THE THREAD OF TRUTHS and nutters

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO PEEPS: Sheesh, am I the only one in here that is a brilliant, handsome, devil may care swash buckling adventurist, a loveable true man in all respects, a genius, a -------- heck either DJUI or ORO can fill in the rest.--Gullum is excluded , he knows me too well.

However, despite the fact that I am probably the only one qualified, as noted above, I think that all personal characteristics should be in another thread, So I am starting one. I fully expect / hope will remain one with the lowest no of hits and posts in TN's history, which is as it should be. Personal defamation without knowing the person intimately and all details, should have no place in here.

Name calling and defamation are not the same as asking normal, logical questions, including proof of a statement where possible..

Don Jose de La Mancha EL SAINT

 

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[Peerless67]

I have to say Joe I take as I find, and you will note I question anything I have doubts about. In paticular it would seem on the face of things that BB comes in for some considerable amount of stick from me, however when he makes outrageous claims, wether true or false I find myself having to question them. This is not a slur on the man but rather his claims. This is a public arena and since we are all adults we engage in debate, sometimes this involves questioning someones claims. I am no expert in the LDM infact im probably the least knowedgeable person who posts on this thread. Ive made no secret of it. on another thread I claimed that I had found the LDM on mars, this was purely to show that anyone can make the claim, but if you ask me to prove it I cant. fortunately for me no one has questioned it. but if It were in my eyes true then I would welcome questioning as this would give me a chance to either put up or shut up. I extend that same curtesy to anyone who makes an unproven claim and question it. it is the nature of the beast. But let me assure each and everyone of you I am a genuine person, friendly and sociable, I have honour and trust, I take as much stick as I hand out and I never cry about it, and further more I never take it personally but with humour and grace. those with weak constitutions should spare themselves of ridicule by not posting ridiculous claims that have no basis unless their aim is to recieve both contructive critisism and questioning of any other nature. I personaly hold all of you guys on the forum with respect, if I attack anyones claims let it be known that it is only in the pursuit of the truth and reguardless of how heated it ever gets I do not lose respect for anyone as a human being. but i do not and will not just nod my head in agreement with anything I dont see as proved and when im unsure I keep my mouth shut or I ask.

Gary Tobias Decardifer Shaft Peerless

 

[Old Dog]

Yup, nod, nod.....


Yup, yup, yup.

Honk, Honk

Nod, nod.

Hey this is fun......yup.

LoL
OD

 

[Seventytwo]

Dan,
2 things. First off, I can disprove your "mine" really easily. You said you took a sample and crushed it up, finding little or no gold, then you go on to say "well the Dutchmans mine must have been a low grade mine". That sir is absurd. Have you ever seen the ore from under his death bed? You wouldn't have to crush a damn thing, you'd see the gold right there in your face before you even took it out of the mountain side. So I'm debunking your mine right now.

2nd, I'd advise you to please see a psychiatrist. You seem to have delusions of paranoia that are astounding.



Randy, Have you ever been to the Charlot Hall Museum?
They have archives their, History since the beginning of this territory, you can learn a lot there. Did you know that there is no recorded story of the Lost Dutchman mine prior to the story of Adolf Ruth in 1931.
Yet the Skeleton Canyon treasure and the Adams diggings had both been recorded before the turn of the 1900's.
So you are telling all of the readers here, that the so gold that was found under an old mans bed, but never recorded, is enough to DE bunk my mine.
It would seem that you need to do some more research Randy.
Truth of the matter is that, there are just as many stories that say the lost dutchman was a high grader from the Vulture mine. But none of these where recorded before 1930 either, My gosh which story do I chose?
Now let me give you a fact kid!
Fact!
The written dirctions to the Lost Dutchman Gold mine, say that the mine lays within a five mile radius of Weaver Needle, Upper La barge canyon is easily within that radius.
Since I like the Dons so much?
I will do the people that are keeping up with this thread a little math. Now a five mile radius, and if I am wrong someone please correct me, times 3.3 = 16.5 Square miles divided by fifty dons = .33. So using this calculation, if all of the Dons Club members where to go into the area around Weaver Needle and each one of the where to search a prescribe location of .33 of a mile in one day.
Oh silly me I forgot, the dons Club has been around since 1930 and it is now 2007. So, 2007-1930=77 years, so the final number would be .33 divided by 77 which = .004286 of a mile a piece.
Makes you wounder?
How come the men that promote the Lost Dutchman mine cant find it, these men have written eighty books on the subject, yet the did not put in enough effort to search just a little more that a 1/4 mile piece in one day.

