The True Story of Victorio Peak

[gollum]

Say what you want, but anybody that came along after the Nosses I would not consider to have any legal claim on the wealth. With the possible exception of the Apache Nation, who put a lot of the wealth there in the first place. Even though they murdered the people the wealth came from, I think they have a claim to it the same way the Spanish have a claim to the gold and silver they ravaged from the New World.

In my eyes, the progression goes like this:

Padre LaRue hid the original bullion >

Apache murdered passersby, took their wealth and added it to the peak >

Doc and Ova found the caves based on info from Willie Daughitt >

Doc and Ova brought in people to help them excavate the peak >

Doc and Ova Divorced - Doc and the people he brought in
- Ova and the people she brought in

EVERYBODY else came to the peak based on Doc and Ova's original find. What we like to call straphangers. After Doc and Ova (and their bring-ins IMO), there are no legal claimants other than Apache.

So Donethat, if you worked for the Apache Nation in their recovery, were you paid on a percentage or were you paid by the job? If you were promised a percentage based on recovery, then I say you are a legal claimant. If you were paid hourly or by the job as a driller, excavator, whatever, then you were paid for your work, and you have nothing more to say about it.

Simple Right? HAHAHAHAHA

Best - Mike

 

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[donethat]

Well Mike, since you are having such a hard time understanding plain English, I'll try again. I was part of a group that was recognized by the federal government as a legal claimant. We were/are acting as agents for the Apache Nation in protecting their rights on a percentage basis. I was one of the two designated "tunnel rats" doing Operation Goldfinder, the other was a guy named Jerry Lee from the Scott group that was the GC for the job. My connection to Victorio Peak has been memorialized in books, film and documents. My question is, who are you and under what authority do you figure that you can critique who I am and my connection to the treasure?

 

[gollum]

Well Mike, since you are having such a hard time understanding plain English, I'll try again. I was part of a group that was recognized by the federal government as a legal claimant. We were/are acting as agents for the Apache Nation in protecting their rights on a percentage basis. I was one of the two designated "tunnel rats" doing Operation Goldfinder, the other was a guy named Jerry Lee from the Scott group that was the GC for the job. My connection to Victorio Peak has been memorialized in books, film and documents. My question is, who are you and under what authority do you figure that you can critique who I am and my connection to the treasure?

First, I understand English quite well. Looks like you are the one having some difficulty. I was giving my opinion as to who I personally believe are legitimate claimants. Notice the phrase "IN MY EYES"? While I might BE an authority, I don't HAVE any authority. What my beliefs are and what a Judge ruled might be two different things. Just like after Charlie Ryan murdered Noss, then was tried in a court that was stocked with a bunch of people that had a vested interest in keeping Ryan out of jail. What a judge might rule and what "should be" aren't always the same thing. Both Fiege and Berlette thought they were legal claimants because they found Doc's holding cave. They only found that cave because they had heard what was going on with the Nosses and snuck in there while the Nosses were being kept out.

I know some of the other people involved. One has been involved since about 1954 when he was stationed at WSMR. I know a lot of back stories about the Peak and other things.

Who am I to critique? I am a grown man that is free to say anything I choose. A lot of people have come around over the years claiming to have all kinds of secret knowledge, or were involved, or whatever. They (like you so far) never give their real names, and hide behind an avatar. I am also wondering why anybody is still beating this subject up? There's nothing left in that place. ALL GONE! Went to LBJs Ranch in Texas. I have always seen the need for a good book about the subject. Tom Whittle wrote the best story about it before the Gold House Books came out.

Some of the VP old timers watch the forums, but don't actively participate. If they know you, they may speak up or PM you. My buddy in Texas posts once in a great while, the guy that posts as Victorio1 was there for Goldfinder. He is the one that did all the video interviews with Willie Daughitt, Tony Jolley, etc.

Mike

 

[Crow]

Just comment from Somebody with no vested interest in the subject.

I read articles watched TV specails on the subject of VP for years with interest as it is truly is an interesting story. After reading all the claims and counter claims and pointless arguments about who said what. It seems to me also a lot about nothing. Yet after all these years I myself and my opinion alone have not been sold on the story especially on the later claims bordering on hysteria. The only one who knows the truth is long dead who left a legacy for the hangers on wanting to claim thier 15 minutes of fame. They cannot flog the treasure anymore so they turned it into a conspiracy theory, to flog books and the longer they drag out this saga the more money they make.

