The Square Round Table
- Thread starter L.C. BAKER
- Start date
For anyone interested, maybe nobody, here is how I became interested in KGC treasure hunting.
After failing in treasure hunting in Commerce, Tx and Gilmer Tx, and 6 trips to New Mexico for the Fenn treasure, I consulted a "professional" treasure hunter in Gilmer Tx.
He had a metal detector fix-it shop behind his house.
I had seen his sign when going to the Gimer tax office for research.
He didn't appear wealthy, and his house was small, so I had my reservations.
He is very nice, but his shop keeps him busy and he takes lots of calls from everywhere.
As with most things, he is only open during the hours I work.
So I scheduled an hour-long meeting with him, took a day of vacation from my job, and went to see him.
He got about 6 calls during the hour I was with him.
I asked him about big treasures because I was not interested in a hobby, but a treasure big enough to retire on.
Remember I am over 60 already.
He knew about other legends within driving distance and said they were all untrue in his mind.
The only treasure that might fit my requirements was some undiscovered KGC treasure.
I asked him if the KGC treasure(s) were untrue, too.
He said he knew they existed, for two reasons.
The first reason was that he had a friend that worked on a highway road crew in Louisiana.
When they were building Hwy 1 in southern Louisiana, they found not one, but two KGC caches.
When the caches were hit building the highway, they shooed everyone away and "trusted" workers loaded the loot into 55-gallon drums and loaded them into a big truck.
That was the last anyone heard of the loot.
My treasure hunter's friend was not one of the "trusted workers" but sat on a nearby hill of dirt and saw the tops of the piles of loot in the 55-gallon drums that were loaded in the truck. Bars of gold, jewelry, and other stuff (I don't remember what else, it has been 3+ years since I talked with him).
The second reason was that he (the guy I was "interviewing") gets calls from all over.
One day, a negro man called him from Louisiana and asked if he could detect gold deeply.
And wanted to hire someone to find a small building that he found as a boy plowing the family's field with his father.
As a boy, they found a building about 10 ft X 12 ft buried underground in their field.
The family did not know that KGC buildings like that were bobby-trapped.
They dug down until they could pry open the door.
When the father opened the door, a spear sprung out and injured him severely.
They took him to the hospital, and he lived.
Then after the father was healed somewhat, he tried again.
Then something sprung out again and almost decapitated him.
He died at that time.
So the family reburied the building and sold the property.
The man who called my treasure hunter friend wanted to go back and try again because he needed the money.
And he said the current owner would not let him metal detect, but he knew the sheriff.
He had talked to the sheriff and the sheriff said he could make her give permission.
My treasure hunter friend was furious that he had talked to the sheriff.
My treasure hunter friend said if they found the building with the sheriff along, then only the sheriff would make it out of the field.
So to forget the whole thing for 5 years at least.
The man from Louisiana was so sad because he said he REALLY needed the money now.
My treasure hunter friend never heard from the Louisiana man again.
Then my treasure hunter friend said that he had a book written by a good friend of his that was an expert on the KGC, Hillbilly Bob (aka Bob Brewer)
He loaned me his copy of the book.
I got Hillbilly Bob's email address and emailed him after reading the book in a day.
I wanted to go hunt treasure with him...to up my odds.
Hillbilly Bob (HBB) did know my treasure hunter friend and spoke highly of him and said he had known him for a long time.
HHB said he wrote the book attempting to educate the many treasure hunters that think most treasure sites in America are Spanish.
He said he himself made that same mistake for many years, until going through some of his family photographs and seeing all the coded messages in them.
He said his Grandpa Ashcraft was a mysterious man and he had realized that even as a child.
HHB spent several years working with the men in the woods and riding alongside his grandfather.
HBB learned to carefully watch all he and his Uncle Odis did and noted the places where they stacked rocks, buried pieces of glass, metal and even objects carved from pitch pine (since pitch pine never rots).
HBB said that some of the most important clues are made from pine knots or Osage Orangewood.
As for talking to me, he was not interested, due him having three sons, eight grandsons, and two great-grandsons who know (or will learn) his treasure secrets.
