The True Story of Victorio Peak

[treasminder2]

Hmmm .... and to answer nobody.

My question was not your opinion of the American public. I do not speak for them, nor do I posit questions on their behalf. I asked you why you think YOU are entitled to deposits such as Victorio Peak. By what legal and moral authority.

I'm just a random knucklehead trying to make sense of it all, Rog. Looking for the Truth. If you don't care to answer that question, well, just come out and say so.

Most of us were part of the sheeple at some point Rog. You've thrown a lot out there on da net, including you, as a child, were the author of the LUE map.

I am not as resigned as you. The battle you may think you have fought for years has actually yet to begin. We are in but the very beginning stages of the skirmish, soldier ...

You cannot expect centuries of misinformation and indoctrination to come to an end overnight.

I am qouting Gollum here

quote : "

This question was mostly answered on the other thread. Alex referred to it in a post he had made. He stated that Doc Noss had maps and papers that pointed to six other locations in the general area. There was a name on the map that points away from Villa.

I don't know for certain the answer you seek will be in a book or not, but I suspect so, because it provides a reason for certain conclusions that have been reached regarding VP.

Best-Mike



Alright

Given that other people are holding out on info concerning the legacy and linage


In fair exachange , I'll hold back a few cards of my own

ONFP can give up the name on the maps Noss found

and I answer you question no body .


as Springfield pointed out in other threads

there are Seven sites , all of which are interconnected

not six sites

seven

There is more than one name attached to these sites

Though Noss may have found a chronologers document

with that entities name only on it


There is in fact nine surnames involved to my exact knowledge .

Staley or Clarence or who ever his name is

may have seen the photos that Cheatum had of nine wooden carved statues of men
in Midevel cloths

these were supposedly smuggled out of VP by soldiers in 1961 or the second dig in 1971 and '72


Who do you suppose these nine Figurines represent ?


Knights Templar

the original nine ( they were not Monks, they resided at times in a Manstery )

not the following Monastic Knighted Knights Templars

The 9 Men who had family linage connected back to an early Kingdom .


You would like to know my connection and if i had rights as linage

That answer is a game changer , re-write books with it .

cool enough ?


I'll reveal linage answers when i see fair exchange

i can give you the name

However , that is a bit one sided


let them kick the answer ( ONFP Group and all buddies thereof )

Fair enough ?

​

 

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[treasminder2]

sorry about the typos above

the text reader or http of this webpage is hoaky and I am asleep at the keyboard tonight

long day of hassels with the cops

seems a prank call to the police again

so a bit pissy right now


and yes , I stood the Cops down and out of my life

they had to wait for a Sgt. and I stood him down

Still sharp as a tack at it

kinda proud of that ,,,,,, heh heh

 

[treasminder2]

#1. The initial deposits were a much older Civilization then Hiram's and Solomons, their men simply retrieved already
processed bars , not Ore, nor did they mine it as such.


2. The Linage is from King Hirams ancestors who were of that ancient lost Civ.

3. The first nine knights were lineal as well , and they went to Tyre ( Hirams ancient Royal city ) to retrieve
inheited wealth and maps , scrolls , they did not retrieve the route to Ophir from The Temple mount in Jerusalem

they retrieved the logged route in Tyre which was ancient Phoenicia , and is today Lebanon .

4. legacy and parameters concerning such are in this venue NOT the Judgement call of anyone outside the Linage .

5. Theft is Theft , if a record of the wealth is with the cache , the owners are obvious ,

Noss was not lineal , he was a thief.

6. Directive and purpose of such wealth is determined by the owners . No one else .

7. Sophistry on the matter makes the truth no less true .


Last
Kino's Artifacts were recovered no only inside VP, but as well all along a trail leading from Mission San Xavier Tubac
to the base of VP .

Kino KNEW before hand where each of these seven sites were

he visited each to record whether the deposits were still in extent insitu , HOWEVER ,,, he never removed any of them
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
WHY NOT ?


He needed money badly for his Mission work .
But refused to recover the treasures ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, WHY ?

