THE THREAD OF TRUTHS and nutters

[rochha]

Cubfan64,
Quote:
" I think probably what happens, is that people have invested so much of their time, lives and money into their personal searches that it can be infuriating to think that someone else may have "stumbled" onto something they think they deserved to find due to their hard work and research. I think also, once you've invested so much time, work and effort into your search, you begin to put more and more faith into your theory(ies) which makes it significantly more difficult to believe anyone elses theories if they don't agree ".

Very well put, so much truth to that statement.

Rochha

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

How to Research for Treasure Hunting and Metal Detecting From Lead Generation to Vetting - Grab it through Amazon!

[Peerless67]

nice one Dan. shame the government has so much power over such a thing, have you considered a consortium to spread the cost of the permits and Ologists ?. might be the way to go, how did your cons pan out from the ore samples?
I think I read somewhere you can rock hound 200 or 250lbs of rock a day

 

[Seventytwo]

Peerless 67, Things did not pan out so well, but this fall I intend to take a trip back to the mine for some better samples. This time I will have then assayed though. The last time I was there I only got a couple of small samples. Truthfully, I never even got a small sample from the pit mine.
Next time when I go back though. I intend to take some more treasure hunters in with me, to see if they can disprove this mine as the Lost Dutchman. I think that is the only way to either prove or disprove this mine.
Because I have not been able to disprove this mine to myself as being the Lost Dutchmans.
As far as the rock hounding, you better bring a pick to get these rocks. Digging within the Superstitions after all is a crime.

Dan Adams

 

[Seventytwo]

Bowman, Heart Stone map
Heart Stone
One of the Peralta mine is located under the Northeast side, that is why we have a heart stone map.

 

[the blindbowman]

your right on the money want a shovel .......LOL

 

[Oroblanco]

Seventytwo wrote:

Things did not pan out so well, but this fall I intend to take a trip back to the mine for some better samples.

Greetings Seventytwo,

Your statement there raises quite a question. With all due respect, if your own samples did not pan out a good deal of gold, why do you conclude that what you have found is in fact the Lost Dutchman mine? There are quite a number of old holes in the ground (both shafts and tunnels) scattered about in the Superstitions, dug by early Dutch-hunters, that did not produce a whit of gold. It happens all-too-often that someone finds one of these old holes, which were never mines much less the Lost Dutchman gold mine, and then pronounces to the world that he (or she!) has found the infamous Lost Dutchman. Books and even movies have been produced based on the finding of some of these old holes in the ground, none of which are gold mines. Quartz veins are a fairly common thing, and not all quartz holds gold or silver - so finding a quartz vein does not equate with finding a vein of gold or silver.

If your conclusion that your discovery IS the Lost Dutchman is based on the "clues" that apparently fit with the hole, but NOT on the ore itself, your conclusion might well be in error - for the hole might have been dug by an earlier Dutch-hunter (they have been digging and searching since 1891 after all) based on the spot "fitting" with the very same "clues".

This is why my own position is that the ONLY way to "prove" that one has in fact found the Lost Dutchman mine, is by bringing out samples of the ore that MATCH the known existing samples of Lost Dutchman ore. It would then be possible to match up what ever "clues" truly DO fit with the location afterwards. Just my opinion...

Good luck and good hunting to you (and everyone) I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[Seventytwo]

Oro, I respect your opinion, but how do we know that the samples are truly from the Lost Dutchman mine?

 

[Springfield]

Oro, I respect your opinion, but how do we know that the samples are truly from the Lost Dutchman mine?

72 - you only have someone else's word for it.

 

[Seventytwo]

What is the oldest recorded newspaper article on the lost Dutchman. Dose any one know, or have a copy of it.
Paper trails help to establish a time line. If there had been a large amount of gold underJacobs bed. The local paper should have ran a story on this. dose anyone have a copy of this story.

 

[Jeffro]

The one thing that can be said TRUTHFULLY about the Lost Dutchman Mine is that 90% (or more) of the info out there is pure speculation.

