Thomas Jefferson stated:

[Rebel - KGC]

What do expect from someone who still watches Fox news!

LOL! I DON'T!

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

no one said he was the only one with wrong ideas and practices. But that is exactly the point. Some of his ideas were good and some not. He was another imperfect man, so just because he was a founding father doesn't make everything he said some heavenly insight.

AND! Compared to the "UPTIGHT, STIFF-LIPPED" Brits (THEN), TJ & Gang were LIBERALS!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Then why is it ok, every time someone quotes him for some whiner to say: "He ALSO had SLAVES!"?

We all know it is irrelevant as even SOME FREE BLACKS owned slaves as well, it is just a statement meant to create shock and to discredit EVERYTHING he ever said.

Some people just can't rest whenever Thomas Jefferson is given any kind of credit. It really gets under their skin ... just like a guilty man squirming on the witness stand, they must discredit anyone who exposes the evil they have done.

"WHINER"...? YOU calling ME a WHINER...? BRING IT ON!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

well there's no record the blacks in the slave trade started a nation. And since TJ was one behind the statement " we hold that all men are created equal"
one might expect it to really mean 'all' men. not just white ones who owned land.

HECK! BEFORE the Whites & Blacks even got here, NATIVE PEOPLE had slaves from their "Indian" enemies...

 

[Red James Cash]

The Forgotten Slaves: Whites in Servitude in Early America and Industrial Britain

Hoffman reveals: The Forgotten Slaves--Whites in Servitude

Untold History: White Slaves in America



White slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Chadeaux]

well there's no record the blacks in the slave trade started a nation. And since TJ was one behind the statement " we hold that all men are created equal"
one might expect it to really mean 'all' men. not just white ones who owned land.

Put on your THINKING CAP ... one couldn't own slaves, unless one owned land. Therefore, not all land owners were white, there must have been black land owners.

Stop swallowing the Hollywood bologna about how things were. Slavery was viewed differently by both whites and blacks at that time.

You're still clinging to any straw to discredit anything Thomas Jefferson said because it is so truthful it's scary to you.

 

[Red James Cash]

Chad you should know that a libs most dire need is for somebody else to do their thinking for them.

 

[Muddyhandz]

Black land owners that owned black slaves in the time of Jefferson?

So I guess they built their own large ships and sailed over from Africa (Bringing their own slaves & lots of cash) and bought up some land and built their plantations, no problem.

I'm sure back then free enterprise was open to all colours and creeds.

NOT!

I never heard such a thing. Must of came from Fox news.



BTW, saying someone watches Fox news in not a put down but calling someone a "Whiner" is.

 

[DeepseekerADS]

Guys, let's slow down here. Founding Fathers did with the times, but NO man should ever own a slave, period.

We deal with our lives in day to day responsibility as a man, and as a free citizen.

When they carve our stones, what shall they write ?

You know, that's a darned good question. When my uncle passed, I was the only one in position, so I bought his stone - I wrote on it "He was a good father".

What will they write on ours

Who were we?

Did we take that step to ensure our children's integrity and future

I want my kids to write that I too, was a good father. And I want them to remember that I tried my best to protect their futures from the corruption, lies, and misinformation and deception this new generation has delivered to them regardless of my protests...

What was this country all about from the beginning

And just look around at what this country is today...

This is NOT the nation I wanted to deliver to my children.

Leftists, for all that you believe, your children will have to live.

Sieg Heil for you guys....

Not for my kids

 

[Red James Cash]

America’s first slave owner was a black man.

According to colonial records, the first slave owner in the United States was a black man.

Prior to 1655 there were no legal slaves in the colonies, only indentured servants. All masters were required to free their servants after their time was up. Seven years was the limit that an indentured servant could be held. Upon their release they were granted 50 acres of land. This included any Negro purchased from slave traders. Negros were also granted 50 acres upon their release.

Anthony Johnson was a Negro from modern-day Angola. He was brought to the US to work on a tobacco farm in 1619. In 1622 he was almost killed when Powhatan Indians attacked the farm. 52 out of 57 people on the farm perished in the attack. He married a female black servant while working on the farm.

When Anthony was released he was legally recognized as a “free Negro” and ran a successful farm. In 1651 he held 250 acres and five black indentured servants. In 1654, it was time for Anthony to release John Casor, a black indentured servant. Instead Anthony told Casor he was extending his time. Casor left and became employed by the free white man Robert Parker.