He said he had made the mistake of telling two or three "friends?" some of the secrets.
And every one of them has written on the Internet forums what he told them and one even published three books cashing in on what HBB told and showed him.
So the days of his sharing secrets are over.
He said to read in his book how he lost about 16 million dollars in 1995 dollars to a partner and his partner's family.
More recently, he told his Grandpa Ashcraft's great-grandson where gold was buried on his place and HBB was supposed to get half of all that was there.
Instead the kid bought a large cattle and chicken ranch, built a monstrous home, bought two John Deere 100 hp tractors, and two complete haying outfits.
Also, he boufgt his dad and his brother new $50,000+ Ford HD diesel 4dr trucks each.
HBB asked how much gold was in the cache and he denied ever looking for it.
HBB said he really felt bad about not sharing any information with me because there is so much more gold out there and he knows where many of the caches are.
HBB said he was old and has a sick wife to care for and has all the money he wants or needs.
All his children have new homes, new cars, and all the toys they could wish for, so he felt that he has done his part.
He was working on a book (almost finished) that will be published by his daughter after he is gone.
It will reveal more of what he did in life and more about how to find the KGC gold.
HBB said every word in the book that I read was proven by field work and documented in hard copies.
He said that most folks won't accept all that he discovered, like the Jesse James' Keechi Hills treasure in Oklahoma.
Anyway, he sounded like a really nice fella in his emails.
I chose to like him.
After failing in treasure hunting in Commerce, Tx and Gilmer Tx, and 6 trips to New Mexico for the Fenn treasure, I consulted a "professional" treasure hunter in Gilmer Tx.
He had a metal detector fix-it shop behind his house.
I had seen his sign when going to the Gimer tax office for research.
He didn't appear wealthy, and his house was small, so I had my reservations.
He is very nice, but his shop keeps him busy and he takes lots of calls from everywhere.
As with most things, he is only open during the hours I work.
So I scheduled an hour-long meeting with him, took a day of vacation from my job, and went to see him.
He got about 6 calls during the hour I was with him.
I asked him about big treasures because I was not interested in a hobby, but a treasure big enough to retire on.
Remember I am over 60 already.
He knew about other legends within driving distance and said they were all untrue in his mind.
The only treasure that might fit my requirements was some undiscovered KGC treasure.
I asked him if the KGC treasure(s) were untrue, too.
He said he knew they existed, for two reasons.
The first reason was that he had a friend that worked on a highway road crew in Louisiana.
When they were building Hwy 1 in southern Louisiana, they found not one, but two KGC caches.
When the caches were hit building the highway, they shooed everyone away and "trusted" workers loaded the loot into 55-gallon drums and loaded them into a big truck.
That was the last anyone heard of the loot.
My treasure hunter's friend was not one of the "trusted workers" but sat on a nearby hill of dirt and saw the tops of the piles of loot in the 55-gallon drums that were loaded in the truck. Bars of gold, jewelry, and other stuff (I don't remember what else, it has been 3+ years since I talked with him).
The second reason was that he (the guy I was "interviewing") gets calls from all over.
One day, a negro man called him from Louisiana and asked if he could detect gold deeply.
And wanted to hire someone to find a small building that he found as a boy plowing the family's field with his father.
As a boy, they found a building about 10 ft X 12 ft buried underground in their field.
The family did not know that KGC buildings like that were bobby-trapped.
They dug down until they could pry open the door.
When the father opened the door, a spear sprung out and injured him severely.
They took him to the hospital, and he lived.
Then after the father was healed somewhat, he tried again.
Then something sprung out again and almost decapitated him.
He died at that time.
So the family reburied the building and sold the property.
The man who called my treasure hunter friend wanted to go back and try again because he needed the money.
And he said the current owner would not let him metal detect, but he knew the sheriff.
He had talked to the sheriff and the sheriff said he could make her give permission.
My treasure hunter friend was furious that he had talked to the sheriff.
My treasure hunter friend said if they found the building with the sheriff along, then only the sheriff would make it out of the field.
So to forget the whole thing for 5 years at least.
The man from Louisiana was so sad because he said he REALLY needed the money now.
