Turtle effigy pipe?

[Birky]

I'm not exactly sure what the posting etiquette is here but rather than retyping my previous post in "Todays finds" I'll first try the lazy route and hope for the best..

Over this past weekend I was fortunate enough to come across what I consider to be the find of a lifetime..though In my lingering excitement I may be exaggerating things just a bit..

I believe it is an effigy pipe, constructed from sandstone and it was found in southwestern Ohio in an area that I only know to have been inhabited by the Shawnee, whether or not it predates them is far beyond me. That is my limited knowledge on the matter so please do excuse my ignorance..

Any insight and info into it's origins/material/age etc.. would be phenominal.

Background story here:http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/today-s-finds/373910-what-i-think.html

 

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[Birky]

It sounds like you are starting to get disappointed. Do not be disappointed by any opinion that was formed while looking at a picture. You know it was in the dirt. Until someone can give an absolute 100% reason for you to believe the piece is no good, it's still in the game. I have a pendant that I almost wish I had never found. I know how you feel. Every time I show the pendant to people, I feel as if they believe I'm lying about finding it. I have absolutely no reason to doubt your word. Others should not doubt it either. Good luck on an explanation and I hope you hear what you want.

Thank you for those very encouraging words and as you say, I know it was in the dirt. The circumstances under which I found it tell me theres very little chance it isn't authentic. That or it would had to have been one sick joke..and nobody jumped out of the the trees screaming GOTCHA! so for now I remain pretty confident.

Keep on searching and may your hunts be prosperous my friend,
Chris

 

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[Birky]

Chris I noticed the difference in patina also. Some closer pics of the eyes and mouth would be nice. The pic of the bowl that NC enlarged looks pretty good. We would need your location to steer you to someone close for a in hand inspection. Also the general area it was found at always helps.

Thanks Catherine and I'm gonna try to get those photos up tonight. I'm in the Cincinnati area and the piece was found in a creek bed near the Ohio river. Let me know if you need me to be more specific than that.

HH,
Chris

 

[Birky]

Birky, what part of Ohio are you in? I know it says southwestern, but does that mean the Cincy area? If so you can send trevmma a PM on here and see if he could look at it for you. He and his buddy Shane are from the area, Springboro I think, and both are very good with artifacts. I would trust Trevs opinion.

Yes Grim, I'm in the Cincy area and thank you for your advice and recommendation(s)

I will drop Trev a line and see what we can work out.

HH,
Chris

 

[painterx7]

Plus it is really hard to see everything through a camera shot sometimes when your holding a piece looking at it with your own eyes you see things that the camera doesn't great advice rack

 

[Birky]

Never let someone's opinion change what you think of something you found. If you picked it up yourself then you know what matters. I have posted artifacts that other have made comments on and sometimes it will prick your skin if it is thin, but on here when you post something it is open to eyes all over by the pics you take. With out someone putting a 100 power loop on it and know what to look for can anyone say for sure anything about your find. Good Luck and HH

Thanks rack, and as you said I pulled it from the earth so I'm extremely confident in it's origins. For now I can't believe that it's anything but authentic though I do respect everyones opinion(s)

Soon they all will be believers!

Cheers and HH

Chris

 

[rock]

Thanks rack, and as you said I pulled it from the earth so I'm extremely confident in it's origins. For now I can't believe that it's anything but authentic though I do respect everyones opinion(s)

Soon they all will be believers!

Cheers and HH

Chris

If you ever find anything like it again make sure not to clean it with harsh cleaners and do not use a tooth pick to clean the craved sections. Tooth picks or hard materials can take the patina off of it and that will cause for doubt. Believe it or not there are many reproductions made of everything now days. HH, rock

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

If you found it odds are it is authentic, bad cleaning of artifacts can ruin some and many times devalue the value of artifacts and can make it hard to identify as to authenticity via photographs......

 

[MUD(S.W.A.T)]

I think its genuine....!! All you doubters really think someone is going to fake a pipe take it to a Native site and drop it on the ground...?? especially on private property ?? You should ask the owners of the property if anyone could have done that. The color difference means nothing, its a rock they have different shades and colors naturally. More so from sitting in the wind, sand/dirt and rain. Its a ROCK, you'll have those so called "Patina" (That's not even the right word) changes..!! As for the holes, I think one or more of them are natural and some carved... I don't think anyone drilled them or anything threaded made them. The hole on top if drilled would be a perfect circle and its not... I think its genuine you should have it checked out by a big collage archaeological department or take it to an expert if you can. Before you dismiss this find....

My banner vote still stands !!

Keep @ it and HH !!

 

[Birky]

I think its genuine....!! All you doubters really think someone is going to fake a pipe take it to a Native site and drop it on the ground...?? especially on private property ?? You should ask the owners of the property if anyone could have done that. The color difference means nothing, its a rock they have different shades and colors naturally. More so from sitting in the wind, sand/dirt and rain. Its a ROCK, you'll have those so called "Patina" (That's not even the right word) changes..!! As for the holes, I think one or more of them are natural and some carved... I don't think anyone drilled them or anything threaded made them. The hole on top if drilled would be a perfect circle and its not... I think its genuine you should have it checked out by a big collage archaeological department or take it to an expert if you can. Before you dismiss this find....

My banner vote still stands !!

Keep @ it and HH !!

I now fully understand why the piece is being doubted by some here MUD and I'm kicking myself for ever removing one speckle of dirt from it in the first place. After all, they can only go by what they see in the photos and compare it to what they know..it's telling them something isn't right and I believe I've caused that SOMETHING..

At the same time I have to agree with everything you've said. I did indeed call the property owners and discuss with them just what you suggested because it's the only possibility that the piece isn't 100% what it appears to be. I got the very response that I expected..which was a laugh from the other end of the phone... The odds are extremely more unlikely in my opinion, that somebody "re-produced" this piece and buried it in a clay shelf somewhere on private property in hopes to someday play a nasty joke on the likes of me..it just seems preposterous

Also, as I've studied it I can see that every place where the stone appears to be tooled/surface material removed bares the same darker coloration (almost a bluish/purple color) as if to suggest that this is the natural color of the core of the stone itself..so I don't know what to think.

But at the end of the day those who are questioning the piece can only go by what they see and I definitely can't fault them for that.

Next step is to have it examined "hands-on"

HH and thank you for all of your support sir!

Chris