The Tree of Liberty...

[Treasure_Hunter]

Crispin my friend, for me saying we as Americans need to compromise on the Bill of rights is like saying we need to compromise on the 10 Commandments. Which of the 10 commandments do we compromise on, which Amendment in the Bill of Rights do we compromise on after the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] Amendment?

First Amendment:” Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ‘

Do we say free speech is allowed as long as it isn't against a govenment act as a good compromise?

What about freedom to assemble, how about we set a limit of no more than 100 people at one time in any meeting as a compromise...

Freedom of religion, how about we set the Catholic church as our Church and no more than 2 others allowed as a good compromise.

Redress of Grievances, lets just forget that one completely as a compromise.

Second Amendment: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

They are already getting rid of this one, it has to go first before they can seek a "compromise" on the others.

Third Amendment: “No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.”

How about as a compromise on quartering soldiers in our homes in time of peace we say no more then 4 soliders at any one time.

Fourth Amendment: “The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.’

How about as a compromise, police do not need a judge to sign it, say just a police captain as a compromise, and no need to say what they are looking for, lets just say anything found with in main house as compromise.

Fifth Amendment:” No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. “

How about as a compromise we say you can be tried twice for the same crime, just incase someone guility is found innocent as a compromise…… Sorry if your innocent, oh well..

Sixth Amendment: “In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence”.

How about as a compromise the prosecution gets to pick the jury, and and we get to pick our attorney as a compromise…

Seventh Amendment: :In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.”

How about as a good compromise no jury trial for suits less than $100,000….

Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

How about as a compromise we just make all bail a mininum of $500,00 as a good compromise…

Ninth Amendment: “The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.”

How about as a compromise we just let the government decide what rights are ours.

Tenth Amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”

How about as a compromise we say let the government tell us which ones are theirs and we get what is left over…

I wonder why our forefathers didn’t just choose to compromise on all of these rights rather than go to war, sure would have been safer for them, they would not have had to shed their blood or lay their lives down on the battlefields just so their ancestors could compromise them away…After all we all know once you give something away to the government they don’t come back asking for more.

Sorry my friend, just like the 10 Commandments, when it comes to the Bill of Rights and our Constitution there is no room for compromise……

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

COMPROMISES? How about those AMENDMENTS?
Goes BEYOND the 10th...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

25 Amendments ratified; 6 or so non-ratified to US CONSTITUTION. Sounds like compromises to me...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

25 Admendments ratified; 6 or so non-ratified to US CONSTITUTION. Sounds like compromises to me...

Show me one of them that compromises away the rights given in any of the first 10 amendments...

Why is it so hard for some people to understand that the 2ND Amendment is what guarantees all the others amendments stand, with out the 2ND not a sincle one of the other amendments is guaranteed...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

25 Admendments ratified; 6 or so non-ratified to US CONSTITUTION. Sounds like compromises to me...

ALL of which, CAN be REVOKED... in times of WAR; WAR POWERS ACT of 1941, 1973...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

YEP! Blood sacrifices to the Tree of Liberty; NO compromise... "Red" is for the VIOLENT overthrow of the US Government; (among OTHERS?)... on TREASURE NET?

Rebel, Red had not called for the violent overthrow of the US government anywhere that I have read, if he had posted it I would have deleted it.... I am not for the violent overthrow of the government either, but I am for our constitutional rights 100%. I am for Democracy not Socialism......

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

ALL of which, CAN be REVOKED... in times of WAR; WAR POWERS ACT of 1941, 1973...

Has congress declared war and I missed it?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Has congress delcared war and I missed it?

NOT yet; I DO see another amendment coming; restricting certain types of weapons.
2nd Amendment... Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel, Red had not called for the violent overthrow of the US government anywhere that I have read, if he had posted it I would have deleted it.... I am not for the violent overthrow of the government either, but I am for our constitutional rights 100%. I am for Democracy not Soclailism......

SOCIALISM? Isn't THAT... POLITICS?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

NOT yet; I DO see another admendment coming; restricting certain types of weapons.
2nd Admendment... Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It indeed may come, but it want be with out a hard fought congressional fight to start with........I personally have recently written at least 8 letters to my congressional reps reguarding my views on the attacks against our constitutional rights comming up to make sure my views are known to them...

I will say this, there are tens of millions of Americans that are becoming increasingly angry with the government over this and other recent issues. I am 64, I have not seen this much anger with the direction and policy of our government in my lifetime and that includes the Viet Nam war... If things continue the way they are it does not bode well for the future......

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Agree with you on that...

 

[truckinbutch]

Again , where is there need for compromise or additional laws ? Every one of these headline making miscreants have violated numerous laws and our collective rights .
> Strict adherence to existing criminal penalties and mental health guidelines are the place to start rather than promulgate further regulation that will be arbitrarily enforced .