Adherence to the proclaimed legacy ownership , precluded his needs ,,, desires,,, his work.

He would obey that decree .

 

[familyhunter]

Big Scott interesting stuff and alot of questions. Rog pleasure to read your posts as always have you looked into that last site I sent you? BigScott the only person I know that may have any true answers for you would be Treasminder so ask him maybe he will have somethin good for you

 

[Springfield]

....
Kino's Artifacts were recovered no only inside VP, but as well all along a trail leading from Mission San Xavier Tubac
to the base of VP .

Kino KNEW before hand where each of these seven sites were

he visited each to record whether the deposits were still in extent insitu , HOWEVER ,,, he never removed any of them
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
WHY NOT ?


He needed money badly for his Mission work .
But refused to recover the treasures ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, WHY ?

Adherence to the proclaimed legacy ownership , precluded his needs ,,, desires,,, his work.

He would obey that decree .

Rog, do you know if Kino left any carvings or other permanent signs at these sites to acknowledge that he inspected them? Also, he must have had a map - any ideas about this?

 

[Springfield]

... Can you show me an example in history of a King that did not subjugate, control and steal from other humans, his 'subjects', through force and violence? ...

.... A king is a king is a king. They own nothing. Including King Abiff. They kill and rob to get what they have. They are despicable examples of human beings, entitled to the gallows and nothing more....

...Any person who claims power over another by right of birth, better not cross my path uttering those words....

They say King Arthur was OK, but then I wasn't there and don't know for sure.

It's always been the elite owning the assets and the masses in the fields paying the way. Here in the US of A, we have a different brand of lipstick on the pig, but at the core - don't kid yourself - it's the same game.

And speaking of rights of birth, what about our measly rights of inheritance here in the US of A? What's the difference between a child inheriting a parent's estate or a prince inheriting a kingdom, except in scale? Same principal.

 

[Springfield]

I'm curious as to where the gold came from ... One thing that has always puzzled me about this is why is everything so focused on NM and AZ? ...

We can't answer that question without more information. We can only speculate. Most of the modern legends deal with subsurface venues, but at this point in time, they're only legends.

They say a lot of things about him (Arthur). 12 Knights and a round table. That there is zodiacal symbolism. When legends start throwing around symbolism, it raises my eyebrow to its factual occurrence. Another fabricated story?

Arthur may have existed as reported, he may be an archetype for other ancient leaders, he may be part of a fairy tale. As far as the symbolism goes, maybe the ancient kings ruled under universal laws - "As above, so below." We don't even know what happened on 9/11 - how can we be sure about ancient history?

... I am, at my core, a pure Libertarian. However it is an impractical political system without a fundamental change in human nature; ...

Maybe it's the neanderthal part of us that hasn't yet assimilated the best parts of the gene spicing that created us, but humans as a group need supervision in order to live in a civilized world beyond the tribal level. You've said it yourself - this can't change without a sea change in human nature. So far, we seem to remain easily trainable monkeys.

As a Libertarian myself, I resent authority and any restraints on my personal freedoms. However, the idea of seven billion current human anarchists on earth is chilling. Most people need, indeed seem to want, to be told what to do, what to think and how to lead their lives. Ironically, this is probably a workable method for advancement - enlightened leadership. Unfortunately, our current-era leadership is far from enlightened and those in charge seem to feed on our weaknesses, not try to improve them.

 

[treasminder2]

Big Scott interesting stuff and alot of questions. Rog pleasure to read your posts as always have you looked into that last site I sent you? BigScott the only person I know that may have any true answers for you would be Treasminder so ask him maybe he will have somethin good for you

ok
theres a lot of questions you guys

no family hunter, i don't even know if i received it


to the Kino trail and if he left markers

He was jesuit, he was in charge of checking mines, co-vertly

read a bio on him

ok

Think Atlantis

You are there , you are aware of a natual disaster

you have to move your cultural

you take it to higher ground that will not be effected

say you pick several sites ( Countries as they are now referred to as )


where you store all that is precious to your civilization .


You store them as best as you can , along a paralle ,,, say 32 to 33

just for simplicity .