Randy I was walk in in bull crap, when you was still put-in it in diapers kid!
Dan Adams

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

Really nice job of trying to smooth things over. That oughta do it just fine.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

Did you know that there is no recorded story of the Lost Dutchman mine prior to the story of Adolf Ruth in 1931.

Well Sir, there are many newspaper articles written to the contrary. I'd like to advise you to expound your research beyond the Charlot Hall Museum.

The written dirctions to the Lost Dutchman Gold mine, say that the mine lays within a five mile radius of Weaver Needle

Where did that clue originate from?

[quote
Randy I was walk in in bull crap, when you was still put-in it in diapers kid!
Dan Adams

Age has nothing to do with it. BTW Dan, my comment about the psychiatrist was not intended to be an insult, but a true plea from a fellow concerned human being. You seem to have delusions, and I feel you should seek some help about them. I'm being serious here.
[/quote]

dont worry djui5 i would rather have you on a expedition then 10 Dans ....thats why you were on the list for expedition 2 and now still on the list for expedition 3 ......
even if i did not know you well enough to make the expedition two dead line . it did not mean i did not trust you ..

as for Dan i out right agree ...

i may be very open minded . and dare to step out of the box at will but i no what delusions are .....


another name for them is THC .....lol

 

[BLACKFOOT]

I know I take my meds on a regular basis so I KNOW no one will ever file a claim on this MINE. They are not allowed in these mts.
You could file a treasure trove claim if you found where already mined gold was stashed that is if you were that Stoopidd.


Blackfoot

I know about BOB.

 

[cactusjumper]

Randy,

"what, I was serious"

Well,........So was I then.

Joe

 

[BILL96]

Seventytwo,
I have a few questions about the Dons club, why are they so important? are they like the mafia? do they engage in illeagl activites?, what do they do that is so terrible?. All I can see is they have spen t way too many years promoting the legand of the LDM, is that a crime?have they killed anyone?. Just what is their crime? do they have a mission statemant?. Anyone who spends anytime doing research knows that you must always take everything you read with a grain of salt, you question everything. If someone has died looking for the LDM that is always unfortunte but is that the fault of the Dons club?. Why do you dislike them so ? help me understand.
Bill

 

[the blindbowman]

Seventytwo,
I have a few questions about the Dons club, why are they so important? are they like the mafia? do they engage in illeagl activites?, what do they do that is so terrible?. All I can see is they have spen t way too many years promoting the legand of the LDM, is that a crime?have they killed anyone?. Just what is their crime? do they have a mission statemant?. Anyone who spends anytime doing research knows that you must always take everything you read with a grain of salt, you question everything. If someone has died looking for the LDM that is always unfortunte but is that the fault of the Dons club?. Why do you dislike them so ? help me understand.
Bill

they are not in the Mafia...

 

[Oroblanco]

The 'clue' about the within five miles of Weaver's Needle appears to have originated with the journal found among Adolph Ruth's belongings, in which he penned:

It lies within an imaginery circle whose diameter is not more than 5 miles and whose center is marked by the Weaver's Needle, about 2500 feet high, among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock.
(From the journal of Adolph Ruth, found with his remains)

This passage has been taken by many to mean that the Lost Dutchman mine is being referred to, when Ruth's papers make no mention of Waltz or the Dutchman, only a lost mine.

