U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/8/22/200930.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/8/22/200930.shtml
U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
- Thread starter jeff of pa
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dudes2112
Hero Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
I guess I don't follow the reasoning behind this?? What would private ownership of gold or silver have anything to do with "emergencies"? Especially now that money isn't backed by anything but faith... Maybe I'm just not understanding something about this.
Dudes
I guess I don't follow the reasoning behind this?? What would private ownership of gold or silver have anything to do with "emergencies"? Especially now that money isn't backed by anything but faith... Maybe I'm just not understanding something about this.
Dudes
rgecy
Bronze Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
That is exactly why they assert the power to take your gold or silver, because paper money is based on faith to some degree! It is actually based on Gold reserves and the trading value of money can certainly be reflected by a nations debt. In time of war, the only thing you could use that maintains its value is gold or silver. During the Civil War, WWI and WWII, the US and other countries used gold to buy goods and war supplies.
Robert in SC
That is exactly why they assert the power to take your gold or silver, because paper money is based on faith to some degree! It is actually based on Gold reserves and the trading value of money can certainly be reflected by a nations debt. In time of war, the only thing you could use that maintains its value is gold or silver. During the Civil War, WWI and WWII, the US and other countries used gold to buy goods and war supplies.
Robert in SC
Illinois Jeff
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Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
JUST ANOTHER LAW TO GRAB YOUR FINDS OR YOUR PERSONAL INVESTMENTS WHEN THE GOV. FEELS THE NEED.
JUST ANOTHER LAW TO GRAB YOUR FINDS OR YOUR PERSONAL INVESTMENTS WHEN THE GOV. FEELS THE NEED.
snake35
Hero Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
The I.R.S. does not like for people to move money around without them being able to get a piece of it. All they have to say is drug dealers and money laundering and the Constitution goes right out the window. Just because you are paranoid, does not mean people are not out to get you.
The I.R.S. does not like for people to move money around without them being able to get a piece of it. All they have to say is drug dealers and money laundering and the Constitution goes right out the window. Just because you are paranoid, does not mean people are not out to get you.
wmas1960
Sr. Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
I just skimmed over the article and didn't get the concern that some others seem to have. Not saying that anyone is wrong or paranoid or anything. I guess everyone has their own things to be concerned for. As a very small fish in this lake. (metals investing) I am a little sketchy but it sounds a lot like it has mostly to do with the potential of assisting an enemy, adversary or someone whom we don't approve of their actions, by trading or selling their assets and wealth (gold and silver) in ways that can assist their inappropriate or potentially threatening actions which we don't like or may fear can be used against us.
A question here. While it wasn't relative to a war, isn't this what was done with South Africa and the Krugerands? For some time, American Citizens were not able to legally acquire them as it was felt that to buy them would be to assist South Africa in activities that we (our country or government) didn't approve of.
Thus another reason why, if you are going to buy Bullion coins for your portfolios, safety, security or for that potential of an emergency, think of sources that would be less likely to be in conflict with us. Buying Australian Kangaroos or Canadian Maple Leafs over Chineese Pandas, for example. EDIT -- I should point that I am not saying that China is an adversary or anything. Just putting on a scale countries that we know are pretty aliant with us and another that has had more differences and offers more potential for future conflict. There are others out there too. I am not that familiar with available sources for Bullion Coinage so I don't know who they might be. Or, just buy American Eagles and you know you won't have as much of an issue. Unless our security were to become so bad that the government would actually be siezing assets of the people in order to fund a state of emergency. In which case anything you own won't be safe.
I just skimmed over the article and didn't get the concern that some others seem to have. Not saying that anyone is wrong or paranoid or anything. I guess everyone has their own things to be concerned for. As a very small fish in this lake. (metals investing) I am a little sketchy but it sounds a lot like it has mostly to do with the potential of assisting an enemy, adversary or someone whom we don't approve of their actions, by trading or selling their assets and wealth (gold and silver) in ways that can assist their inappropriate or potentially threatening actions which we don't like or may fear can be used against us.
A question here. While it wasn't relative to a war, isn't this what was done with South Africa and the Krugerands? For some time, American Citizens were not able to legally acquire them as it was felt that to buy them would be to assist South Africa in activities that we (our country or government) didn't approve of.
