Vikings in Newfoundland

[Smithbrown]

One hesitates to accept anything announced on 1 April,, but perhaps this is true: New evidence of Viking life in America? - BBC News

 

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[lokiblossom]

One hesitates to accept anything announced on 1 April,, but perhaps this is true: New evidence of Viking life in America? - BBC News

Thats a great catch Smithbrown, I can't believe there is not more interest. I ran across an article mentioning a satellite image of that site last summer. Very interesting to say the least.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Ryano]

The recent discoveries made using this satellite imaging tech has been impressive (buried pyramids in N.Africa, jungle ruins in the Americas). Maybe FindersKeepers can get them to point that satellite camera his way ?

 

[FinderKeeper]

The recent discoveries made using this satellite imaging tech has been impressive (buried pyramids in N.Africa, jungle ruins in the Americas). Maybe FindersKeepers can get them to point that satellite camera his way ?

We tried to get it done but our site was dug over many times and a lot of stones moved. The sites they do are untouched .

 

[Rick K]

North America sagas - the original records

Vinland Sagas

 

[rowanns]

They are fascinating aren't they Rick? The one thing that stands out for me regarding the Norse presence in Newfoundland, at the first site discovered, is the presence of butternuts. Butternuts do not grow on Newfoundland, but they can be found in New Brunswick and further west and south. So..... the Norse somehow got their hands on them, which leads one to the conclusion that they travelled elsewhere to obtain them. If the site on the southern coast of Newfoundland proves to be Norse, then it will further cement the theory of the migration further south and westward. Dr. Patricia Sutherland has done fantastic work on Baffin Island regarding trading patterns and the like. The story of the Norse in North America remains, for me, one of the most exciting areas of research.

More on the potential site in Newfoundland:

Possible 3rd Norse site near Point Rosee N.L. piques archeologist's interest - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

 

[lokiblossom]

They are fascinating aren't they Rick? The one thing that stands out for me regarding the Norse presence in Newfoundland, at the first site discovered, is the presence of butternuts. Butternuts do not grow on Newfoundland, but they can be found in New Brunswick and further west and south. So..... the Norse somehow got their hands on them, which leads one to the conclusion that they travelled elsewhere to obtain them. If the site on the southern coast of Newfoundland proves to be Norse, then it will further cement the theory of the migration further south and westward. Dr. Patricia Sutherland has done fantastic work on Baffin Island regarding trading patterns and the like. The story of the Norse in North America remains, for me, one of the most exciting areas of research.

More on the potential site in Newfoundland:

Possible 3rd Norse site near Point Rosee N.L. piques archeologist's interest - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News

Eric is said to have used the term Greenland as opposed to Iceland to lure settlers to his new discovery. So what of the term Vinland? Was it used to indicate a land of milk and honey (so to speak) a little further south? Certainly, even in the warmer period prior to the 'Little Ice Age' there were no grape vines in Newfoundland, but there is indication that they may have been more prominant in Nova Scotia.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

So..... the Norse somehow got their hands on them, which leads one to the conclusion that they travelled elsewhere to obtain them. If the site on the southern coast of Newfoundland proves to be Norse, then it will further cement the theory of the migration further south and westward.

They probably did travel further south and west, but the presence of butternuts at L'Anse aux Meadows isn't enough base any conclusions on. The nuts could have been part of a trade with First Nations.

 

[lokiblossom]

They probably did travel further south and west, but the presence of butternuts at L'Anse aux Meadows isn't enough base any conclusions on. The nuts could have been part of a trade with First Nations.

No conclusion, but certainly evidence, as is the term Vinland in the Sagas.
"Vikings in Newfoundland", being the title of this thread, the reproduction of a Viking longship "The Dragon Harold Fairhair", is now halfway between Iceland and Greenland. A friend will board it in Chicago and I will get to visit it in Bay City, Michigan in July.
Cheers, Loki

 

[Robot]

The Dragon Harold Fairhair...A "Boat" by any other "Name"?

They were Smart to Hug the Shore with Escort...rather than try to Cross the Atlantic!

 

[bill_wabo]

There was a PBS documentary on it few weeks ago. You can probably go ont their web site to watch it. It was really interesting.

 

[lokiblossom]

They were Smart to Hug the Shore with Escort...rather than try to Cross the Atlantic!

View attachment 1314574

They are crossing the Atlantic Robot, using the same route the original Vikings used. And yes, they do have an escort and a motor as safety valves. Of course they will need a motor in the Erie and Welland Canals.
Cheers, Loki

 

[gjb]

They were Smart to Hug the Shore with Escort...rather than try to Cross the Atlantic!

I think I understood what you meant!

 

[gjb]

They probably did travel further south and west, but the presence of butternuts at L'Anse aux Meadows isn't enough base any conclusions on. The nuts could have been part of a trade with First Nations.

Just thinking about that, there’s not a lot to go on, but let’s assume that the New World portion of the Vinland Map is either genuine or a later update of an earlier version of the map from a genuine older source (perhaps Norse), that is, given there were no controversy.

We might first take for granted that Vinland isn’t an island, and maybe we might also assume that the map, or drawing, from which the outline was taken originally showed only the right-hand half of what we see - just a continuous stretch of the mainland.

We might assume, therefore, that there were capes or river mouths at the northern and southern extremities, and an inlet at the centre of this stretch of coast. Unfortunately, we don’t know how far it extends, but it seems unlikely to be a short stretch.