 

[Chadeaux]

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

Enough said about the subject of compromise!

 

[truckinbutch]

Onfire: I am not sure what you mean by "males fun gun." I certainly did not mean to offend.
TruckinButch: It must be a lonely existence having so few friends.
Red: Okay, I got it. No chance of ever compromising. No bending. No breaking. No nothing. You leave absolutely zero room for discussion. Why participate in these discussions if you are not open minded to others views?
InfoWarrior: I can see how things do not seem much like a compromise; however, if additonal gun laws are passed then compromise would need to be attained to loosen them in the future.

All: When I started this thread I honestly thought we might be able to come up with some ideas for limits on gun possession. You all know more about guns then I do. Why not at least brainstorm a few ideas? There are plenty of other threads on Tnet where you can state your opinions on government and gun control. Why not use this one constructively?

Crispin , I have been alone for much of my life but never lonely . I do not need my teddy bear and a support group to help me through life .
>I started peeing on the ground between my feet and making foam at about the age of 2 . Life has been a forward motion ever since .
>A friend is someone who always has your back as you have his/her's . You are willing to sacrifice your very life for that friend and he/she is just as willing to do the same for you . LOOK INTO YOUR INNER SELF ! Are you willing to make those commitments and have friends that you could count on to do the same ?....................................................
> .............. I thought not . What you call friends are merely aquaintances . This is not a direct attack on you . It is a clarification of what friends are and what constitutes lonely .

 

[smokeythecat]

Seems we are up the creek.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Remember, any new law still has to go through congress, do as I have done, write your congressional reps, voice your opinions, make your voices heard, don't just rely on someone else or an organization to fight for our rights. This is but the first battle of a long war..... If enough patriots express their objections and make their voices heard it will make it that much harder to push through.....

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Remember, any new law still has to go through congress, do as I have done, write your congressional reps, voice your opinions, make your voices heard, don't just rely on someone else or an organization to fight for our rights. This is but the first battle of a long war..... If enough patriots express their objections and make their voices heard it will make it that much harder to push through.....

Don't the states have to "agree", etc? IF... they disagree; what then?

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Don't the states have to "agree", etc? IF... they disagree; what then?

37 states have to ratified it for the change to be effective, if after 7 years 37 states have not then the amendment dies....

An amendment must be ratified by three-fourths of the legislatures of the states in support of it for it to pass. Congress could also direct the states to establish special ratifying conventions to consider proposed amendments. If three-fourths of these conventions approve the amendment, it is ratified and becomes part of the Constitution.
Every amendment to the Constitution except the 21st has been ratified by voting in state legislatures. In the case of the 21st Amendment, which repealed the 18th, Congress instructed the states to call for ratification by convention rather than by state legislatures. The choice of method may have been decisive. The "wets" in Congress, (those in favor of repealing the 18th Amendment), believed that the repeal amendment would fare better in state conventions than in the conservative-dominated state legislatures.

There has never been a sufficient number of states calling for a constitutional convention to compel the Congress to convene one, an effort in the 1980s and early 1990s to call a convention for the express purpose of considering a balanced budget amendment nearly succeeded. However, calling for a constitutional convention opens up all aspects of the Constitution for amendment if such a convention were convened and that caused the effort to fall short. In other words any part of the constitution could be changed once it is called for by the states not just the proposed new amendment.

 

[Dano Sverige]

I don't think "compromise" is the correct term, more like, an opportunity to find a mutual alternate solution. Our Government does not have to afford us a compromise, we are allowed the right to bare arms and that's it. There is nothing in either the Bill of Rights or the Constitution that secures our right to own whatever type firearms we want, or in any quantity we want. These have simply been privileges afforded to us. So I think some people are confused as to just exactly what the Constitution and Bill of Rights actually provides.

For the sake of debate, if we were only allowed the possession of fully registered single shot 22 rifles we would, in fact, still be afforded the opportunity to bare arms. "Everything else" has been a privilege up to this point. Sure, it's an unacceptable extreme example, but it should make clear the possibilities and the reality of the situation. As long as laws are written in such a way to still afford us the right to bare arms, no matter how inconvenient, ours rights have not been legally violated by definition.

So why work together towards mutual solution? Because your elected Government and fellow Americans do not have to compromise, they do not have to negotiate their desire and right for better gun control measures. All they have to tolerate is the basic right to bare arms, nothing more. No portion of a truly free society will ever be allowed to hold rule over their fellow man or it's government. "Compromise?" If that opportunity is a reality then it had better be jumped upon.

I think too many people are confusing rights with privileges.

THIS is the ONLY post on Tnet that ALL Americans need to commit to memory!
Been trying to say this for a long time, some people are just better with words. Thanks Bigscoop.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Our Bill of Rights are clear to me, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall NOT be infringed.

Look up the word infringed in the dictionary.