Everyone who has hunted this particular will o' the wisp has their own particular slant on the info, and many times many different trails are followed. They can't all be true, and they can't all be false. Just what the particular searcher chooses to believe. Thus the heated discussions sometimes.

 

[Oroblanco]

That tears it Djui5! Now I am offended! Just kidding of course!

I don't want to be the 'wet blanket' all the time, just there have been many mistakes where this Lost Dutchman mine is concerned and the mistakes just keep on happening. Sometimes it is humorous, other times it is tragic. When someone comes forward and says he or she has found the Lost Dutchman, that statement is just a little bit astonishing, especially for those who have expended a good deal of time and effort on trying to find it, for some it is a lifetime. To a person who has made the claim, such "doubt" may seem silly or even insulting, which can lead to some unpleasant exchanges, but the finder should keep in mind how astonishing his/her claim truly is - because over 100,000 people have searched for that mine without finding it, and over 100 have claimed to have found it (however only ONE apparently did, and he died shortly afterwards.) So your fellow "Dutch-hunters" always ask for some kind(s) of "proof" that can substantiate the claim that someone has indeed found the Lost Dutchman. It is not that they instantly suspect you are a liar or just a teller of tall tales. That "proof" requirement mentioned above, is different for each person - and here is one of the 'rubs'.

With so many "clues" (over 100 by the last count) and "maps" (I can't recall how many, but there are a BUNCH) it is incredulous that ALL of them can possibly be related to the original lost gold mine in white quartz that was worked by Jacob Waltz and Jacob Weiser. So really the only thing which has been verified as being original to that mine is the ore itself, which is unlike the ore of any other known source, or at least enough unlike any other to make it possible for the experts to tell almost at a glance. So speaking for myself ONLY, I would want to see a sample of the ore, and have that ore compared to known samples (at least one) from the Lost Dutchman by an expert in geology who could verify or deny that it is from the same source.

The many myths and even lies connected with the Lost Dutchman mine have served well to confuse and mislead the Dutch-hunters over the years, especially for newbies just starting out, perhaps from reading a single article or hearing it at the local tavern. It does give me an idea however...

Oroblanco

 

[Peerless67]

It doesn't matter - you are ALL wrong, but I know where the LDM is.

I saw it while I was flying in my hot air balloon in 1991!!!




B

And just who was providing the hot air for this balloon?, bowman where were you in 1991?

 

[Peerless67]

Hmm let me see £1500 GBP = $3000 US , its very tempting.
Tell me bowman, you claim you can prove it 100%?
If thats the case would you be prepared to sign an agreement if I were to bankroll expedition 3?

Lets say along the lines of, if you fail you you make an instant repayment of the funding. let me know il talk to a lawyer

 

[Cubfan64]

if i had $3000 i would be down there and met you at the frist water trail head and i could prove it in 3 hours out right fact , no questions about it at all

That's a pretty strong statement there BB. I think you could easily gather $3000 from amongst some of the people on this forum (myself included) with the caveat that each of us is allowed to come along to take photos, film, take notes etc... to see your proof.

The ball is in your court now.

 

[the blindbowman]

i got a better idea . wait and after expedition 3 i will post them here at the site for free . may 1st 2008 . i dont need the money its a matter of my hobbies paying for them selfs ,if i did do something like that what lawyer would not try to brake the contract .... if we did met at the trail head and i lay my chips on the table you wont be able to go in the mts for a few hours .... because you will be in shock lol ......i was not jokeing this is not a game of a dream or a vission ,....

PS i will back that statement up ... 3 hours from the trail head i can be standing at the LDM pit ...it would be very hard but not imposable .. the save thing to do would be to get to the hiden camp and then go up the next morning ....i beleive thats why the dutchman was gone 3 days into the mt at a time not counting getting to the mts....so you are talking at lest 5 days each trip ... back then ... now days if i started out at sun rise i can bethere in 3 hours and stay a hour and then head back out it would run you into the ground to try it like that .. but i will stand by my statement i can reach the pit in 3 hours ...

you could reach black top in 3 hours by foot with a load ...

