corner and the date 1856. If I posted the proof you and ECS would claim that this does not prove anything...
It is interesting to note that Anzoletta Warwick Saunders died November 27, 1877, at the age of 71.
As with Pascal and Francis Buford who could confirm part of the Beale story, the story was publish after Anzoletta Saunders passed away- so there were no living eye witnesses who confirm two critical portions of the Beale story.
...except for James Beverly Ward who, contrary to popular belief created by the Hart's, NEVER confirmed the visit of this "unknown author" giving him the alleged finished manuscript.
 

legrand

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Franklin seems to feel, think or know there is a treasure based on a factual or truthful story. This is incorrect in my opinion.
Bigscoop and ECS seem to feel, think or know that there is no treasure (valuables) as the story, in their opinion, is false...untrue. This is incorrect in my opinion.
Franklin, there is a treasure. You must admit that the story is false, however.
Bigscoop and ECS, your wrong is more serious. You throw the baby out with the bathwater. Your obsession with provenance (as Reb states) is overwhelming. Skepticism is good though. Balance is needed here.
I will bring all four of you together soon. Franklin will recognize a treasure and see the light about the story and Bigscoop and ECS will eat some crow but will secretly enthuse on the cipher that was so cleverly hidden in the story.
Call me "faker" if you will...I wouldn't do that to anyone of you, however.
The way I see it, Franklin should be respected for his tenacity in length of time of research (Reb too). Bigscoop and ECS bring to the table rational discussion.
I still need some time...not long though. What I'm about to spring onto the world of Beale will be worth the time of wait.
Stop fighting...you'll need all your energy to fathom what's about to be revealed.
 

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bigscoop

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Fellas, the bottom line, "the FACTUAL line", is simply this; "If you can't establish "direct connection to the tale" then you're just assembling and manufacturing and romancing the tale to suit your own illusions." The Beale mystery is choked full of such illusions yet in the end, once all of the smoke clears, not so much as a shred of actual connection, only those who see the imaginary and/or speculative connections that they set out to discover right from the very start. Over and over again these same false claims to failed fame are played out. To this very day still not a single shred of actual connection in any of it. The "Certainty Principle".....it's alive and well in this tale. :icon_thumright:
 

ECS

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... Bigscoop and ECS bring to the table rational discussion...
...and that rational discussion has brought forth time and again the TOTAL absence of direct evidence or provenance to anything in the Beale narrative story except for the use of plausible names as characters to enhance the believability of the presented tale.
 

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bigscoop

bigscoop

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Quality research involves “a lot more” then just looking for possible connections, it also involves making aggressive inquiry into why those connections can't be, this being a burden that few, if any, “hopeful researchers” are willing to undertake for obvious reasons. However, in this day and age of easy access to information somebody somewhere is going to do this, if in fact, they haven't already done so. Right now there are several “certain solutions” being prepared, the various authors of these certain solutions completely oblivious to the contrary facts that have already been fully researched and gathered by those who routinely perform quality research and reliable fact finding. So in essence, these certain solutions are dead in the water before they're of the launching pad. Why these hopefuls have yet to recognize this is beyond me? Why they would even bother to put in all of that time and effort without having taken the time to self-check their so called facts is also beyond me? To present it as simple theory is one thing, but to attempt to still present it as fact? Just not that easy to fake it or to fool the masses these days, those days are long-long gone, which is actually a good thing.
 

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