At first sight, it might appear to be the coast from north of Hudson Bay, the bay itself and across the entrance, then Newfoundland and the St. Laurence, and Nova Scotia to the Bay of Fundy.

I feel that completely mapping Hudson Bay would have been some achievement at that time. So, the more likely stretch of coast might be from Newfoundland, then the St Lawrence, Cape Breton Island, the headwaters to the Strait of Canso, and the rest of Nova Scotia to Fundy.

If from Viking sources, then, the Vinland Map would seem to suggest, by this particular thinking, that no record survived of their voyaging further than Fundy. So, in much the same way as the naming of Greenland, Vinland may simply have been overly optimistic as a description of the climate.

I get the impression the Vikings weren’t exactly sun-loving people. So, even if they went further south than Nova Scotia why might they think the land and climate immediately attractive for colonisation?

Also, it appears that they were accustomed to taking hops rather than long jumps. They might well eventually have taken a hop further south with a new generation had they actually settled in Nova Scotia.

So, in this view, the Vinland Map suggests the navigators who originally mapped the outline shown may well have known Nova Scotia, but we don’t know whether the information on the map pre-dates 1490 or even that it’s from Norse sources. Sad!

Just a thought. Any advance on Maine?

 

[lokiblossom]

I think I understood what you meant!

What did he mean that I didn't understand?
Cheers, Loki

 

[gjb]

What did he mean that I didn't understand? Cheers, Loki

Loki, Are you always this obtuse and challenging? I almost dread seeing messages from you!

I simply assumed that Robot had observed that the Vikings island-hopped their way across the Atlantic using the northern route: Norway, Faroes, Iceland, Greenland, Newfoundland. This was the obvious and sensible way for them to have gone, but is essentially going round the edge. I took it that this is what Robot meant by hugging the shore, though this is not what they actually did.

This is in contrast to the manner in which Columbus crossed the Atlantic - in one giant leap for mankind.

I didn’t think for one moment that Robot was saying the Vikings sailed continuously 50 feet from the ice sheet, I felt he was simply observing that they didn’t cross the Atlantic in the same way as the Spanish, Portuguese, French, Dutch or English did later on.

Robot can either verify or deny this, but I just took it that people wouldn't think to take what he said literally, and would be able to work out what he probably meant. You obviously didn’t, and I apologise for not realising this.

I therefore trust that anyone else who took Robot literally might consider the alternative interpretation presented above until such time as Robot can enlighten us himself.

I take it that by being so confrontational all the time you’re seeking to have the forum to yourself - and you’re welcome to it. As I'll no doubt get banned for observing this then you have your wish. I'm really not enjoying the friction you constantly generate, and quite frankly I'm through.

 

[Robot]

Sorry if my post may have caused any misunderstandings.

I would like to reiterate that if any member does not understand or if one is confused with anything I might state that he is free to ask questions for clarification.

 

[lokiblossom]

Sorry if my post may have caused any misunderstandings.

I would like to reiterate that if any member does not understand or if one is confused with anything I might state that he is free to ask questions for clarification.

I have no problem with your posts Robot and I don't know what gjb is on about. I did know what you meant but I do have to thank him for explaining what each of us said!
Cheers, Loki

 

[ivan salis]

lots of early sailors sailed by dead reckoning navigation (using know landmarks) -- staying close to land when ever possible ... by land and island hopping * it is very possible to go from place to place ( few people (if any) of old would try a "open water" crossing of any large body of water like the atlantic or pacific oceans) ==and while todays vessels have a motorized escort for "safety' --the old Viking boats might have been travelling in pairs or more in number and a good rowing crew of old / or sails with half way decent weather is like have a engine of sorts -- they found evidence of Viking goods and of a Viking type of village set up long ago in Canada --as close as "known" Viking settlements were and given their exploring . raiding and adventurous nature ---I'm sure the Vikings made Canada not doubt and most likely travelled and explored into America as well

it said that when Columbus was coming to America that he used old Viking maps made from knowledge gained during their 1000ish era trips to assist him

 

[sdcfia]

lots of early sailors sailed by dead reckoning navigation (using know landmarks) -- staying close to land when ever possible ... by land and island hopping * it is very possible to go from place to place ( few people (if any) of old would try a "open water" crossing of any large body of water like the atlantic or pacific oceans) ==and while todays vessels have a motorized escort for "safety' --the old Viking boats might have been travelling in pairs or more in number and a good rowing crew of old / or sails with half way decent weather is like have a engine of sorts -- they found evidence of Viking goods and of a Viking type of village set up long ago in Canada --as close as "known" Viking settlements were and given their exploring . raiding and adventurous nature ---I'm sure the Vikings made Canada not doubt and most likely travelled and explored into America as well

it said that when Columbus was coming to America that he used old Viking maps made from knowledge gained during their 1000ish era trips to assist him

We know that many ancient mariners simply followed a latitude (east-west) track, and then, if they were able to find known landfalls, might adjust to (north-south). This results in a zig-zag course which is fraught with the potential of error. Determining longitude was their problem. It's said that some of these guys possessed ancient knowledge of celestial navigation using the stars circling the ecliptic poles (zodiac constellations) rather than the north-south poles, from which longitude would be obtainable. If so, they guarded that secret closely. Thing is, there's a lot we don't know about history.