Like with many treasure legends that become culturally famous We have the usual vultures after the whiff of carcass of a story after it is long gone if it was ever there to start with, wanting a piece of the action. The truth behind this story died the day the bullet entered Docs Brain.

Crow

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Well Mike, since you are having such a hard time understanding plain English, I'll try again.

In plain english donethat, please stop the insults...






3%

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM

MALO PERICULOSAM, LIBERTATEM QUAM QUIETAM SERVITUTEM


We will NOT go quietly into the night!

 

[donethat]

Hope my pic showed up. Yes I was there and yes I got a stinkin' t-shirt.

 

[treasminder2]

Hope my pic showed up. Yes I was there and yes I got a stinkin' t-shirt.

Padre La Rue did not stash anything in Victorio Peak

he was first and always in the Organ Mountains , and knew nothing of Victorio Peak .


La Rue spent 16 years in the Organs .

and it is impossible to smelt that many bars with a small amount of people in a Depleted
deposit .

He did not have a Mission and Village to work his claims

he had very few people work with him .

I know somer of the Noss Family people , and yes they kept saying it was La Rues Gold

IT WAS NOT

La Rues Vaults are all in the Organ Mountains, all seven of them .

The small caverns in several mountain ranges amout to seven as well

and opinions mean nothing Mike

The fact is , that Doc Noss had no legit claim .

He was a Thief and a con

The actual claimants had Documents dating way before Doc's ancestors ever fell from
the trees they lived in .


That Gold , the initial deposits , were made close to 10 to 15 thousand years before Doc
first belched his beer breath on Ova .


Judicial amounts to nothing as well , it is corrupt all the way through the system
in this country

so the only REAL claim that can truely be reconized ,,,

is the one that who took the gold can make

because after all , do not the spoils go to the Mighty ?

Think not ?

then know that is how it actually is .

whose has all the Oil rights in the U.S. ?

heh heh

you pay
but never OWN

you are for rent and everything you own is actually just something you rent for a while .

and that gold went to the people who could remove it and sneak out with it and get it sold .

 

[treasminder2]

uuuummmmmmmmm ................ Don't you mean ONFP? Ova Noss Family Partnership?

What they mean by "BOGUS CLAIMANTS" are the people that came along after like Fiege and Berlette, White Sands Base Commander, etc etc etc. Sure, I guess the Apache could throw in a claim for it, as they were the ones that murdered travelers and put their valuables in the peak. If you were part of a legal group gaining access to the peak, then you as well, buuuuuuuuuuuuuut when you say that you were there several times "under cover of darkness", doesn't sound like you were part of any legitimate recovery effort.

The writer never claimed to be part of the ONFP. He just said that they gave him more access to their family records and secret knowledge than they have ever released to ANYONE (which by the way is true).

But honestly, I don't know why there is still such whooping and hollering about VP? Anything that WAS there, is loooooooooooong gone. Capt. Orby Swanner personally witnessed and made a notarized affidavit claiming that the US Government pulled about 93,000,000 (that's ninety-three million) troy ounces of gold from the peak. People are still arguing over empty tunnels.

I would try and find whatever was left of the 110 gold bars that Noss and Tony Jolley hid the night before Noss was murdered. Jolley only got ten bars. That leaves one hundred!

Best - Mike

here I quote Gollum : " What they mean by "BOGUS CLAIMANTS" are the people that came along after like Fiege and Berlette, White Sands Base Commander, etc etc etc. "

You as well made a statement that Fiegie's cave was a side cave that Doc stored bars in


naughty naughty

Big BS that statement is Gollum


Doc Noss never knew that Cave was there .

Fiegie had a legit undiscovered cave , that Noss would have loved to have found ,

however , Noss walked right passed it without ever noticing it .


here is another clue

Your friend in Texas ( Dr. Oren Swearingen )

is not the be all / end all of VP

He used to come and bother my Dad for info , and than bother my Dad's Treasure Hunting Buddies for info ,,,

He knew absolutely NOTHING without Them .

and they , all of them , would throw him curves .


My Dad and his friends would do research and then do the foot work

Swearingen would come later , years later actually , and try to glean from them
the information after they did the hard work to gather that information

and he as well had the attitude that they should GIVE IT to him , as though he had a right to it .

he was one Pompus individual with some wild expectations .


I have stated this clearly before : " The ONFP , had no rights to anything at all .

