Trump letter - Pebble Mine

[ratled]

This week’s letter to President Trump is on behalf the Pebble Mine out of Alaska. It is a very interesting story for those who haven’t followed it. They are up against the exact same folks that the independent miners and prospectors of the West coast are, the same junk science and preconceived agendas. It has the EPA stepping in overriding the Army Corp, very questionable contact and interaction with NGOS’s, state and federal officials. One of the key players even fled the US for some time!
https://www.adn.com/environment/article/hard-find-retired-epa-scientist-tells-where-hes-been-and-why-he-fought-pebble/2016/04/04/

I have mentioned the Pebble Mine in the past, but as a big outfit and not what we are use to as independent miners and prospectors, IT's THE REASON IT IS THIS WEEK’S THEME, and it clearly shows that what can happen to us little guys can happen to the big boys. THIS is why the big outfits need to pay attention to what happens to us. Additionally, it shows that the new administration is concerned with minerals on federally managed public lands. Rep. Smith, Texas, and House Science Committee chair, wrote a letter to the EPA citing the questionable science http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/532402-house-urges-epa-rescind-veto-alaskan-mine-despite-local-opposition.html and just yesterday, 3/8/17, the White House Press Secretary announced in his daily briefing that President Trump was meeting that day with newly minted DOI Secretary Zinke and two Alaska senators to discuss how to best manage federally managed public lands in Alaska. While it is just on Alaska (and I’m sure Pebble will be discussed) it clearly shows that minerals are in the administrations big plan. We just need to get the independent gold miners and prospectors to be part of that plan.

Make no mistake about it, even the biggest outfits get their big money makers by putting some poor guy on the ground walking around prospecting.

Sorry for being a little long winded but this week’s theme is a little outside of the box for some of us. In addition to sending this week’s letter to President Trump I will be cc’ing it to Rep Smith out of Texas and the House Science Committee Chair, DOI Secretary Zinke, EPA Administrator Pruitt, and Rep Rob Bishop out of Utah, the House Resource Committee Chair. I'll post the addresses in a bit

Thank you for your support. Please send in letters, our letter writing campaign has worked before.

ratled

As always, please send your letter to the president here https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact#page

Donald J. Trump, President of the United States
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500

Dear President Trump,

For weeks now the West Coast independent gold miners and prospectors have been asking you for assistance to get us back to work in the face of the environmental movements massive push to over regulate us out of existence. We will continue to seek your assistance to get us back to work. This week we reach out to you on behalf of one of our of big brothers, the Pebble Mine in Alaska.

Just last week Representative Smith, Texas, Chair of the House Science Committee, wrote Administrator Pruitt of the EPA asking him to reverse the extraordinary actions against the Pebble Mine “amid claims that the agency overstepped its statutory authority under President Barack Obama…… and was justified by a questionable scientific assessment that relied on predetermined conclusions developed by EPA officials,”

These are the exact same tactics that have been thrust upon the independent gold miners and prospectors of the West Coast. We been have fighting against them for 8 years now and seek assistance from your administration. Any action that we lose will be used against the other users of natural resources such as Pebble Mine, energy developers and others.

You recently met with DOI Secretary Zinke and two senators from Alaska to discuss the priorities of federally managed public lands in Alaska. We ask that you consider all the natural resource users in all of the states, especially where it impacts the independent gold miners and prospectors. The EPA and many of the state run water agencies are causing extreme undo burden upon the miners and must be stopped. In several cases they have flat out banned our pursuits.

We bring millions of dollars annually to the smaller communities we operate in. We are all hard working Americans who once used to augment our incomes, fixed income retirees who need to supplement our needs through other than hand outs, and full time miners who are just trying to scratch out an existence in the rural American West were economic opportunities can be scarce.

We look forward to working with you to Make America Great Again and get the gold miners back to work!

 

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[Sockeye1730]

Well, I'm from alaska, all for development of resources, but highly oppose Pebble.

Constructing the largest earthen dam in the world and a giant open pit on probably the largest copper ore body ever discovered at the headwaters of the most productive salmon fishery in Alaska could absolutely tragic. This will not help any of the little guys up there and most village corps are against the project. Everyone there depends on the fish for their sustenance and many for their livelyhood. Copper ions in unbelievablely small concentrations are detrimental to the fishes ability to home on their natal streams to spawn.

Anyways, just this Alaskans 2 cents

 

[ratled]

Well, I'm from alaska, all for development of resources, but highly oppose Pebble.