Hiram was blood linage , mixed , Atlantean and native of what became known as Phoenician


What were the leaders of the Atlanteans like ?


was there a king as you are familiar with , meaning a King with the consciousness
as you describe nobody ?

answer : NO !

The consciousness was not as Western Civilized lineal Consciousness based in Self
entitelment .

 

[Springfield]

... Speculate away, I'm all ears ...

" ... The lode was exceedingly rich. The deposit was located underground in an extensive cavern system accessed by a natural entrance on the surface. The metal originated as pure native gold and silver wire of several inches, to perhaps feet in diameter. Much of the gold was nearly 24-carat. Even though more silver was present, the gold was almost exclusively recovered because of its greater value. The gold was removed in solid slabs when possible, or gouged, picked and hacked out of the cavern walls and surrounding rock as required. A large amount of pure gold was gathered very quickly...

... The group was ruthless in their efforts to mine the gold. They began capturing and enslaving as many Indians as possible to work the deposit and supply the camp. Indians were forced to work and live underground in the caverns. Some of them died in the mine, never seeing daylight again. The Indian women and children were taken as wives and families by the group and inhabited the settlement of _____ _____ to support the mining operation...

... The(y) amassed a large amount of bullion during their first season of operation. The gold was cut into sixty-pound pieces. Smaller pieces were melted and cast into crude bars. The incredible richness of the lode compelled the miners to work it unceasingly. Soon it became apparent that a secure place was needed to store the accumulated bullion until it could be removed back to civilization. It was decided to locate a cache site that could be readily accessed at any time thereafter...

... It is known that ___ _________ worked the mine for several years, accumulating thousands of pounds of near 24-carat gold bars hidden in twenty to forty separate locations in the ___ ____ region ..."

 

[Springfield]

Reminiscent of this one: ... She called it the Three Steps Mine ...

They all just run together in the end ...

Isn't that the one on Marble Mountain, just east of Crestone? I was just there last summer - should have run up there for a look-see. Guess I spent too much time at the UFO watch tower in Hooper instead.

 

[Springfield]

... Well, the (La Caverna Del Oro) Maltese Cross I find interesting and it seems many similar, perhaps singular legend tied to multiple locations separated by relatively vast locations - but all seemingly gold bearing in some form when compared to the whole of the North American Continent (e.g. we don't hear about Cibola being in Maine)...

Any sketches or photos of this 'Maltese Cross'? Did it look like this?

Another one in the same vein concerning the Spanish Peaks and Fray de la Cruz:

Indian legend tells of advanced tribes of Mexico mining gold in the Spanish Peaks to decorate their idols. Long before the white man came, even before the alliance of the three great Indian nations of Alcolhua, Aztec, and Tepance, gold was a precious article used to offer to the dieties ... Much gold from the Spanish Peaks region was taken to the Mexican communities of Tlacopan and Tezcuco, where Nezhuatcoyotl reigned [He reigned 1429-1472] in splendor. ...

Another legend, as you say, similar in respects to similar ones throughout the Southwest and lower Rockies/Sangre de Christos.

... Well, I have seen Rog talk Templars, Victorio and the LUE. I am entertaining a link between the three, to see where that thought process leads me. And since I am doing that, and there does seem to be so many of your 'lipsticked pigs' about an arguably singular or very few actual legitimate 'treasure legends', why not toss in Montezuma? Nezahualcoyotl and his predecessors have been tapping some of these ancient reserves, Noss on a larger scale. Rog's ancestors come over and find out, and then unleash the hounds - feed info to Columbus/Vatican/Isabella/etc. Shortly thereafter, Senor Conquistador shows up demanding the gold, is associated with Quetzalcoatl, - gods must be pissed, better run all of that gold back up north and put it back. Average Senor Conquistador is not one 'in the know' - hence their many fruitless quests to find the reserves (which Montezuma returned the loot too - the original location(s) )...

I think all this stuff is linked, but also obfuscated. Try this: Lucifer = Quetzalcoat = Templars (bearded white guys). And this: Outlined cross (above) = Venus = Maltese Cross.