Anthony Johnson sued Robert Parker in the Northampton Court in 1654. In 1655, the court ruled that Anthony Johnson could hold John Casor indefinitely. The court gave judicial sanction for blacks to own slave of their own race. Thus Casor became the first permanent slave and Johnson the first slave owner.

Whites still could not legally hold a black servant as an indefinite slave until 1670. In that year, the colonial assembly passed legislation permitting free whites, blacks, and Indians the right to own blacks as slaves.

By 1699, the number of free blacks prompted fears of a “Negro insurrection.” Virginia Colonial ordered the repatriation of freed blacks back to Africa. Many blacks sold themselves to white masters so they would not have to go to Africa. This was the first effort to gently repatriate free blacks back to Africa. The modern nations of Sierra Leone and Liberia both originated as colonies of repatriated former black slaves.

However, black slave owners continued to thrive in the United States.

By 1830 there were 3,775 black families living in the South who owned black slaves. By 1860 there were about 3,000 slaves owned by black households in the city of New Orleans alone.

Sources:
John Casor
Anthony Johnson

 

[austin]

Jefferson wanted a nation of yeoman farmers.

He was the principal author of the Northwest Ordinance, which sold land off to settlers making their way west in 40 acre parcels, small enough for anyone to purchase. We all know this story, and most of us are part of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinance_of_1784[/UR
In spite of speculation and the inevitable abuses, the ownership of land was spread quite evenly across the Midwest, with fewer of the massive estates that came to dominate the southern and eastern regions. I don't think it's to far fetched to say that without that Ordinance, the US may have returned to an aristocracy.

As far as slavery, the Ordinance laid the foundation for toppling slavery by prohibiting it in the new territories (later states). Knowing that Jefferson was a smart man, I'm convinced that he did that for the purpose of ending slavery. Of course, it couldn't be done otherwise in his time. I don't think he foresaw that it would take a civil war to accomplish it, but that's speculative.

On his tour of the United States — nearly fifty years after the Ordinance — Alexis de Tocqueville discoursed at length about the [URL="http://www.tocqueville.org/oh3.htm"]differences between Ohio and Kentucky. This article concludes with his prescient words:

“The State of Ohio is separated from Kentucky just by one river; on either side of it the soil is equally fertile, and the situation equally favorable, and yet everything is different.​

Here (in Ohio) a population devoured by feverish activity, trying every means to make its fortune; the population seems poor to look at, for they work with their hands, but that work is the source of riches. There (in Kentucky) is a people which makes others work for it and shows little compassion, a people without energy, mettle or the spirit of enterprise…​

The population of Kentucky, which has been peopled for nearly a century, grows slowly. Ohio only joined the Confederation thirty years ago and has a million inhabitants. Within those thirty years Ohio has become the entrepot for the wealth that goes up and down the Mississippi; it has opened two canals and joined the Gulf of Mexico to the North Coast; meanwhile Kentucky, older and perhaps better placed, stood still.​

These differences cannot be attributed to any other cause but slavery. It degrades the black population and enervates the white. Its fatal effects are recognized, and yet it is preserved and will be preserved for a long time more…”
​

Aristocracy or Democracy. A vital economy or feudalism.

I am tired of everyone quoting Jefferson for their own agendas. He was in the top 5 people in his time responsible for our democracy. They had the power, and they gave it to us. Who among us would do that now?

Read up on him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson

We owe a lot to him.

I teach this and have read BOOKS, not some internet article. You don't have a clue. Jefferson didn't care about yeoman farmers, he wanted to secure as much land as possible for the United States. That's one reason he sent Lewis and Clark to the Pacific too. Jefferson would be considered a liberal of sorts today, but he was constantly broke, had an almost lifelong affair with one of his slaves, freed their kids, but not her, hated John Marshall and most Federalists and thought he knew everything. Pretty much like you. Take a class...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Black land owners that owned black slaves in the time of Jefferson?

So I guess they built their own large ships and sailed over from Africa (Bringing their own slaves & lots of cash) and bought up some land and built their plantations, no problem.

I'm sure back then free enterprise was open to all colours and creeds.

NOT!

I never heard such a thing. Must of came from Fox news.



BTW, saying someone watches Fox news in not a put down but calling someone a "Whiner" is.