Constructing the largest earthen dam in the world and a giant open pit on probably the largest copper ore body ever discovered at the headwaters of the most productive salmon fishery in Alaska could absolutely tragic. This will not help any of the little guys up there and most village corps are against the project. Everyone there depends on the fish for their sustenance and many for their livelyhood. Copper ions in unbelievablely small concentrations are detrimental to the fishes ability to home on their natal streams to spawn.

Anyways, just this Alaskans 2 cents

sockeye, you missed the point. The EPA went way out of line stepping in on the Army Corp and denied the permit BEFORE the Corp could even determine to issue the permit - unprecedented in several ways. One of the NGOs actually wrote the denial on behalf of the EPA so it would be scripted in such a way that there would be no recourse for a takings case. There is a long e mail chain between the NGOs and the officials detailing this - hence the earlier RICO reference. This is just some of the stuff that is going on with the Pebble mine, and the little guys in WA, OR, ID, CA and is spreading like the cancer it is.

Whether the Pebble mine should go forth is not the issue here but how it came to be and the story it behind it is the issue. Standing up for the process not the outcome

ratled

 

[Sockeye1730]

I'm not denying the massive federal over reach up here, that's for sure!

 

[ratled]

I'm not denying the massive federal over reach up here, that's for sure!

Thanks sockeye! That is really what I am wanting to illustrate is just how out of control it is and that it's not just the EPA, or the this state or that state or even just the little guys or the big boys. This administration is out to undo as much as possible the intentional harm the previous administration went out of it's away to do. We are all in this together and if we can come together we can get out of it together.

ratled

 

[ratled]

Here are the addresses of those I am cc'ing this weeks letter

ratled

Scott Pruitt EPA
Scott Pruitt, Administrator
US Environmental Protection Agency
Environmental Protection Agency
1200 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W.
Washington, DC 20460



Ryan Zinke DOI
https://www.doi.gov/feedback
Ryan Zinke, Secretary
US Department of Interior
1849 C Street NW, Washington, DC
20240


Rep Smith Chair of the House Science Committee

Republican Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, chair of the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee
522 Hart Senate Office Building
Washington, DC 20510
Phone: (202)-224-6665
Fax: (202)-224-5301


Rob Bishop Chairman. Utah, 1st District House Resource Committee
Washington office:
123 Cannon Building
Washington, DC 20515
ph: 202-225-0453
fax: 202-225-5857

 

[DizzyDigger]

Gotta agree with Sockeye on this..the Pebble Mine is one that should
not go forward. The potential impact not only to the fish (who won't
go anywhere else) but also every meat eating creature upriver from the
mouth, including humans, is massive.

This one just ain't worth the risk.

Ratled, maybe you could rewrite the letter so that it's directed at the
thuggish overreach of the Federal agencies, and not so much about
supporting the opening of the Pebble Mine?

 

[Jeff95531]

This reminds me of the nickle mine controversy here. Altho I know nothing of the Pebble mine...and like DD said...the rewards do not outweigh the risks. While I do not support the land grab they used to "save" the area, I do have a vested interest in the only source of our city's fresh drinking water. Not to mention I have been a local to all our recent disasters and know that they didn't mean for it to happen...but it did.

 

[ratled]

Gotta agree with Sockeye on this..the Pebble Mine is one that should
not go forward. The potential impact not only to the fish (who won't
go anywhere else) but also every meat eating creature upriver from the
mouth, including humans, is massive.

This one just ain't worth the risk.

Ratled, maybe you could rewrite the letter so that it's directed at the
thuggish overreach of the Federal agencies, and not so much about
supporting the opening of the Pebble Mine?

Thanks for the input DD but "potential impact" is EXACTLY what is the issue here! Might, may, potential are the buzz words used against us, all of us.

I had a long rant in support but rather then bog this down I'll simply stand by it (though a there are some edits for spelling etc coming after this). This is about the due process that was denied Pebble mine and lately all miners on the West Coast.

ratled

 

[Jeff95531]

As I said, the due process of Pebble is something I need to investigate further. How about when, where and how bad? I've seen graphic examples of each but I thank you ratled for agreeing to disagree. I know my concerns are but a whisper in the winds on this forum and I seek nothing other than responsible mining for each and everyone of us.