My treasure hunter friend never heard from the Louisiana man again.
Then my treasure hunter friend said that he had a book written by a good friend of his that was an expert on the KGC, Hillbilly Bob (aka Bob Brewer)
He loaned me his copy of the book.
I got Hillbilly Bob's email address and emailed him after reading the book in a day.
I wanted to go hunt treasure with him...to up my odds.
Hillbilly Bob (HBB) did know my treasure hunter friend and spoke highly of him and said he had known him for a long time.
HHB said he wrote the book attempting to educate the many treasure hunters that think most treasure sites in America are Spanish.
He said he himself made that same mistake for many years, until going through some of his family photographs and seeing all the coded messages in them.
He said his Grandpa Ashcraft was a mysterious man and he had realized that even as a child.
HHB spent several years working with the men in the woods and riding alongside his grandfather.
HBB learned to carefully watch all he and his Uncle Odis did and noted the places where they stacked rocks, buried pieces of glass, metal and even objects carved from pitch pine (since pitch pine never rots).
HBB said that some of the most important clues are made from pine knots or Osage Orangewood.
As for talking to me, he was not interested, due him having three sons, eight grandsons, and two great-grandsons who know (or will learn) his treasure secrets.
He said he had made the mistake of telling two or three "friends?" some of the secrets.
And every one of them has written on the Internet forums what he told them and one even published three books cashing in on what HBB told and showed him.
So the days of his sharing secrets are over.
He said to read in his book how he lost about 16 million dollars in 1995 dollars to a partner and his partner's family.
More recently, he told his Grandpa Ashcraft's great-grandson where gold was buried on his place and HBB was supposed to get half of all that was there.
Instead the kid bought a large cattle and chicken ranch, built a monstrous home, bought two John Deere 100 hp tractors, and two complete haying outfits.
Also, he boufgt his dad and his brother new $50,000+ Ford HD diesel 4dr trucks each.
HBB asked how much gold was in the cache and he denied ever looking for it.
HBB said he really felt bad about not sharing any information with me because there is so much more gold out there and he knows where many of the caches are.
HBB said he was old and has a sick wife to care for and has all the money he wants or needs.
All his children have new homes, new cars, and all the toys they could wish for, so he felt that he has done his part.
He was working on a book (almost finished) that will be published by his daughter after he is gone.
It will reveal more of what he did in life and more about how to find the KGC gold.
HBB said every word in the book that I read was proven by field work and documented in hard copies.
He said that most folks won't accept all that he discovered, like the Jesse James' Keechi Hills treasure in Oklahoma.
Anyway, he sounded like a really nice fella in his emails.
I chose to like him.
Last edited:
OP
OP
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
- Thread starter
- #183
50 Miles! oh my goodness!
Start with the closest one first!
We have a cipher that was found at one site and after decoding, it led us to another site almost fifty miles away. Every step along this trail has had a different heading and a different distance to travel to the next site. It would seem that their method had no logic until you see the same things in different places on different trails being done the same way with the same symbols being used for directions. There are Spanish symbols on the maps we have as well as coded cipher and symbolism.unique to this specific trail and key. The basic K.G.C. symbols used as eye-catchers are still the same - Rising Sun, Cresent Moon, R/61, Skull, and crossbones, etc to represent the society and trail markers which vary a lot with some that could be Spanish or others special to the just the K.G.C. and O.A.K. Without some direction on what to look for, it could be a lot of wasted gas money and time......or you may get lucky and find something that was left for you.
Kace
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Thanks for posting that Barn......I like to hear why people get into KGC vault hunting.
Bakers right to start in close cemeteries and work your way out.... you could be starting at the end that would point you to something tangible that you're looking for...That would be great! Hit up the small settlement cemeteries for clues too.
I've never doubted HBB has found some treasure...He's in Hatfield Arkansas as were his grandpa and uncle close by and he's hunted Missouri and Oklahoma....All those areas are rich in funds that were hidden by owners or stolen and hidden.
What I've doubted or questioned is a better word I think regarding him and other KGC authors is the KGC aspect of it.