YEP!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

The Forgotten Slaves: Whites in Servitude in Early America and Industrial Britain

Hoffman reveals: The Forgotten Slaves--Whites in Servitude

Untold History: White Slaves in America



White slavery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

YEP!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Wife & I are going to Monticello this Saturday for the Heritage Festival (an hour away); Poplar Forest is 15 minutes away from us. TJ is MY "kin"; DYK...? TJ was NOT a Christian; DID not believe in the Divinity of Christ Jesus (see JEFFERSON BIBLE); his NEW TESTAMENT reflected that Jesus was a JUST, MORAL MAN (Human)... TJ DID believe in GOD, he was a DEIST. NEVER a member of ANY church (attended many); NEVER a FreeMason; WAS influenced by the "OLD"
French ROSICRUCIANS (can see their influence in the "designs" of the Academical Village... "OLD" University of Virginia, courthouses throughout Central Virginia where we live), and OVERALL, I am proud of him, and revere him, as familiy will do; my older brother graduated from UVA in 1965. I graduated from JMU in 1977/78 (2 degrees). Lived in Charlottesville, Va. 1981-1985; researched TJ in the "stack" (OLD papers on TJ) at Alderman's Library down from the Rotunda (HEAVILY influenced by ROSICRUCIAN Architecture).

 

[Chadeaux]

Black land owners that owned black slaves in the time of Jefferson?

So I guess they built their own large ships and sailed over from Africa (Bringing their own slaves & lots of cash) and bought up some land and built their plantations, no problem.

I'm sure back then free enterprise was open to all colours and creeds.

NOT!

I never heard such a thing. Must of came from Fox news.



BTW, saying someone watches Fox news in not a put down but calling someone a "Whiner" is.

The individual in this picture is the author of the 1934 book "100 Amazing Facts About the Negro With Complete Proof"



His name was Joel Augustus Rogers, an African American.

There is an upcoming PBS special produced by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. this fall entitled "The African Americans: Many Rivers to Cross".

It might be educational, and put to rest some of the silliness stated earlier about "Yeah, well, Thomas Jefferson owned slaves!"

This is a quote - which is supposed to be explored in the special - that I found interesting:

John Hope Franklin said: "The majority of Negro owners of slaves had some personal interest in their property." But, he admits, "There were instances, however, in which free Negroes had a real economic interest in the institution of slavery and held slaves in order to improve their economic status."

Yes, most purchased family members ("had some personal interest in their property"), but there was also a profit motive involved. They purchased their fellow African-Americans to be, well, SLAVES.

Muddyhanz, you might want to refer to the articles cited before going off half cocked.

The source cited comes from a site called "the Root" (Black News, Opinion, Politics and Culture - The Root) which is an African-American website which is very ANTI CONSERVATIVE (GOP's Failure to Honor Martin Luther King Jr.) and very ANTI FOX NEWS (visit the site, I won't provide those links for you).

You see, the problem is your stereotyping of anyone who doesn't bow and sacrifice at the altar of a certain big Zero guy. You assume that because I don't see him as the second coming of Jesus Christ I must be a racist.

Your lack of knowledge in this matter is YOUR LOSS. I am diverse, can you be too?

 

[Muddyhandz]

Great stuff! I'll do my own research into the matter, if I bring myself to really care.
Chadeaux, who are you speaking to in your last paragraph? If it's me well, I couldn't give a rat's azz about your president.
You are full of such dramatics, always calling someone a whiny liberal or an Obuma follower. I have seen your type at forums like this time and time again.
What really is your agenda? I mean, to get all heated up about politics is so stone age.
As if it matters if your president is right or left. He's just a puppet.
Not like Thomas Jefferson. He was a real president.
Alas, pouring over his quotes is futile. Capitalism has destroyed everything your founding fathers built.

 

[Chadeaux]

As if it matters if your president is right or left. He's just a puppet.
Not like Thomas Jefferson. He was a real president.
Alas, pouring over his quotes is futile. Capitalism has destroyed everything your founding fathers built.

I agree with the first sentence and the second.

Why do I get so wound up? The last real president was killed in 1963 ... since then it has been a shadow government, not capitalism.

I watch the dog and pony show, and it gets me upset --- but not as much as the folks who fall for it and attack what I hold dear.

Hope that makes things clearer.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I agree with the first sentence and the second.

Why do I get so wound up? The last real president was killed in 1963 ... since then it has been a shadow government, not capitalism.

I watch the dog and pony show, and it gets me upset --- but not as much as the folks who fall for it and attack what I hold dear.

Hope that makes things clearer.

JFK...? Hmmm...

 

[Chadeaux]

JFK...? Hmmm...

What do you think? I could be wrong, but seems that was the turning point from responsibility to reliance, from pride in a job well done to "gimme my check!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Hmmm... "Domino Theory"...?