You can probably also throw in the 'original Montezuma', the still-revered ruler of today's Southwestern Pueblo cultures' far distant ancestors. New Mexico and Arizona’s Montezuma is said to have been descended from white men who came from the east well before the Spanish conquest. Legends say the Puebloans’ Montezuma moved on to rule great civilizations further south.

Seven caves of Chicomoztoc:

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Navajo
ancestor-anzi
My enemy-apachu (apache)
ancient ancestor-anasazi

 

[Springfield]

... Well, the Maltese Cross I find interesting and it seems many similar, perhaps singular legend tied to multiple locations separated by relatively vast locations ...

... Another one in the same vein concerning the Spanish Peaks and Fray de la Cruz ...

... And an overall legend surrounding the Spanish Peaks by the same author: Indian legend tells of ...

... The copyright date of these particular excerpts is 1961. To what degree of fiction? I do become intrigued when the "Indian legends" pop-up...

... Same stories about AZ, UT, etc. ...

Yes, the strikingly similar and widespread legends. Here's the thing about them - when, where and by whom did they originate?

Many suddenly appeared in newspaper articles in the late 19th/early 20th century. A great number of them seemed to appear in the 1930's. More showed up in the 1960's when TH magazines exploded in popularity. You either believe what you read or you try to research the details of the legends (times, places, people, historical events, verified documentation, etc.) to see if the legend has any support in the public record. This is a daunting task which very few are willing to take on, so they rationalize, "Hey, if it was in the newspaper (book, magazine, internet) and they provided names and dates, it must be true. Right? Besides, everyone else on the forum accepts them. Yep, true - good as gold. Ha ha."

However, if the legends were cleverly fabricated and released in various places and times ... why? Maybe someone wanted to build a belief system in the public's mind that was bogus.

On another matter - symbols - here's an interesting link: Fleur-de-lis - HIDDEN IN PLAIN SIGHT

 

[Springfield]

Crosses and more crosses ...

Yeah, there's a bunch. To me, any square cross with equal arms, even with the end embellishments, etc., is significant when it appears as a carving.

Another very interesting one is the Cross of Lorraine - allegedly disguised on occasion as a dragonfly.

 

[Springfield]

This last post definitely seems to be out of your Cliff Notes version of all of this, at least from my comprehension of your posts I have read.

And when those times, places, people, historical events, verified documentation, etc. fall out side the purview of microfiche rolls ... ?

Oddly, Springfield, or perhaps not, with the way my mind works, the more I delve into this, the less significant some of that type of research seems.

It all depends upon what one is looking for, I suppose. If it is the 'traditional', popularized treasure legend of lost Spanish mines/ore caches/bullion caches, or of the Anglo variety in the 1800's, then sure. If it is things that occurred pre-Columbus, well ...

Good ... now we're cutting to the chase. IMO, nearly all the legends, by definition, have to be bogus, at least in their most important aspects. In the first place, and most importantly, I do not believe human nature allows any reason for a person or persons (within the past 500 years, say) to release a 'true treasure cache' story to anyone else. Why would they?

Secondly, the legends themselves. As I was hinting at earlier, their details can seldom be verified (do you know if there really was a Fray de la Cruz or Spanish documents attributed to his treasure legends?), so you either accept them on face value (totally naive), immediately reject them out of hand (totally skeptical), or realize that there was a reason they came to light and speculate what that reason might be. The story may have been fabricated to submit to a treasure magazine. The story may have been made up to draw attention to an individual or a location. The story may be a coded message establishing certain facts in the public record that may be of use to people familiar with the code.

How much do you trust the written history of 500 years ago? While the monastic vow of silence is explained as being ecclesiastical in nature, one could argue, I suggest, that it would be an incredibly effective method of rewriting the History of Western Civilization, and ensuring that it was quickly accepted within a very, very short amount of time, generationally speaking. Couple that with things like Plagues, the Inquisition, and, well ...And when that research has to rely upon the works of Josephus Flavius, with no real contemporaries to compare to?