Thus another reason why, if you are going to buy Bullion coins for your portfolios, safety, security or for that potential of an emergency, think of sources that would be less likely to be in conflict with us. Buying Australian Kangaroos or Canadian Maple Leafs over Chineese Pandas, for example. EDIT -- I should point that I am not saying that China is an adversary or anything. Just putting on a scale countries that we know are pretty aliant with us and another that has had more differences and offers more potential for future conflict. There are others out there too. I am not that familiar with available sources for Bullion Coinage so I don't know who they might be. Or, just buy American Eagles and you know you won't have as much of an issue. Unless our security were to become so bad that the government would actually be siezing assets of the people in order to fund a state of emergency. In which case anything you own won't be safe.
wmas1960
Sr. Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
OH, something else comes to mind. Maybe some will think this is putting a head in the sand or something but I also would like to point out that, just because the governemnt or some individual in the governemnt states that they believe that they have the power to do something, and asserts that belief, doesn't mean that they have any intention, immediate or even future, to actually use it. It could be that they are just expressing a potential if ever needed. Further, I would think that any attempt to actually assert or execute that right will likely end up going through the courts as people start to assert their constitutional rights to Life, Liberty and Property. It will ultimately have to be decided by the Supreme Court as to whether the government can, actually sieze such property.
OH, something else comes to mind. Maybe some will think this is putting a head in the sand or something but I also would like to point out that, just because the governemnt or some individual in the governemnt states that they believe that they have the power to do something, and asserts that belief, doesn't mean that they have any intention, immediate or even future, to actually use it. It could be that they are just expressing a potential if ever needed. Further, I would think that any attempt to actually assert or execute that right will likely end up going through the courts as people start to assert their constitutional rights to Life, Liberty and Property. It will ultimately have to be decided by the Supreme Court as to whether the government can, actually sieze such property.
Jeffro
Silver Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
Its an outdated law, been there since 1917, as the article states. Our money hasn't been on the gold/silver standard for quite some time. It has NO backing by gold or silver.
Much like other outdated laws, the government rarely uses them unless they feel they have to in some particular case. Kinda like nailing Al Capone on tax evasion.
Jeff, if you read more into GATA, I think you'll find them interesting.... far beyond just this one thing. Been reading articles by them in ICMJ for several years now.
Its an outdated law, been there since 1917, as the article states. Our money hasn't been on the gold/silver standard for quite some time. It has NO backing by gold or silver.
Much like other outdated laws, the government rarely uses them unless they feel they have to in some particular case. Kinda like nailing Al Capone on tax evasion.
Jeff, if you read more into GATA, I think you'll find them interesting.... far beyond just this one thing. Been reading articles by them in ICMJ for several years now.
EDDE
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Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
"Jeff, if you read more into GATA, I think you'll find them interesting.... far beyond just this one thing. Been reading articles by them in ICMJ for several years now."
ummm jeffro english for use folk not familiar with oregonian??
"Jeff, if you read more into GATA, I think you'll find them interesting.... far beyond just this one thing. Been reading articles by them in ICMJ for several years now."
ummm jeffro english for use folk not familiar with oregonian??
OP
OP
- Thread starter
- #10
Jeffro
Silver Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
Jeff got it, first try, lol! I had no idea I needed a translator, heheheheh! For starters, its ORY-GUN,
not ORA-GONE...
Jeff got it, first try, lol! I had no idea I needed a translator, heheheheh! For starters, its ORY-GUN,
not ORA-GONE...
F
ferrouser
Guest
Wmas, try figureing out
How much $$$ it will cost you get get your property back. The thing about laws is that they can be redirected at anyone.
RICO was passed strictly for dealing with the MOB, now its used against everybody.
That's the empire building aspect of federal laws and bureaucracies that enforce them.
How much $$$ it will cost you get get your property back. The thing about laws is that they can be redirected at anyone.
RICO was passed strictly for dealing with the MOB, now its used against everybody.
