The deathbed map "picture " . what is the story behind it?
Waltz's deathbed map
- Thread starter Doc4261
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audigger53
Hero Member
There really was one? I thought he just talked and Julia made and sold maps.
which story?....the truth is nobody really knows what waltz said
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Posted this on another site today:
I believe it is Weaver's Needle, drawn by a man on his death bed who had not seen that view for a number of years. He was drawing it from memory.
This is the view that can be seen coming east from above the massacre grounds. Julia and Rhiney made their first attempt to enter the mountains from Hog Canyon. Their second attempt was from Second Water Trailhead. In essence, that brackets the entrance that would have given them the view of Weaver's Needle which Waltz drew. Probably just a coincidence........It also would have led them to Willow Spring and Ruth's eventual campsite. It's also where you would end up following Bicknell's instructions. By another coincidence, it leads to one of the Xs on the Stone Maps. I was told by one of my team members in 2004 that there was a monumented, sealed mine at that location. He was the only one who made the climb up from West Boulder Canyon.
Here's some speculation.......Waltz is prospecting the western end of the Superstitions. He finds the massacre grounds with bags of rich gold ore lying on the ground. Thinking the original owners may return for their ore, he loads up his burro(s) with all they can carry and moves it east into the mountains and creates some caches. He makes up the story of the mine to explain the rich ore he has in Phoenix and sticks to that story for the rest of his life.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
I believe it is Weaver's Needle, drawn by a man on his death bed who had not seen that view for a number of years. He was drawing it from memory.
This is the view that can be seen coming east from above the massacre grounds. Julia and Rhiney made their first attempt to enter the mountains from Hog Canyon. Their second attempt was from Second Water Trailhead. In essence, that brackets the entrance that would have given them the view of Weaver's Needle which Waltz drew. Probably just a coincidence........It also would have led them to Willow Spring and Ruth's eventual campsite. It's also where you would end up following Bicknell's instructions. By another coincidence, it leads to one of the Xs on the Stone Maps. I was told by one of my team members in 2004 that there was a monumented, sealed mine at that location. He was the only one who made the climb up from West Boulder Canyon.
Here's some speculation.......Waltz is prospecting the western end of the Superstitions. He finds the massacre grounds with bags of rich gold ore lying on the ground. Thinking the original owners may return for their ore, he loads up his burro(s) with all they can carry and moves it east into the mountains and creates some caches. He makes up the story of the mine to explain the rich ore he has in Phoenix and sticks to that story for the rest of his life.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
audigger53
Hero Member
Here's some speculation.......Waltz is prospecting the western end of the Superstitions. He finds the massacre grounds with bags of rich gold ore lying on the ground. Thinking the original owners may return for their ore, he loads up his burro(s) with all they can carry and moves it east into the mountains and creates some caches. He makes up the story of the mine to explain the rich ore he has in Phoenix and sticks to that story for the rest of his life.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo[/QUOTE]
Well that might be part of it, but the story in the Ariz. Republic., that I read was 2 trenches, one 50 feet and the other 70 feet with 8 inch diameter leather bags with processed gold in them. In 1948 it was $26 million. But the guy was only to keep $260K.
the rest was 50% treasure trove tax and then 98% Income tax. Have no idea what the Arizona State tax was. That taught me and him a good lesson. You can have the money or have the fame, not both. The story was filler 3 pages back from the front page about the extradition of the guy from Hawaii that shot his best friend over a 2 Lb. nugget of Iron Pyrite.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo[/QUOTE]
Well that might be part of it, but the story in the Ariz. Republic., that I read was 2 trenches, one 50 feet and the other 70 feet with 8 inch diameter leather bags with processed gold in them. In 1948 it was $26 million. But the guy was only to keep $260K.
the rest was 50% treasure trove tax and then 98% Income tax. Have no idea what the Arizona State tax was. That taught me and him a good lesson. You can have the money or have the fame, not both. The story was filler 3 pages back from the front page about the extradition of the guy from Hawaii that shot his best friend over a 2 Lb. nugget of Iron Pyrite.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Well that might be part of it, but the story in the Ariz. Republic., that I read was 2 trenches, one 50 feet and the other 70 feet with 8 inch diameter leather bags with processed gold in them. In 1948 it was $26 million. But the guy was only to keep $260K.
the rest was 50% treasure trove tax and then 98% Income tax. Have no idea what the Arizona State tax was. That taught me and him a good lesson. You can have the money or have the fame, not both. The story was filler 3 pages back from the front page about the extradition of the guy from Hawaii that shot his best friend over a 2 Lb. nugget of Iron Pyrite.[/QUOTE]
AU,
Have to admit, if it was in the newspaper it probably has more credibility than my "speculation" story.
