Turn off the LAMP

[Jimi D Pirate]

Lamp posted this yesterday in The Keeper's Blog and hopefully it will not help, thought you might like to read just how most of them feel about us Treasure Hunters - Finders - Salvors

The Keeper's Blog - http://www.staugustinelighthouse.com/blog/

 

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[Amona]

Errr Say what! looking for and discovering historical artifacts ( treasure hunting) is not good for archaeology or Florida ? excuse if I am wrong but was not Florida itself discovered by Spanish treasure hunters and in closing there is a Spanish galleon on the state quarter , the Spanish did not come to see a lighthouse they came for treasure!

You're right but times change including the laws. The way the people appreciate and look a Galleon in 1700's is not the same way you look it now in 2008.Unfortunately Commercial salvor (the most) are not Archaeologist with the preparation for some University to work in an Archeology site, that is the point the Archaeologist argue.

"Dozens of historically significant colonial shipwrecks have been virtually destroyed by treasure hunters, it is time this practice came to an end."
http://www.staugustinelighthouse.com/blog/lamposts/action_alert_the_treasure_hunt.php#more


First off, the Spaniard came here looking for a shorter way to India, then, when Amerigo vespucci(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci) came here, he said "this is not India, is a new continent" then Spaniard begun to remove gold to be sent to Spain.When they begun to remove the gold, there wasn't regulation about treasure hunting, not even the Archeology didn't exist as career, therefore, your comparison between past and present regarding treasure hunting is not relevant in this topic.

I don't know what will happen with all Salvor's investment if this rules turn in law??

regard

Amona

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Good afternon Ladies & Gentlemen: I posted this, let's see if he actually posts it publically.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Previewing your Comment
Good morning Chuck, if I may be so informal. To a point I agree with you, but it isn't simply black and white.

If it wasn't for treasure hunters, how many new wrecks would ever be found or even end up with enough funding to complete an archaeological survey / recovery?

How many search and surveys has the state of Florida "ever" financed?
How many are they even contemplating?

No, my friend, while I sympathize with your ideas / ideals, I also sympathize with the practicalities of life.

You wish financing and the finding of new locations of still unkbnown wrecks, then let there be a marriage of both professions.They need each other, and each others skills and financial abilities, they compliment each other rather than being involved in a silly conflict..

This rather reminds me of the old adage "Divided they fall" in this case "Divided they both fail", together, they form an unbeatable, practical combination for the benifit of the World.

With your permission, I will post this reply in several other sites, both Archaeolgically and commnercial recoveries aligned.

Posted by: Joseph Curry | October 21, 2008 2:34 PM


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Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[scubatreasure]

I would like to know how many artifacts these BASS TURDS have in their private collection....never have i seen a more clue less bunch of self righteous pompus asses in my life....i wonder how much of the tax payers money was spent on the dogs underwater adventure in the gulf of Mexico....

 

[FISHEYE]

The dog was never underwater,they had a coffer dam built around the shipwreck.The dog walked on the planks.

 

[allen_idaho]

All this arguement about archaeological preservation is essentially pointless. I mean take a step back and look at the facts.

Shipwrecks from the 1700's are lucky to survive as anything more than ballast stones and a few bits of barnacle encrusted timber. Good luck learning anything from that. Maybe if you are lucky you will find a chunk of keel buried in the sand.

At some point, almost every shipwreck in the world is going to dissolve away into nothing. Even the Titanic is disappearing. It's just the nature of the beast.

Only a handful of people are ever going to dive down to any given shipwreck to actually see it. The rest might catch a glimpse of it on television but will probably change the channel. So what is the point in protecting it?

In the long run, does maritime archaeology really matter? What do they expect to learn about human culture in that time period that they haven't already? Is there some ancient sailing rosetta stone that archaeologists expect to find or what?

 

[ivan salis]

its a control issue -- and a money issue -- like aways -- someone wants to be da bossman, and exploit the peons -- life never really changes in the long haul now does it? king of spain in 1715 got his roya;l1 / 5 th--(20%)--the state of florida gets 20% in their contracts -- same cut the "king" got --all hail the "new" king

 

[JoeSWFla]

Have to agree with Allen on that one. The history and archeaology of our past is interesting,
but they already have tons of information on how they lived in those times,and we are not
going back to that way of life.The old expression used to be "FIND a need and fill it". Now a
lot of groups are using a new one-"MAKE a need and fill it".Just call everything "cultural
heritage" and lay claim to it,and exclude everyone else in the process,and deny them their
basic rights.Pretty good scam.