I don't trust it any more than I do contemporary history. All history is written with an agenda. Flavius is an excellent example of that. The masses are generally terribly naive.

This is other stuff though? Well, I don't think a lot of it has been both recorded and stored in places where the average, ardent treasure researcher can ever access it.

That leaves my research, with what my 'discovery' goals are, outside the Halls of Accumulated Parchments of Myth and Mundane Facts, and out walking around looking at stuff. One of the doggies is a wee bit too young to force on a long slog up to Marble Mountain to take a look-see for myself just yet, but if there is that sign and it is legit, there will be others in other logical locations. Perhaps once there but no longer visible, perhaps never there, etc. Who knows ... ?

Who indeed? Without proprietary knowledge, it most likely won't be us. That doesn't mean it isn't rewarding finding strange things in the hills.

If Rog's version of Victorio (as I understand it) is legit, it is reasonable to assume the Rio Grande as an access point - at least one. True to my roots, I'm taking a look around the headwater area, loading up a bunch 'o stuff, grabbing a hold of a set of oars and shoving off, looking for random places to call home for the evening on the shore, and then work my way downstream over the course of a few months, see what I can see ...

I like Rog's version because it passes my smell test, in that it makes sense on many levels. Much of the 'treasure' dogma available in the public domain - whether 500 years old or yesterday's TN postings - doesn't make sense to me when I apply the ultimate yardstick: human nature.

 

[Stone Decipher]

My 2 cents,,,,I heard when he found a catacomb of small crawl spaces inside he slithered into one and inside was a room with gold bars stacked like cords of wood, he over loaded his back pack and made it out to a dry wash. there he packed in the embankment the excess baggage and kept 2 bars where he made it back to a gas station where he was shot.,,,,mean while back at the general vicinity of the peak two hikers were awoke in the middle of the night to see military du cena halves rumble to the peak where they loaded the trucks up. a low es-halon soldier was angry with the mission and after clean up was the last to leave the tomb, before he left he wrote on the wall the military vehicle numbers of their trucks and the captain in charge's name on the cave wall. footprints cave and writings found by the two campers. They exit stage left of their story when they heard the guy was shot at the gas station. POOF and she was gone.

 

[Springfield]

In the incongruous atmosphere of the Wilshire Hotel in Los Angeles, an extraordinary encounter took place in 1979. During the Dalai Lama's first visit to North America, he met with three Hopi elders. The spiritual leaders agreed to speak in only in their Native tongues. Through Hopi elder and interpreter Thomas Benyakya, delegation head Grandfather David's first words to the Dalai Lama were: "Welcome home."

Tibet Hopi Connection

 

[Springfield]

This is the original catholic church at Taos Pueblo. Ever wonder why it was destroyed in 1680?

 

[treasminder2]

To be honest, no. But a quick glance at wikipedia draws my attention to Pope. Probably where I would start, were I to look deeper. Maybe the wrong direction?

Since Springfield has already read my post on this at another forum years ago

I'll post this for Nobody who lives in Colorado

near and above the small village of Ophir , between Delores and Teluride


can be found on a Mesa top the following

Grooves cut 1 1/2 inches deep for hundredsw of yards

perfectly straight

perfectly half round in shape

two intersecting gooves that cross

form the crooked cross which symbolizes the ley lines of the Golden Mean of
sacred geometry .


Found in 1985 by friends of mine on a Deer Hunt

these groves are Lazer beam straight


the depth of the grooves are consistent the entire legnth of each


near by and all around are set stone monuments

these are cut into the hard rock surface of the Mesa .


Ancient


please, do not ask for more details
I long ago forgot the exact location of where you can find this sacred site


the grooves appear to have been cut with a lazer <---<< someone spell that word for me

bad day to day

 

[Springfield]

...Grab Guttenberg's Press by the horns. Why hold back? This is the Information Age. Pull a rangler. Start a thread. Type some stuff up in Word and then put in several posts, occupying the whole first page of a thread that will last for years and reach 83 pages...

New Mexico Confidential: 30 Years of Snooping in Obscure Places: Stephen D Clark: 9781481062961: Amazon.com: Books