That's the empire building aspect of federal laws and bureaucracies that enforce them.
gollum
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Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
Remember, it was illegal for private citizens to own or possess gold in any form 1933 until 1979. When the government took people's personal gold away in 1933, they issued them "Gold Certificates" for the same amount. Problem was, the gold certificates stayed at the same value, while gold prices kept rising. You handed the government 1 oz of gold in 1933 and got gold certificates valued at $33. In 1979, you traded in those $33 in certificates and got $33 worth of gold (1/4-1/5th of an ounce).
Mike
Remember, it was illegal for private citizens to own or possess gold in any form 1933 until 1979. When the government took people's personal gold away in 1933, they issued them "Gold Certificates" for the same amount. Problem was, the gold certificates stayed at the same value, while gold prices kept rising. You handed the government 1 oz of gold in 1933 and got gold certificates valued at $33. In 1979, you traded in those $33 in certificates and got $33 worth of gold (1/4-1/5th of an ounce).
Mike
Cannonman17
Bronze Member
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
If they did take our silver and gold can you imagine how many more caches there would be to detect??!!
If they did take our silver and gold can you imagine how many more caches there would be to detect??!!
F
ferrouser
Guest
"PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
Gold was not illegal to own in any form-look at the jewelry made in those years. And coins from before 1933 were retained also.
Gold was not illegal to own in any form-look at the jewelry made in those years. And coins from before 1933 were retained also.
gollum
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Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
Sorry FW,
I mispoke. Not in any form, you are right about jewelry, but mistaken about coinage. Read the following:
The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled
An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',
in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.
Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.
Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.
Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.
Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.
Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.
Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time.
/s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
It didn't matter when the coins were made, you had to give them up, unless they were rare and collectible, had a value of $100 or less, or the gold was in an unrefined state.
Mike
Sorry FW,
I mispoke. Not in any form, you are right about jewelry, but mistaken about coinage. Read the following:
The Gold Confiscation Of April 5, 1933
From: President of the United States Franklin Delano Roosevelt
To: The United States Congress
Dated: 5 April, 1933
Presidential Executive Order 6102
Forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion and Gold Certificates By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5(b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, entitled
An Act to provide relief in the existing national emergency in banking, and for other purposes~',
in which amendatory Act Congress declared that a serious emergency exists,
I, Franklin D. Roosevelt, President of the United States of America, do declare that said national emergency still continues to exist and pursuant to said section to do hereby prohibit the hoarding gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States by individuals, partnerships, associations and corporations and hereby prescribe the following regulations for carrying out the purposes of the order:
Section 1. For the purpose of this regulation, the term 'hoarding" means the withdrawal and withholding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates from the recognized and customary channels of trade. The term "person" means any individual, partnership, association or corporation.
Section 2. All persons are hereby required to deliver on or before May 1, 1933, to a Federal Reserve bank or a branch or agency thereof or to any member bank of the Federal Reserve System all gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates now owned by them or coming into their ownership on or before April 28, 1933, except the following:
(a) Such amount of gold as may be required for legitimate and customary use in industry, profession or art within a reasonable time, including gold prior to refining and stocks of gold in reasonable amounts for the usual trade requirements of owners mining and refining such gold.
(b) Gold coin and gold certificates in an amount not exceeding in the aggregate $100.00 belonging to any one person; and gold coins having recognized special value to collectors of rare and unusual coins.
(c) Gold coin and bullion earmarked or held in trust for a recognized foreign government or foreign central bank or the Bank for International Settlements.
(d) Gold coin and bullion licensed for the other proper transactions (not involving hoarding) including gold coin and gold bullion imported for the re-export or held pending action on applications for export license.
Section 3. Until otherwise ordered any person becoming the owner of any gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates after April 28, 1933, shall within three days after receipt thereof, deliver the same in the manner prescribed in Section 2; unless such gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates are held for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a),(b) or (c) of Section 2; or unless such gold coin, gold bullion is held for purposes specified in paragraph (d) of Section 2 and the person holding it is, with respect to such gold coin or bullion, a licensee or applicant for license pending action thereon.
Section 4. Upon receipt of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates delivered to it in accordance with Section 2 or 3, the Federal reserve bank or member bank will pay thereof an equivalent amount of any other form of coin or currency coined or issued under the laws of the Unites States.