My question has always been to ALL KGC treasure hunters including him who clearly had family influence and information...If anything from a mason jar of coins to a cave full of gold bars are found...what makes it KGC? Is there a note left with it telling its KGC and what it's to be used for or when it was left?
Nobody has ever answered that question when I've asked. I'd really like to know.
Thanks in advance to an answer!!
Kace
PS...I'm not one that thinks just because I haven't seen something I think it can't exist or be true...It's just that nobody has ever found any large amount of valuables that couldn't be traced to another source. Thats why I'd really like to know how anyone would tell for sure that it's KGC. Thanks Again for any clarification on this. Kace
Last edited:
Kace
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2017
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GoPro, RC Truck, Drone.
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Barn... What do you think about Fenn's story and hunt after making repeated trips?
Kace
Kace
I would go back again in a heartbeat if the wife would let me.
I believe the Fenn treasure is real and still unfound.
I think the treasure value is about $500k, not $2M.
I believe I have as good a "solve" as any.
I have asked the wife if I can go back for a Father's Day gift,
and she has said nothing...so odds are low.
Dang it.
I love the New Mexico area around Santa Fe.
Last edited:
Kace
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2017
- 2,099
- 4,910
- Detector(s) used
- Whites DFX, Whites Bullseye 2 Pointer, Audio 200 D Headphones,
Garrett AT MAX, Garrett Pro-Pointer AT, MS-3 Headphones,
Lesche Digger, Lesche Shovel, 4' T Handle Probe.
GoPro, RC Truck, Drone.
- Primary Interest:
- Other
I would go back again in a heartbeat if the wife would let me.
I believe the Fenn treasure is real and still unfound.
I think the treasure value is about $500k, not $2M.
I believe I have as good a "solve" as any.
I have asked the wife if I can go back for a Father's Day gift,
and she has said nothing...so odds are low.
Dang it.
I love the New Mexico area around Santa Fe.
I love Sante Fe too... gorgeous... I'm also a big fan of Taos. Those areas were the first time I ever saw a Road Runner, Teed off over a Mesa and found a CC Dollar. The Road Runner was my favorite out of the three! It's a great area for history research too. I can see why you like it there.
I've followed the Fenn story quite a bit... not all of it I'm sure...It breaks my heart how many people have been hurt and killed looking for that... what is it 4 or 5 now that have died searching for it?
I pray he's telling the truth, but it's mind boggling how many people have searched and nothing has been found... According to him as you know, it should be in an area a child or a person 80yrs old could carry it and set it down, yet folks are drowning and falling off cliffs?? I don't get any of it now and wonder if he's made this whole thing up to sell his book, especially after it was revealed that wasn't even his real name.
I was a complete believer in the beginning, no doubts that he had done this while sick and thinking he was going to die soon and wanted to be remembered for it. I never searched but was hoping for a recovery by someone who really deserved it.
I understand why your wife would worry about you going out there...Hopefully you wouldn't go alone... it's a magnet now for unsavory people to attack or kill searchers to rob them especially when so many are solo searchers due to the way he's said it's so easy to find where he put it down. I don't doubt you've got a good solve, you've had experience with the land now and think it's in that area...
Is there another area that you think you've missed...I mean have you changed your thoughts on where you think it might be? I just read a tale by a guy last nite where he positively said he had seen the chest but couldn't get to it and was having papers drawn up for recovery, legal and other things, he even posted some sort of vague contract or papers giving him permission to search an area and then in the end said he had thought he had had a good solve...but he'd try again... really a misleading post... he has it posted on YouTube also. The strange thing about that was he had posted a couple of pictures and anyone would have had to be adept at rappelling down a rocky cliff face that was over a Fast area of a river to get to where he was saying the chest was located... that wouldn't of been for your average child or 80yr old. Actually it would of excluded many people.
Did your treasure hunting friend with the repair shop ever tell you how to tell for sure if found treasure is KGC or something else? Like on the Hiway construction site... What was it that made it KGC and not from another source?
I really enjoy reading about people's experiences and thoughts on things... but then I have questions... I hope you don't mind.. it's just questioning to learn more about things that I haven't experienced first hand that they have.