As for the Dons Club, I too have some suspicions about their possible involvement, but only suspicions, and even if they were involved, their motive might have been positive - to increase the tourism of the area etc.

Oroblanco

 

[Seventytwo]

Gentlemen,
Let me see if I can put a few things into context for you. All of you seem to think that I hate the Dons Club, let me make this clear to everyone reading this forum.
I have only ever met one of the 50 Dons, his name is Gregory Davis and he was very polite to me. When we had are meeting I Gave him a copy of my book, Then I assured him that what I had to say was not personal.
The treasure hunt that I was on, is exactly what is written within the pages of the book, right down to the names. This book was written completely out of memory and I did not make anything up.
The last chapter of the book, "is my chapter," and only in that chapter will you find me giving my honest opinion of what is going on inside the Superstition Mountains. The rest of the book is based on facts that have been give to us by History.
Dose this make me hate the Dons Club, the answer to that is no, I do not hate the Dons Club. I do not agree with their personal morals, But I do not judge a man complete on that, after all, I am no saint myself. We all have are faults.
You will find that I have never posted on the other web site. If the Dons want to promote their Gold mine there, I don't care, let them, This is America and that is their choice. It is called buyer beware?
But then "YOU GUYS" came to this wed site, I think we all know why you are here, but then we been through that subject before.
So now it comes down to why I am here? They say Adolf Ruth came to Arizona from back east to search for a legendary mine. a mine hidden within the a vast mountain range called the Superstitions. But instead of a gold mine, he found his death.
Personally, I don't think that Adolf Ruth even existed?
But that is just my opinion, I personally have not tried to track down his family to make sure that he did existed.
but it is the later part of the story that concerns me GUYS.
have any of you ever crawled two miles crossed a desert. well I have, I hobbled five,crawled two. This happened the day I found the Lost Dutchman gold mine.
Now this is where my personal morals come into play. Do I just sit back and watch as YOU GUYS try to convince some kid from back east, that he indeed can find the Lost Dutchman Gold mine. Just because he has a theory and YOU GUYS are in suppot of it. Then the next thing we see is him being air evacuated out of the mountains on the news.
No, I am sorry, but I will not!
People will hike in to the Superstitions and get hurt, that is a fact.
But to let them be missled into the Superstitions anymore.
Sorry, I can not do that!
So that leaves us all stuck with this mess

Peerless, did you send me an email at my web site about two years ago?
I received an email out of the UK, but I couldn't, get the reply to go back.

Randy, to say you are not a kid, means you have to stop being childlike?

Dan Adams

 

[Seventytwo]

The 'clue' about the within five miles of Weaver's Needle appears to have originated with the journal found among Adolph Ruth's belongings, in which he penned:

It lies within an imaginery circle whose diameter is not more than 5 miles and whose center is marked by the Weaver's Needle, about 2500 feet high, among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock.
(From the journal of Adolph Ruth, found with his remains)

This passage has been taken by many to mean that the Lost Dutchman mine is being referred to, when Ruth's papers make no mention of Waltz or the Dutchman, only a lost mine.

As for the Dons Club, I too have some suspicions about their possible involvement, but only suspicions, and even if they were involved, their motive might have been positive - to increase the tourism of the area etc.

Oroblanco


Oroblanco, That is some good treasure hunting there. Most people would have never questioned the fact that the Lost Dutchman is not mentioned in the dairy.
In fact he was after the Peralta mines, if I remember right.
Have you ever read anything, that tells us what the exact connection is between the two?
Everthing that I can remember reading says the Peralta story is one story, and the Dutchman is another?
Now you have my mind working?

Dan Adams

 

[cactusjumper]

Mr. Adams,

I will not address the Adolph Ruth comment, because it shows a lack of any real research on your part.

"I do not hate the Dons Club. I do not agree with their personal morals, But I do not judge a man complete on that, after all, I am no saint myself. We all have are faults."