 

[Bejay]

The tactic used by those who want to deny the access and use of natural resources has long been one of projecting a potential risk: (projected fear). "MAY CAUSE" an adverse impact, or "MIGHT CAUSE" are typical buzz phrases to initiate the process of denying utilization of natural resources. Once the hypothetical concept is proposed it is then an endless process of contriving anything and everything to justify the concept of: "may or might harm".

In science this is not an acceptable method of reaching an outcome. In science one must prove that the hypothesis is factually true before any consideration is given for a determined outcome! Within the political arena today the politicians are subject to decision making based on human emotions as opposed to actual scientific data. One can identify potential risks and if valid they can be mitigated or in many cases made to be moot issues. There is nothing wrong with identifying that which may be true but science demands proof that facts support any outcome. Unfortunately we see that politics is guided by the emotions of voters...and voters are what determines a politicians security.

Bejay

 

[wildminer]

I had been on the fence on this Pebble Mine issue for a long time. I am troubled by the lack of due process concerning the granting of permits, however, the might, maybe and could issue concerning the chance of failure in an earthquake zone seems to be akin to building a nuclear facility in a earthquake zone, as far as damaging another resource that is currently being utilized is concerned. So, personally, I say no to the mine and to hell with the EPA. Keep up the good work, Ratled.

 

[Sockeye1730]

This Alaskan will oppose Pebble, no matter the politics involved. Bristol Bay is far too important to this land, these people, and this nation. The risk is far, far too great.

I fully support mineral development in Alaska, notably the Kensington Mine here in J-town which was allowed via a highly controversial EPA decision under the Bush admin and could have been struck down by the Obama admin.

As a nation, we have already squandered the greatest salmon fishery in the history of the earth, due inpart, for of cheap electricity to smelt aluminum.

If you want outrage, look into the road at King Cove
LIsa will have your back on that one.

 

[Sockeye1730]

*edit* this is in response to Bejay's post

No offense, but you obviously don't understand science. Nothing is certain, by definition. It's all about p-values and confidence intervals.

 

[ratled]

I have come to question the "fish"story for many reasons. My favorite is when we where in a conference call (outside of the court room gag order) with some of the opposition when they told this heart felt story of Freddy the Fry and Sammy the Salmon when talking about a run of springer salmon. They told tales of their sagas and it ended when they said this particular years run had only 55 individuals return to the spawning waters. They said that even the mere presence of a gold miner walking along the bank posed a threat to the salmon and would cause undo stress to the fish. They let it hang in the air for a minute and waited before looking for a reply.

I simply asked Mark Stopher, DFW biologist then assigned to the mining issue, is there a an authorized springer season and approved take methods as part of the over all fisheries management plan. He said there is...... I questioned how could a salmon know the difference between a miner, kayaker, camper and fisherman and why these folks wouldn't stress them as well. He said they wouldn't. I asked why aren't they banning them like the miners...........

Salmon is just one of the many important resources that must be properly managed just as the miners. Expanding to new ways like the fish ranching, like can be found around Juneau, and controlling the European and Asian fishing industries from decimating the fish as they come out from under the polar ice are just some of the ways to properly manage that resource. Stopping a full blown industry at every level because some don't like them, they "might" cause a harm to a fish or there is "potential impact" when there is actual harm allowed elsewhere is a crock

ratled

 

[Sockeye1730]

Nice strawman, bit please, focus on the actual issue.

 

[Sockeye1730]

And seriously, "fish ranching" ? Really?

 

[ratled]

And seriously, "fish ranching" ? Really?

Yep, big thing down there, impressive to watch too. Different than fish farming. They raise fry and release them the following year. Several years later they not only return but swim right up the processing line. They have 3 shifts a day working during the various salmon runs. Nice tourist gig and no boating accidents either

ratled

NOTE: Sorry I said fish ranching, the spokesperson used the term Ocean ranching. My apologies

 

[ratled]

Nice strawman, bit please, focus on the actual issue.

Please, lets do. This is gold mining forum and this thread is about the undoing of over reaching regulation of mining by agenda driven groups. I am a gold miner who has not been able to use my federal mining rights on my federal mining claim. So for the straw man comment from a handle like sockeye that has only been here for a month..... well what can I say

ratled

 

[Sockeye1730]

Ok, sure
They do "ranch" chum salmon here in SE AK for terminal harvest areas, however, it does not really work for sockeyes, the primary fishery in Bristol Bay. They are entirely different species with different requirements rearing and spawning. Apples and oranges