Kace
Hi Kace,
Fenn was already wealthy when he wrote the book, so I don't think he did it for money or publicity.
If I die treasure hunting (like in this Texas heat) then that is one way I'd prefer to go.
I know, I know, I don't have young kids, and I do have an insurance policy for my wife to fall back on.
Regarding your comment that you were "hoping for a recovery by someone who really deserved it"…hey, hey, I deserve it…hahahaha.
Of my six times in New Mexico, the wife only went only once…because her son's kids (by her previous marriage) all wanted to go, so a bunch of us went. I prefer to go alone, as there were way too many disagreements and too much complaining on that trip. It was a miserable trip for me.
Also, since I am old/fat/out-of-shape, the women wouldn't let me go where I wanted to go without a HUGE fuss.
They don't understand treasure hunters AT ALL.
For example, last time I was in New Mexico (by myself) I fell down a hill quite a ways and landed face first (hard) against a tree.
Yes it hurt, and I immediately laughed about it.
It's not an adventure without some degree of danger.
My starting point for my solution has not changed, I just picked the wrong creek to follow (there are two).
Then I simply ran out of time as I had to catch a flight the next day. Blast!
My solve area is known for seniors "hiking" near that area for a group outing.
So it is a very safe area.
My hush-hush secret is that I believe I know what the blaze is.
When I tell folks (who won't go) what I think the blaze is, they look shocked and say, "Of course, that is it".
No, it is not a camp fire sign.
Time will tell if I am right, if I ever am allowed to go back.
Until then, if I ever am allowed to go back, I have a local KGC treasure to dig for.
My treasure hunting friend with the repair shop never did have any definitive proof that the treasures on Hwy 1 or on the farm were KGC caches.
He never investigated either after the fact.
That was just his strong belief based on the reports of so MUCH treasure-stuff seen at a distance in both the Hwy 1 and farm locations.
I never mind questions, as no one else I know (other than our TreasureNet forum friends) are interested in the treasures as much as they are for calling me a foolish old man.
Foolish or not, it is my choice.
“Life is more than love and pleasure,
I came to dig for treasure.
If you want to play, you gotta pay,
You know it's always been that way
We all came digging for treasure.”
― Stephen King, Duma Key
Fenn was already wealthy when he wrote the book, so I don't think he did it for money or publicity.
If I die treasure hunting (like in this Texas heat) then that is one way I'd prefer to go.
I know, I know, I don't have young kids, and I do have an insurance policy for my wife to fall back on.
Regarding your comment that you were "hoping for a recovery by someone who really deserved it"…hey, hey, I deserve it…hahahaha.
Of my six times in New Mexico, the wife only went only once…because her son's kids (by her previous marriage) all wanted to go, so a bunch of us went. I prefer to go alone, as there were way too many disagreements and too much complaining on that trip. It was a miserable trip for me.
Also, since I am old/fat/out-of-shape, the women wouldn't let me go where I wanted to go without a HUGE fuss.
They don't understand treasure hunters AT ALL. For example, last time I was in New Mexico (by myself) I fell down a hill quite a ways and landed face first (hard) against a tree.
Yes it hurt, and I immediately laughed about it.
It's not an adventure without some degree of danger.
My starting point for my solution has not changed, I just picked the wrong creek to follow (there are two).
Then I simply ran out of time as I had to catch a flight the next day. Blast!
My solve area is known for seniors "hiking" near that area for a group outing.
So it is a very safe area.
My hush-hush secret is that I believe I know what the blaze is.
When I tell folks (who won't go) what I think the blaze is, they look shocked and say, "Of course, that is it".
No, it is not a camp fire sign.
Time will tell if I am right, if I ever am allowed to go back.
Until then, if I ever am allowed to go back, I have a local KGC treasure to dig for.
My treasure hunting friend with the repair shop never did have any definitive proof that the treasures on Hwy 1 or on the farm were KGC caches.
He never investigated either after the fact.
That was just his strong belief based on the reports of so MUCH treasure-stuff seen at a distance in both the Hwy 1 and farm locations.