NONE of them , nor any of the people connected to them , knew where treasure was located . none of them had ever found any of it on their own .

and as for RIGHTS ,

those who stored the Treasures away , have descendants .

Drunks like Doc Noss was not descendant of the people who cached these treasures ( and that is his truth , not an Insult mister Moderator )


He was mostly a Drunken Thug .


Willie Douthit murdered a young guy who had found a transit and map under a wooden
window seal at an old adobe house where he spent the night while hitch hiking .

The guy had pulled the seal loose to use as firewood on a cold night .

under the seal was a hollowed out cache in the adobe wall , in that hole was rolled up ,
a cloth , inside the roll was the map and transit with letters that described by
celestrial reconing how to find several sealed caches of Treasure .


Willie DID NOT lead Doc to Treasure at VP .


Title of the thread is : " The TRUTH of Victorio Peak "


You can start a thread with a Title " The ONFP's LIES about Victorio Peak "


then i can tolerate what you post a little better .

and btw : once again , my REAL name I'll post here : Roger Allen Snow


I have no fear of truth , or telling it .

Those Classified Documents that ONFP say they have ,, heh heh

Evidently , folks need to be made aware the " MOCK UP DOCUMENTS " are often released
to sway little minds with .

The Documents on Vicky Peak would fill a Dumpster .

they are gleaned from several Gov.'t agencies .


Seems every agency was after the loot .

 

[kanabite]

and they still are I would guess .
wow Rog i just read through the last year or so posts on here . seems like a little part in there looked somewhat covert .
they come and they go , different tactics , one might even think that brand new building up to camp williams has a few "posters" lurking about . on the bright side I see Steve wrote a book , i might have to inquire as to the price of an autographed copy {hint hint}....
my apologies to Beepers if he is a she .
take care .///bob

 

[kanabite]

Rog please tell beepers i'm sorry i called her a him, i need to pay better attention to detail .
still wondering just who would post on da net in the late 80's though , seems like the late 80's was fortran and cobal , just a hair out of basic?
late 80's must be military ? must be where all the rage comes from
i got your back amigo.///bob

 

[kanabite]

I didn't read any of the subsequent posts after I last posted, but that was because I was posting for reasons other than engaging anyone here in a conversation. No offense anyone.

oh good that did not take very long. for the record here , i want to tell you i have watched roger snow be ridiculed , ignored , THREATENED , slandered , censored ,ganged up on and a few other fancy words that this forum will not allow me to type in years past . although Rog is a big boy and has no need of anyone fighting his battles , many of the events have a very common theme . seems most of the folks are always after the same thing . wanna take a guess at what that might be ? you seem to be painting a picture with a very broad brush that just looks to me like the same old song and dance . grab a pitchfork , kick down a door , have a party , blame the masons , the world sucks , find a treasure , start a war , blame the greedy treasure hunters that wont share the info ,start a cult , blah blah blah... you know i asked Rog once about the alien thing , of course i did not demand , throw a FIT , or act like a freaking know it all , i just asked him cause i was curious . the answer i got was satisfactory . this attack and then ask for help thing you got going on is probably not gonna score any points . one might wanna be careful when chasing monsters under the bed , cause some times they end up looking back at you right above the bathroom sink. sorry no fancy words from me , im just a poor dumb country kid . but ill tell you what , any time i ever asked the rog for help , he was pretty forth coming . you can tell allot about someone by the way they type , it takes a little bit of heart and some thought . i guess you must have missed the moral of the story . too bad , its got a real cool ending

 

[kanabite]

The object of the masonic legends is not to establish historical facts, but to convey philosophical doctrines. They are a method by which esoteric instruction is communicated, and the student accepts them with reference to nothing else except their positive use and meaning as developing masonic dogmas.

The Symbolism of Freemasonry, by Albert G. Mackey, M.D.

 

[rodoconnor]

Just to stir the theorhetical pot a bit. How can the decendants of murders and thieves have a legitimate claim to the property their ancestors stole? The decendants of their victims have the legitimate claim.

 

[Springfield]

Geez, Nobody, if Roger Snow has failed to give you whatever it is you want, just let it go and move on.

Re Gen X's Information Age, remember: "Garbage in, Garbage out."

 

[mdog]

Nobody... this is the name you post under and you expect people to share everything they've found after years of study and exploration? If you have the same trust in the internet that you expect everybody else to have, why don't you post your name and address.