Good luck,
Joe
- Thread starter
- #7
Posted this on another site today:
I believe it is Weaver's Needle, drawn by a man on his death bed who had not seen that view for a number of years. He was drawing it from memory.
This is the view that can be seen coming east from above the massacre grounds. Julia and Rhiney made their first attempt to enter the mountains from Hog Canyon. Their second attempt was from Second Water Trailhead. In essence, that brackets the entrance that would have given them the view of Weaver's Needle which Waltz drew. Probably just a coincidence........It also would have led them to Willow Spring and Ruth's eventual campsite. It's also where you would end up following Bicknell's instructions. By another coincidence, it leads to one of the Xs on the Stone Maps. I was told by one of my team members in 2004 that there was a monumented, sealed mine at that location. He was the only one who made the climb up from West Boulder Canyon.
Here's some speculation.......Waltz is prospecting the western end of the Superstitions. He finds the massacre grounds with bags of rich gold ore lying on the ground. Thinking the original owners may return for their ore, he loads up his burro(s) with all they can carry and moves it east into the mountains and creates some caches. He makes up the story of the mine to explain the rich ore he has in Phoenix and sticks to that story for the rest of his life.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
I dont believe that is the view myself. But I do have the exact view from where I believe the ldm is located its the mine behind the ear on the horse map. hesitant on showing the location . I do need someone familier with the sups when I finally get to go out. if your up maybe in the future. Also the fish map shows the same mines as the horse priest maps. quite neat when puzzle pieces fit like a glove. the ldm ior mine behind the ear is missing on the fish , the 2 on the priest and other 2 on the horse are the 4 on the fish map.
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cactusjumper
Gold Member
Doc,
In that case you are due congratulations.
I can assure you everyone is looking forward to the day when you feel it is safe to reveal that location.One other thing I forgot to mention, that my location is also the general location of Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars, and one of the places where Bicknell camped in the mountains. Once again, all coincidence I assume.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
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deducer
Bronze Member
- Jan 7, 2014
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Joe,
I am curious as to what evidence you have that Willow Springs was where Ruth camped? I have been looking for corroboration on that, but couldn't find any. The nearest thing I found was the discredited Howland testimony that placed Ruth in the vicinity of Boulder Canyon around the time he died, but not at his campsite.
From Garry:
I am curious as to what evidence you have that Willow Springs was where Ruth camped? I have been looking for corroboration on that, but couldn't find any. The nearest thing I found was the discredited Howland testimony that placed Ruth in the vicinity of Boulder Canyon around the time he died, but not at his campsite.
From Garry:
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- Thread starter
- #10
Doc,
In that case you are due congratulations.
One other thing I forgot to mention, that my location is also the general location of Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars, and one of the places where Bicknell camped in the mountains. Once again, all coincidence I assume.
Good luck,
Joe Ribaudo
I do believe the monument u speak of is where horse stone map was made. Ive seen some of your posts. How often do u go out? Im in Ny so it is a trip for me to be able to go. Im not familiar with the mnts myself. But I do like good mystery.
markmar
Silver Member
- Oct 17, 2012
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What made you believe the LDM is the mine behind the Horse ( stone map ) ear ?
- Thread starter
- #13
The view same as the death bed scribble and does fit the few clues that I believe he said.
markmar
Silver Member
- Oct 17, 2012
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Have you a new clue ? because I don't know about a " horse " clue that Waltz said .
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- Thread starter
- #15
Horse head is on the horse stone map . nothing to do with a horse clue from waltz. there is this clue but I think its wrong , should say above the horse head not below. misdirection ?? I dotn know. Above the mine was a cliff like a horse’s head.
cactusjumper
Gold Member
In answer to Doc's question, I have not been in the Superstitions since my last trip in 2004. I can no longer walk more than a 100' or so. I have no problem helping those who are searching, with pictures or advice. I'm 72 and made my first trip into the range when I was 13.
Good luck to all,
Joe Ribaudo
cactusjumper
Gold Member
Marius,
Who's to say which version is closest to the truth? It could be that both are fact......or complete fiction. Because of the known and accepted facts that followed since Waltz died, I believe my own version of events. Anyone who believes my story does not agree with their own beliefs will have another opinion. At this point in time, everything is unproven.
Good luck,
Joe
- Thread starter
- #18
The view that is from the mine behind the horses ear has the view of the death bed map. it is high can cant get to it from below or above have to get to it from the side. Just as the clue of how to get there. Im not familiar with the mountains but it look pretty rough to get there.
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