I never mind questions, as no one else I know (other than our TreasureNet forum friends) are interested in the treasures as much as they are for calling me a foolish old man.
Foolish or not, it is my choice.
“Life is more than love and pleasure,
I came to dig for treasure.
If you want to play, you gotta pay,
You know it's always been that way
We all came digging for treasure.”
― Stephen King, Duma Key
Last edited:
Kace
Bronze Member
- Aug 15, 2017
- 2,099
- 4,910
- Detector(s) used
- Whites DFX, Whites Bullseye 2 Pointer, Audio 200 D Headphones,
Garrett AT MAX, Garrett Pro-Pointer AT, MS-3 Headphones,
Lesche Digger, Lesche Shovel, 4' T Handle Probe.
GoPro, RC Truck, Drone.
- Primary Interest:
- Other
Hi Kace,
Fenn was already wealthy when he wrote the book, so I don't think he did it for money or publicity.
If I die treasure hunting (like in this Texas heat) then that a is one way I'd prefer to go.
I know, I know, I don't young kids, and I have an insurance policy for my wife.
Regarding your comment that you were "hoping for a recovery by someone who really deserved it"…hey, hey, I deserve it…hahahaha.
Of my six times in New Mexico, the wife only went only once…because her son's kids (by her previous marriage) all wanted to go, so a bunch of us went. I prefer to go alone, as there were way too many disagreements and too much complaining. Also, since I am old/fat/out-of-shape, they wouldn't let me go where I wanted to go without a HUGE fuss.
For example, last time I was in New Mexico (by myself) I fell down a hill quite a ways and landed face first (hard) against a tree.
Yes it hurt, but I immediately laughed about it.
It's not an adventure without some degree of danger.
My starting point for my solve has not changed, I just picked the wrong creek to follow (there are two).
Then I simply ran out of time as I had to catch a flight the next day. Blast!
My solve area is known for seniors "hiking" near that area for a group outing.
So it is very safe.
My hush-hush secret is that I believe I know what the blaze is.
When I tell folks (who won't go) what I think the blaze is, they look shocked and say, "Of course, that is it".
No, it is not a camp fire sign.
Time will tell if I am right, if I ever am allowed to go back.
Until then, if I ever am allowed to go back, I have a local KGC treasure to dig for.
My treasure hunting friend with the repair shop never did have any definitive proof that the treasures on Hwy 1 or on the farm were KGC caches. He never investigated either after the fact. That was just his strong belief based on there was so much treasure-stuff seen at a distance in both the Hwy 1 and farm locations.
I never mind questions, as no one else I know (other than our TreasureNet forum friends) are interested in the treasures as much as they are for calling me a foolish old man.
Foolish or not, it is my choice.
“Life is more than love and pleasure,
I came to dig for treasure.
If you want to play, you gotta pay,
You know it's always been that way
We all came digging for treasure.”
― Stephen King, Duma Key
lol... I Do Think You Derserve To Find A Big Treasure! You've sure put in the time and effort! I admire that... That falls into the Deserving Category.
You can't be that out of shape to have done all that you have. 60 is the new 40 and 80 is the new 60! It's all a mindset.
I don't care what anyone is hunting, if you're really out in the field...Stuff happens sometimes...And it is about enjoying yourself on the hunt... in a perfect world all types of hunts come to fruition with a tangible recovery but the world isn't perfect.
It would be nice if folks could work together on things... I was told very clearly after joining here that No Treasure Hunter tells the truth or would help or share information... I choose Not to believe that blanket statement... I'd help anyone I could without expecting anything in return and I believe there are others that would do that too. I've been helped by my ancestors and a favorite uncle and a really nice man that I didn't know help explain some things to me remotely. Why not help others? Fresh eyes and information on any project helps tremendously. I guess folks think others are going to jump their claim.
All it's going to take is one recovery of tangible items that without a doubt are KGC and I'm sure your family and friends will change their way of thinking... they would still worry about you, no doubt.
I don't think you are foolish either... I would if you had just relied on some story or map in a book, but you've done much more than that... every story starts somewhere and it's doing research outside of that and eliminating other things that do not seem feasible or factual that makes a difference. I was happy to see you thought the Black Book was too far fetched to believe....I've never told anyone this but I could only read 4-5 pages of it at a time before I had to stop... I just couldn't take it! lol!!