 

[pcolaboy]

This whole thing from the archaeologists standpoint is more about self-preservation than historical resource preservation in my opinion. There are dozens of colonial shipwrecks in Pensacola Bay that have been located and partially excavated by the UWF Marine Archaeology Department (students) with only a few 'token trinkets' displayed in our local museums. With the abundance of wrecks just out their backdoor, UWF has essentially guaranteed their program's longevity for decades.

I am all for the preservation of historical shipwrecks, but they certainly aren't in any hurry to insure that history is preserved on these sites so long as they have tuition-paying students available for their program.

Pcola

 

[FISHEYE]

What i found was interesting is that any university that has excavated a wreck in florida has extensive logs on thier websites,lots of artifacts,animal bones,never any mention of humans bones or any gold or silver artifacts,now why is that?Sailors have died on wrecks and they were known to carry even a few gold or silver coins.

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Fisheye, as I understand it, gold and silver usually go to University alumnus and the students are instructed not to report any human remains or else their project will come to a halt!

 

[billinstuart]

As one who identified a complete ship keel washed up after a hurricane, only to be told by the state "archeologists" it was a bridge timber, I'm a little short on respect for those bozos. Same with LAMP, who had the same opinion.

BTW, Tommy Gore verified it was a keel. Now who am I gonna believe..Mr. Gore, who has seen every sunken ship on the east coast, or some desk jockey in Tallahassee??

I've been involved with historic preservation of buildings for 40 years..I gotta pretty good grasp of the process. These state archeologists are WAYYY off base. Just as not every old building is a landmark, not every shipwreck is the Titanic. These are utility products created by man. They have a finite life, and then disappear. You simply can't save everything.

 

[JahMan2003]

Errr Say what! looking for and discovering historical artifacts ( treasure hunting) is not good for archaeology or Florida ? excuse if I am wrong but was not Florida itself discovered by Spanish treasure hunters and in closing there is a Spanish galleon on the state quarter , the Spanish did not come to see a lighthouse they came for treasure!

As a member of this forum who has indian blood in his veins (don't know ho w much exactly, since in my g-g-grandad's time it was something to be ashamed about, so the family stories lack details), I'm not sure Spanish 'treasure hunters' 'discovered' Florida. If so, then who were the guys waiting on the beach to greet them, either with offers to trade or with weapons brandished (unfortunatly not more of the latter).

Expand your notion of history--just because a white man stepped foot on a beach doesn't mean he 'discovered' it. Just my two cents.

 

[wwwtimmcp]

I think it is time the states started doing what its people tell them to do and not what they feel like doing. I say we make them put it to a vote. just because a wreck is in their jurisdiction does not make them the owners. much like mineral rights they only decide who found it first and staked their claim.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

1715 hunter POM ( prisoner of her majesty ) Did they teach you world history or history according to the English, you forgot to mention
how Francis Drake would take natives and then sell them to the Spanish as salves ! Now there's a real treasure hunter :
Didn't the English give him some sort of award for this People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks !
Ossy

 

[Amona]

1715 hunter POM ( prisoner of her majesty ) Did they teach you world history or history according to the English, you forgot to mention
how Francis Drake would take natives and then sell them to the Spanish as salves ! Now there's a real treasure hunter :
Didn't the English give him some sort of award for this People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks !
Ossy

Amona

 

[Elario]

1715 hunter POM ( prisoner of her majesty ) Did they teach you world history or history according to the English, you forgot to mention
how Francis Drake would take natives and then sell them to the Spanish as salves ! Now there's a real treasure hunter :
Didn't the English give him some sort of award for this People in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks !
Ossy

What is a "salve"? Also is it true that Australia started off as a prison colony? I bet my brother a case of beer he is wrong but he swears up and down it was?

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Electro you owe your brother a case of beer we have iron shackles to prove it ,and just for
stealing a loaf of bread.
Ossy

 

[scubatreasure]

For the love of God please tell me what this has to do with the topic..."turn off the lamp"

did you people even bother to read the part about who the lamp is?...

and what it is they are trying to do?...

I to have Indian blood running thru my vain's and am insulted by your remarks that recorded history started with Ponce De Leon...the Indians where evolving and recorded there history but we cant dig it up to reveal it because people like these friggin light house keeping but heads are so self indulged in there bull sh*t accomplishments that we the people cant get down to business unless we go to some half assed Ivy league college and kiss up to some swelled headed bass turd in his ivory tower...

stick that in your pipe and smoke it!

 

[scubatreasure]

and for that matter if you want to split hairs on recorded history what about Christopher Columbus....did he not record his trip to Florida.....in the 1400"s
say mabe 1492