Section 5. Member banks shall deliver alt gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates owned or received by them (other than as exempted under the provisions of Section 2) to the Federal reserve banks of there respective districts and receive credit or payment thereof.
Section 6. The Secretary of the Treasury, out of the sum made available to the President by Section 501 of the Act of March 9, 1933, will in all proper cases pay the reasonable costs of transportation of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates delivered to a member bank or Federal reserve bank in accordance with Sections 2, 3, or 5 hereof, including the cost of insurance, protection, and such other incidental costs as may be necessary, upon production of satisfactory evidence of such costs. Voucher forms for this purpose may be procured from Federal reserve banks.
Section 7. In cases where the delivery of gold coin, gold bullion, or gold certificates by the owners thereof within the time set forth above will involve extraordinary hardship or difficulty, the Secretary of the Treasury may, in his discretion, extend the time within which such delivery must be made. Applications for such extensions must be made in writing under oath; addressed to the Secretary of the Treasury and filed with a Federal reserve bank. Each applications must state the date to which the extension is desired, the amount and location of the gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates in respect of which such application is made and the facts showing extension to be necessary to avoid extraordinary hardship or difficulty.
Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry the purposes of this order and to issue licenses there under, through such officers or agencies as he may designate, including licenses permitting the Federal reserve banks and member banks of the Federal Reserve System, in return for an equivalent amount of other coin, currency or credit, to deliver, earmark or hold in trust gold coin or bullion to or for persons showing the need for same for any of the purposes specified in paragraphs (a), (c), and (d) of Section 2 of these regulations.
Section 9. Whoever willfully violates any provision of this Executive Order or these regulation or of any rule, regulation or license issued there under may be fined not more than $10,000, or,if a natural person may be imprisoned for not more than ten years or both; and any officer, director, or agent of any corporation who knowingly participates in any such violation may be punished by a like fine, imprisonment, or both.
This order and these regulations may be modified or revoked at any time.
/s/
Franklin D. Roosevelt
President of the United States of America
April 5, 1933
It didn't matter when the coins were made, you had to give them up, unless they were rare and collectible, had a value of $100 or less, or the gold was in an unrefined state.
Mike
G
Goldendigger68
Guest
Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
The Government wants to get their hand on your gold/silver because they know it has REAL value.
Paper money and coinage are fiat, that is the federal reserve is controlled by a private system of banks
which create money at the RAW material cost/sprinkel some Fairy dust on it,and proclaim it has value,
The U.S. government has,and does have the power to issue interest free currency, problem is corruption
and politicians.
Its all about trading worthless fiat notes to gain REAL assets such as gold/silver/land etc...
I know a coin dealer in my area who has told me the Government has requested the names of all his
customers, he claimes he does not comply with this, I dont believe him, and no longer do business there.
The Government wants to get their hand on your gold/silver because they know it has REAL value.
Paper money and coinage are fiat, that is the federal reserve is controlled by a private system of banks
which create money at the RAW material cost/sprinkel some Fairy dust on it,and proclaim it has value,
The U.S. government has,and does have the power to issue interest free currency, problem is corruption
and politicians.
Its all about trading worthless fiat notes to gain REAL assets such as gold/silver/land etc...
I know a coin dealer in my area who has told me the Government has requested the names of all his
customers, he claimes he does not comply with this, I dont believe him, and no longer do business there.
Illinois Jeff
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Re: U.S ASSERTS Power to Seize "PRIVATE" Gold & Silver
These laws have been around for some time. Every so often they are updated to strengthen the Goverments position so that it gets easier to take your finds when the so called need arises. I think if the Gov't ever tried it these days the doo doo would hit the fan. The only way i would worry is if i found some huge incredible treasure and shot my mouth off about it. If you find it, dont advertise it.
These laws have been around for some time. Every so often they are updated to strengthen the Goverments position so that it gets easier to take your finds when the so called need arises. I think if the Gov't ever tried it these days the doo doo would hit the fan. The only way i would worry is if i found some huge incredible treasure and shot my mouth off about it. If you find it, dont advertise it.