Thanks for answering on the Hiway find... You are the only one who has ever answered that question. Now maybe others will answer too. Hopefully.
I like the King poem and I Sincerely Hope you get your Fathers Day wish!!
Kace
ECS
Banned
...and this was revealed in claimed "hidden code" in the Declaration of Independence placed by Thomas Jefferson?
OP
OP
L.C. BAKER
Silver Member
- Thread starter
- #192
Kace, to answer your question about possible K.G.C. involvement with a cache being proven, In our case, when the first cache was found in the early 1970's it was not found with any knowledge of it being a K.G.C. cache or that the secret society was involved in hiding that cache. It was years later after both of the men that had been involved in locating the cache parted ways on the trail and had passed away. The K.G.C. affiliation to the treasure trail was made by My father and me after years of trying to figure out the map symbols on the map pieces and completely deciphering all of the codes that have been found so far. The most tangible evidence I think, is the secret societies symbolism they used on the trail that I have shown on here and some you have not seen, but the most incriminating things besides J.S. Morton's actions and handwritten statements, would be a heart-shaped piece and the R/61 on another map piece along with a skull and crossbones on the bottom of another with a K under the crossed swords. As Kase has pointed out before, some of those things have never been seen by the public or anyone who knew what the symbols meant except for my Father and I so you guys will just have to take my word for it at this time.. Little things like "CAIN GHOST KEY" is K.G.C. backward and the use of the animals and Spanish code etc. The circumstantial evidence I have presented about Julius Sterling Morton's involvement with the society of the K.G.C. is bountiful and easy to find in the archives but not word for word incrimination of the man or a confession. However, A picture is sometimes worth a thousand words......or more!
L.C.
L.C.
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Hi All,
If Jesse James III (whatever his name was) made up the book Jesse James Was One Of His Names,
and there were no maps included in that book....
then where did the maps come from in Roush's book The Mysterious and Secret Order of the Knights of The Golden Circle?
If Jesse James III (whatever his name was) made up the book Jesse James Was One Of His Names,
and there were no maps included in that book....
then where did the maps come from in Roush's book The Mysterious and Secret Order of the Knights of The Golden Circle?
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shooterike
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I've been interested in the James-Younger gang all of my life. When I was a little boy my Great-Grandfather, who lived to be a very old man, told many stories about them. That has been a time ago, more than 60 years. He knew Jesse James and the rest James-Younger collective as his father knew them during the Civil War. He left me a collection of tin type photos of Frank & Jesse James and other members of the gang. The photos have been authenticated. The one of Frank James is interesting in that it was taken at Evick's studio in Ashland, Ky. Just a few miles from Huntington, W.VA. near the time James-Younger gang robbed the bank there. He said Jesse and the gang got away by riding by riding in a posse "looking for themselves". Sure enough, after I retired and started researching family history, I discovered his uncles and other relatives, were bona fide LAWMEN at the time of the Huntington Bank was robbed!
OP
OP
L.C. BAKER
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This is a Line of Position heading marker left during a time when the James gang was very active in the Nebraska City to St. Joseph and Rulo trail along the Missouri River. I have always thought they were involved in this particular K.G.C. trail that stretches between two states. We know Jesse and Frank were here on several occasions meeting with the right people at the right times from 1872 through 1882 and maybe far beyond that in 1904 if you care to speculate and look closer at the fellow seated on the left end drawing more attention than the Morton brothers President Teddy Roosevelt and Andrew Carnegie who is seated on the right.
P.S. Teddy is the nervous looking fellow with his arms crossed over his chest. Could be the crowd of monopolists that he was standing in made the ol' "TRUST BUSTER" a little nervous around his Bros.
P.S. Teddy is the nervous looking fellow with his arms crossed over his chest. Could be the crowd of monopolists that he was standing in made the ol' "TRUST BUSTER" a little nervous around his Bros.