I only have two questions: Since you say you have only met one member of the Don's Club, how can you say you "do not agree with their personal morals"? What do you believe "their personal morals" consist of?

Thanks,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Seventytwo wrote:

Have you ever read anything, that tells us what the exact connection is between the two?

Walt Gassler's personal notes for one place that comes to mind, Walt was fairly convinced that the Peralta mine tale was the true tale, and Waltz's story was fantasy. The connections between what Adolph Ruth was searching for and the Dutchman seem to be the result of people leaping to conclusions; eg "Well Ruth is going up into the Superstitions to hunt for a lost mine - so it MUST be the same one as Waltz's".

Toward the end of his life Gassler seems to have changed his mind, and remember he is the only one who has ever brought out a piece of ore that matched the ore from Waltz, and that right after he told Kollenborn and Corbin that he had finally figured out where it really is. Unfortunately Gassler died on his way out, his personal diary that he carried in his pocket vanished, and all we have are his notes that did NOT accompany him on his last fatal expedition.

If you read through the older posts in several threads here under Lost Dutchman heading, you will find numerous warnings to newbies and neophytes NOT to venture into the Superstitions, (posted by the very same folks we have here now) as they are indeed a relatively dangerous place, in particular for someone un-prepared or just a little bit careless. On these grounds, I agree that it is not good to encourage newbies to "go in" however I am pretty sure most of the folks you are discussing the subject with here are fairly experienced, some have a good deal of experience. With a reasonable amount of caution people with little or no experience venture into the Superstitions and return safely, though I would sure recommend any newbie to join up with an experienced hand and try not to venture far from the established trails for their first few trips at least. There are few places so beautiful as the Superstitions, and other places are (arguably) as dangerous or nearly so that receive even more visitors than there.

Sometimes a simple unlucky mishap can lead to a life or death situation, and I suspect this is what happened to you - I have had a few such incidents myself over the years, only one in the Superstitions however. The backcountry of this continent is still very much a wild place and even a simple thing as twisting your ankle by a loose rock you happened to step on, can turn a lovely exciting trip into a struggle to stay alive and get OUT.

As with any wilderness place, anyone venturing IN should make it a rule to always tell someone responsible where you are going (as close as possible) and when you expect to be OUT - and then make sure you notify that responsible person the moment you are back to civilization.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

 

[the blindbowman]

The 'clue' about the within five miles of Weaver's Needle appears to have originated with the journal found among Adolph Ruth's belongings, in which he penned:

It lies within an imaginery circle whose diameter is not more than 5 miles and whose center is marked by the Weaver's Needle, about 2500 feet high, among a confusion of lesser peaks and mountainous masses of basaltic rock.
(From the journal of Adolph Ruth, found with his remains)

This passage has been taken by many to mean that the Lost Dutchman mine is being referred to, when Ruth's papers make no mention of Waltz or the Dutchman, only a lost mine.

As for the Dons Club, I too have some suspicions about their possible involvement, but only suspicions, and even if they were involved, their motive might have been positive - to increase the tourism of the area etc.

Oroblanco


Oroblanco, That is some good treasure hunting there. Most people would have never questioned the fact that the Lost Dutchman is not mentioned in the dairy.
In fact he was after the Peralta mines, if I remember right.
Have you ever read anything, that tells us what the exact connection is between the two?
Everthing that I can remember reading says the Peralta story is one story, and the Dutchman is another?
Now you have my mind working?

Dan Adams

that not total true . seventytwo, yes i have .when the stones are correctly translated they do in fact relate Ruths data dirrectly with the stones ... 100% no question about it ! ...


everyone else has failed to correctly translate them . it dose not mean the conection is not there .. because it is there !


there are 11 people some of them at this site that can help prove this ..

i can for a fact explan every word of Ruth's note and why .....

you could spend a life time trying to find the right translation . or you could find a master map maker and he could find it in mintues if he is skilled ...


the facts are there , and have gone unnoted . do to the failar of those translateing ...


if you wanted to read a rare paper from the 1200 bc would you try to read it your self ? or should you go to someone that knows that lanquage .... ?