I started a thread on tnet a few years back and I shared everything I knew about the site including pictures and explanations about the multiple signs and monuments I found there. Soon after that, the vandalism began and some of the more obvious markers have been destroyed. I consider these national treasures but somebody probably thought that, by destroying the markers, nobody else would find the treasure. Things got to the point where I asked the moderator to delete the whole thread and he did.

I don't thing you should come to a forum like this expecting to find all the answers. You might find bits of information, that are valuable to you in your own search, but you won't find everything.

I've read most, if not all, of your posts and I don't know what you're looking for. If you think you will kick in some doors and people will start posting everything they know, you're only going to find a lot of frustration.

What are you looking for...what are your interests? If it's information you want...well...information is kinda like a rear end... everybody has some kind of information... but sometimes it stinks.

 

[kanabite]

i guess i'll recant the "start a cult" thing , it was not so much directed at you .
as far as me repeating someone else's "secrets " your going to have to ask them.
i figured i would get the ban for the whole post anyway. sorry you did not understand the hillbilly version of Nietzsche.
not so much fun when someone attacks you is it? if i would have gotten the ban for defending roger snow so be it .
just in case you are wondering no I am not a greedy treasure hunter , but as far as starting a war , there are some things rumored to be buried out there that sure might . your not the first treasure hunter to be after just a picture BTW .

 

[gollum]

I am going to jump in here since some of Roger's rantings were aimed in my direction.

You talk a lot of trash about an 80 something year old man. Since I was referred to Oren Swearingen by Doctor Lambert Dolphin several years ago, Oren has never been anything but kind and has ALWAYS answered any questions I have posed to him. He has never acted buffoonish (unlike others) or egomaniacal (again unlike others). I treat others according to how they treat me. If you acted towards other people the way Oren Swearingen has acted towards me .............. lets just say you wouldn't be thought of the way you presently are by most.

I didn't know Doc Noss, so I can't speak towards him personally. Somehow I highly doubt you have ever met him, but you can talk a lot of trash. So be it. That is your right, but just know that it only makes you look foolish.

See, Roger and I used to get along pretty well. I know that his dad was thought highly of, and for reasons that I won't go into here, I know that his family has suffered because of VP and Hardscrabble Peak. When his dad was told to lay off and stop talking about that subject, he was told via a phone call where every member of his family was and what they were doing at that moment. When he still didn't lay off, Roger's Sister was shot in the head while riding her bike. Murdered. What happened to Roger, I can't say. I don't know how much of his personal story to believe, because I know that traumatic events can make people think and do some strange things. I don't go out of my way to pick on Roger, but when anybody talks trash that I know to be untrue about someone I personally know, I will respond.

Best - Mike

 

[kanabite]

hi mike ,
ya know i ain't trying to defend every word ive ever seen come from roger , and maybe i should have just let the stuff in here go with nobody .but ya know even just that litte bit of his story you have brought up , speaks volumes .
bad things happen to the finders , we all need our heads examined for being on the treasure forums anyways IMO .
we push and push and the more we find out sometimes seems like the less we know .
do i have a solution ? nope , i wish i did .

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

OK OK, you ( collectively) 'owe' me a few cups of coffee - with cream please, no sugar - for reading almost all of the way through the long, controversial posts.

Side issue, all of us, that haven't recently been educated in our higher institutions, have known exactly where our country has been heading. Even back in the early 50's as an officer, I was in a militery class where we were shown a 10 step plan to change the US to it's present goal UGH !.

AND YES, I am a greedy treasure hunter - no worse than a farmer stripping the soil of it's minerals, or mining, or the latest scientific gadget etc etc. that also strips away non renewable earthly resources, soo, my conscious is quite relaxed, no problems, except where do I find the next one.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[kanabite]

OK OK, you ( collectively) 'owe' me a few cups of coffee - with cream please, no sugar - for reading all of the way through the long, controversial posts. Side issue, all of us, that haven't recently been educated in our higher institutions, have known exactly where our country has been heading. Even back in the early 50's as an officer, I was in a militery class where we were shown a 10 step plan to change the US to it's present goal UGH !. AND YES, I am a greedy treasure hunter - no worse than a farmer stripping the soil of it's minerals, or mining, or the latest scientific gadget etc etc. that also strips away non renewable earthly resources, soo, my conscious is quite relaxed, no problems, except where do I find the next one. Don Jose de La Mancha