 

[Peerless67]

i got a better idea . wait and after expedition 3 i will post them here at the site for free . may 1st 2008 . i dont need the money its a matter of my hobbies paying for them selfs ,if i did do something like that what lawyer would not try to brake the contract .... if we did met at the trail head and i lay my chips on the table you wont be able to go in the mts for a few hours .... because you will be in shock lol ......i was not jokeing this is not a game of a dream or a vission ,....

PS i will back that statement up ... 3 hours from the trail head i can be standing at the LDM pit ...it would be very hard but not imposable .. the save thing to do would be to get to the hiden camp and then go up the next morning ....i beleive thats why the dutchman was gone 3 days into the mt at a time not counting getting to the mts....so you are talking at lest 5 days each trip ... back then ... now days if i started out at sun rise i can bethere in 3 hours and stay a hour and then head back out it would run you into the ground to try it like that .. but i will stand by my statement i can reach the pit in 3 hours ...

you could reach black top in 3 hours by foot with a load ...

well if you got tired bowman you could always stop in the little house in the cave, that might not be such a bad idea as it would afford you some protection from the magnetic field, although its probably a bummer to get a tv signal.

 

[the blindbowman]

if i had $3000 i would be down there and met you at the frist water trail head and i could prove it in 3 hours out right fact , no questions about it at all

That's a pretty strong statement there BB. I think you could easily gather $3000 from amongst some of the people on this forum (myself included) with the caveat that each of us is allowed to come along to take photos, film, take notes etc... to see your proof.

The ball is in your court now.

if you could not trust me , why would i want your money ! . i am not in this for the wealth .... i am commoner and dont value money ...

 

[Peerless67]

BB i think randys question is why do you need $3000 and since YOU said if you had $3000 right now you would go it seems like a reasonable question

 

[Cubfan64]

if i had $3000 i would be down there and met you at the frist water trail head and i could prove it in 3 hours out right fact , no questions about it at all

That's a pretty strong statement there BB. I think you could easily gather $3000 from amongst some of the people on this forum (myself included) with the caveat that each of us is allowed to come along to take photos, film, take notes etc... to see your proof.

The ball is in your court now.

if you could not trust me , why would i want your money ! . i am not in this for the wealth .... i am commoner and dont value money ...

I don't understand this comment BB - I've only recently started posting here and have never said anything about not trusting you - on the contrary, I defended your posts as being important and useful.

Your statement was that all you needed was $3000 and you would meet at the trailhead and show proof. I'm not a LDM hunter (other than having read some of the stories) and am also a "commoner" as you put it. I have no vested interest in finding the LDM other than to say I was there when it was located and for the sheer adventure of it.

Your "better idea" is only better for you in that all you have to do is show photos - I would hazard a guess that NOBODY (yourself included) would trust a photo as 100% proof of anything. I would love to physically be there to see and touch the sites that would make history - I can't think of anything more exciting for someone with TH'ing in their blood! To be there in person and eventually see an assay of ore that matches the LDM gold is the only true way to prove anything.

If you want to keep the site secret and don't trust anyone else to come along - that's fully understandable, however you threw the statement out there that you only need $3000 dollars to do it - my offer still stands. I'll help fund this if I can join you - I want absolutely nothing more out of this than to be there in person and I'll sign whatever documents you want signed (within reason of course). If you don't want to do that, then you shouldn't make comments you can't back up.

I am casting no doubt whatsoever on your claim, in fact I have no reason not to believe you - I'm just offering you funds to help accomplish it with the guarantee that I can come along.

PM me if you want - we can talk by phone or whatever. This could be a once in a lifetime opportunity for me and I'm willing to risk $3000 to do it.

 

[Peerless67]

I make that 2 $3000 offers, why anyone would need $3000 is beyond me but just like you cubfan i think that would be cheap at half the price to see the LDM first hand so to speak