 

[the blindbowman]

Seventytwo wrote:

Have you ever read anything, that tells us what the exact connection is between the two?

Walt Gassler's personal notes for one place that comes to mind, Walt was fairly convinced that the Peralta mine tale was the true tale, and Waltz's story was fantasy. The connections between what Adolph Ruth was searching for and the Dutchman seem to be the result of people leaping to conclusions; eg "Well Ruth is going up into the Superstitions to hunt for a lost mine - so it MUST be the same one as Waltz's".

Toward the end of his life Gassler seems to have changed his mind, and remember he is the only one who has ever brought out a piece of ore that matched the ore from Waltz, and that right after he told Kollenborn and Corbin that he had finally figured out where it really is. Unfortunately Gassler died on his way out, his personal diary that he carried in his pocket vanished, and all we have are his notes that did NOT accompany him on his last fatal expedition.

If you read through the older posts in several threads here under Lost Dutchman heading, you will find numerous warnings to newbies and neophytes NOT to venture into the Superstitions, (posted by the very same folks we have here now) as they are indeed a relatively dangerous place, in particular for someone un-prepared or just a little bit careless. On these grounds, I agree that it is not good to encourage newbies to "go in" however I am pretty sure most of the folks you are discussing the subject with here are fairly experienced, some have a good deal of experience. With a reasonable amount of caution people with little or no experience venture into the Superstitions and return safely, though I would sure recommend any newbie to join up with an experienced hand and try not to venture far from the established trails for their first few trips at least. There are few places so beautiful as the Superstitions, and other places are (arguably) as dangerous or nearly so that receive even more visitors than there.

Sometimes a simple unlucky mishap can lead to a life or death situation, and I suspect this is what happened to you - I have had a few such incidents myself over the years, only one in the Superstitions however. The backcountry of this continent is still very much a wild place and even a simple thing as twisting your ankle by a loose rock you happened to step on, can turn a lovely exciting trip into a struggle to stay alive and get OUT.

As with any wilderness place, anyone venturing IN should make it a rule to always tell someone responsible where you are going (as close as possible) and when you expect to be OUT - and then make sure you notify that responsible person the moment you are back to civilization.

Good luck and good hunting, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.

Oroblanco

right now there is one dirrect conection between the two me ....i total you all that i beleived the stones were tablets from the temple mont , that had been broke of and were used by the templar to make these stones .. i showed you prove the templars were the only ones able to make them .

i showed you prove that the stones were made in the 1200Ad - 1300 AD time span .. this can not be facted ..... for these facts to all be related between the ruth map and the stones . the mine is real and dose conect all these facters togather ...

i even pionted out a statement that explaned why and no one even related to that statement ... you are all blinded by the greed of gold ....


get over it and lets go recover these sites ...

 

[Peerless67]

QUOTE:" i even pionted out a statement that explaned why and no one even related to that statement ... you are all blinded by the greed of gold ....


get over it and lets go recover these sites ..."


1% Ologist 99% treasure hunter

 

[the blindbowman]

"Personally, I don't think that Adolf Ruth even existed?"


not only did Ruth existed . he had some what translated the the map and dirrections . i can prove that witrhout a dout !

there are coded transalations that prove this 100% ...


i stated i had my reasons to beleive the why Ruth was killed and by who ....

it would not have matter .... they still could not translate the what ruth had ... and he would have died before saying a word ...


and most likely did just that ...

 

[Peerless67]

quote: "not only did Ruth existed . he had some what translated the the map and dirrections . i can prove that witrhout a dout !

there are coded transalations that prove this 100% ..."




you see bowman this is the problem, look at your quote!!!
"I can prove this without a doubt"
"there are coded translations that prove this 100%"

ok bowman prove it without a doubt