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Kace
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I've been interested in the James-Younger gang all of my life. When I was a little boy my Great-Grandfather, who lived to be a very old man, told many stories about them. That has been a time ago, more than 60 years. He knew Jesse James and the rest James-Younger collective as his father knew them during the Civil War. He left me a collection of tin type photos of Frank & Jesse James and other members of the gang. The photos have been authenticated. The one of Frank James is interesting in that it was taken at Evick's studio in Ashland, Ky. Just a few miles from Huntington, W.VA. near the time James-Younger gang robbed the bank there. He said Jesse and the gang got away by riding by riding in a posse "looking for themselves". Sure enough, after I retired and started researching family history, I discovered his uncles and other relatives, were bona fide LAWMEN at the time of the Huntington Bank was robbed!
Hi Shooter... That's interesting... are you writing a book about this? Would you post some of your tin type pics of the James-Younger band please? Those would be very nice to see!
Thanks!
Kace
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Kace
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Hey Barn...From what I could tell on my study of the KGC... Houk, Howk, The Hawk, Lee Haw, Jesse R. James, Jesse Lee James, Jesse James III and the other names that he went by were used on most of these KGC Maps. I researched authors, blogs, downloaded free books or read them on free trials online or audiobooks and also went through the maps online. Howks are pretty easy to identify as I'm sure you know.
Dalton, Houk and Rousch were friends... more so Houk and Rousch due to Dalton dying earlier... which is why he has posted maps. He believes that Dalton was JJ... I don't, but I respect others thoughts as long as thoughts or beliefs are not stated as fact..without proof.
The map that Griffith and Brewer were using on the Gillespie Sisters property that Brewer told you about is a well known area in Oklahoma for Outlaw activity. Some of the maps if you look at them side by side have been added to or parts left out. According to the Gillespie sisters (they've since sold that land) the money was recovered by trespassing without their permission... they had put up trail cams.
There's also more maps out that are linked to other families that claim their ancestor was Jesse or Frank James. I know of one in Missouri besides the obvious one, one in Oklahoma, Pastore's Kansas claim, and one for sure in Texas that is trying to sell a map for One Million $$$ even though he's been proven not to be JWJ and possibly another in Texas. There's two in Arkansas that claim Jesse and Frank James were their ggrandfathers and there's several more I haven't mentioned. No wonder it's hard to weed things out... Tell 10 random people to meet you at Jesse James Grave and see where everyone goes..lol! Everyone is entitled to their own thoughts though.
We can't post links to other discussion groups here but I can post maps if there's more you want to see. You've probably found them though in your research... you can let me know if there's something you want to see and if I have it I'll get it to you.
If you haven't done this go back all the way here in the KGC sub forum and look at those maps and read the discussions. You've probably already done that though.
Kace
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Kace
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Kace
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Thanks for posting this LC... two things grab my attention... the marker... I can't make out what it says... looks good though. What does the carving on the stone say?
The other is Rulo... Do you mean Rulo, Nebraska? Let me know if that's where you mean and then I'll say what I'd like to.
Here's another statement regarding Jesse and Frank James marrying Zee and Annie respectively just 6 weeks apart... Jesse and Zee in May of 1874 and Frank and Annie in June of 1874. That was a busy year.
Kace
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Monuments and headstones were also left with messages... the picture that I posted of the fake child's grave... the stone was correct that it was originally dug in 1862...this one had been added to once later during the war to protect things that these folks didn't want to lose to militias. When it was added to the last time it was under the guise of planting a flowered bush that has had starts taken off of it and has been planted and grown at every generations home since the war... my grandmother planted a start of It at my first home and the next one and so on. My parents had starts of it at their places. I'll have to think of the name of it... I think it starts with an H... Hysenthia or something like that. It gets big.
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I asked my Mother the name of the bush that was planted on the fake grave and it was an Hibiscus. Thank God for her memory of these things... she's got a mind like a steel trap and it keeps me from having to look at the journals! lol
Kace
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I asked my Mother the name of the bush that was planted on the fake grave and it was an Hibiscus. Thank God for her memory of these things... she's got a mind like a steel trap and it keeps me from having to look at the journals! lol
Kace
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