WARD BASED HIS STORY ON ORIGINAL "THE BEALE PAPERS" PUBLISHED 1850

[Rebel - KGC]

if Ward wrote the story WHY?
See the following link of reference {reference only}
Beale Ciphers Analyses

John W. Sherman memorial
John William Sherman (1859 - 1938) - Find A Grave Memorial

General Beale biography
Gen Edward Fitzgerald Beale (1822 - 1893) - Find A Grave Memorial

Ward DIDN'T write it; he was ONLY the AGENT for the author, to get COPY-RIGHT. Attempted in 1884; succeeded (got Copy-Right in 1885 & BEALE PAPERS were then Published/Released in 1885 to "General Public"). Sherman had NOTHING to do with it, unless he was on Inner Circle "committee" to add info (like a 'lay-out"); Gen. Ed Fitz BEALE Story added "historical" real-to-life "adventure".

 

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[ECS]

John William Sherman who wrote western/treasure dime novels was a cousin to J B Ward who held copyright and published the 1885 BEALE PAPERS was cousin to the Hutter brothers,one who may have written the Beale story,the other who recieved CSA Sec of State Benjamin's personal copy of Vattel's Law of Nations (used as CSA code/cipher)at Danville after the fall of Richmond.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

John William Ward who wrote western/treasure dime novels was a cousin to J B Ward who held copyright and published the 1885 BEALE PAPERS was cousin to the Hutter brothers,one who may have written the Beale story,the other who recieved CSA Sec of State Benjamin's personal copy of Vattel's Law of Nations (used as CSA code/cipher)at Danville after the fall of Richmond.

Hmmm...

 

[ECS]

That should have been John William Sherman,not Ward.
I corrected that post.

 

[Salvor6]

ECS said "John William Ward who wrote western/treasure dime novels was a cousin to J B Ward who held copyright and published the 1885 BEALE PAPERS"

ECS do you have any documentation that J.B. Ward actually published the 1885 Beale papers? It seems like J. W. Ward just made this up to sell more dime novels.

 

[ECS]

...

ECS do you have any documentation that J.B. Ward actually published the 1885 Beale papers?...

Salvor6,it is obvious that you have not this thread or have a basic knowledge concerning the 1885 Beale Papers,and that J B Ward applied and recieved a copyright from the US Copyright Office.
I reckon that is documentation that can be verified.

 

[ECS]

Ward DIDN'T write it; he was ONLY the AGENT for the author, to get COPY-RIGHT. Attempted in 1884; succeeded (got Copy-Right in 1885 & BEALE PAPERS were then Published/Released in 1885 to "General Public"). Sherman had NOTHING to do with it, unless he was on Inner Circle "committee" to add info (like a 'lay-out"); Gen. Ed Fitz BEALE Story added "historical" real-to-life "adventure".

There have been many theories concerning the origin of the Beale "treasure" on this thread,from the dime novel to the French connection to the CSA treasury,but in the end analysis,the origin lies with the Hutters and Ward,and maybe Sherman.Placing historical fact into the 1885 BEALE PAPERS to prove the treasure's existence will always be futile.

 

[bigscoop]

There have been many theories concerning the origin of the Beale "treasure" on this thread,from the dime novel to the French connection to the CSA treasury,but in the end analysis,the origin lies with the Hutters and Ward,and maybe Sherman.Placing historical fact into the 1885 BEALE PAPERS to prove the treasure's existence will always be futile.

And to add to the origin, actually, Hutter and Sherman were never mentioned in the pamphlet, Sherman simply being attached to the publication. All else came from the minds and mouths of men. I do believe.

Today I'm 30% dime novel, 30% a French thing, 30% an Adam's Onis Treaty thing, and the other 10% I'm keeping in reserve for any other possible theory that might come alone that has even a sliver of reasonable possibility.

 

[ECS]

Today I'm 30% dime novel, 30% a French thing, 30% an Adam's Onis Treaty thing, and the other 10% I'm keeping in reserve for any other possible theory that might come alone that has even a sliver of reasonable possibility.

Still,when one attempts to place a "French thing","Adams-Onis Treaty thing",etc into the Beale tale,the sliver of possibilty becomes only attempt of making unrelated pieces fit into the story to support ones theory.It all comes back to the 1885 Beale phamphlet which contained the disclaimer-"devote only such time as can be spared from your legitmate business to the task,and if you can spare no time,LET THE MATTER ALONE".
The author,be it Ward,Sherman,or a Hutter,is clearly stating,this treasure tale is for "entertainment purpose only".

 

[bigscoop]

Still,when one attempts to place a "French thing","Adams-Onis Treaty thing",etc into the Beale tale,the sliver of possibilty becomes only attempt of making unrelated pieces fit into the story to support ones theory.It all comes back to the 1885 Beale phamphlet which contained the disclaimer-"devote only such time as can be spared from your legitmate business to the task,and if you can spare no time,LET THE MATTER ALONE".
The author,be it Ward,Sherman,or a Hutter,is clearly stating,this treasure tale is for "entertainment purpose only".

And there is that 30% of the portion of this mystery that still can't be proven. It's interesting that you keep including Hutter......? As you say, you can keep trying to force him into a theory but he simply wasn't a part of the original tale. So I guess we're all still not 100% sure about any of it beyond what we want to believe might be possible.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

And there is that 30% of the portion of this mystery that still can't be proven. It's interesting that you keep including Hutter......? As you say, you can keep trying to force him into a theory but he simply wasn't a part of the original tale. So I guess we're all still not 100% sure about any of it beyond what we want to believe might be possible.

LOL! Was Sherman...? I am MORE interested in the 1850 pamphlet by Ward... NEVER heard of it; I WILL do R & I on it... sounds INTERESTING!

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! Was Sherman...? I am MORE interested in the 1850 pamphlet by Ward... NEVER heard of it; I WILL do R & I on it... sounds INTERESTING!

Nope....Sherman was not a part of the original tale, just attached to its publishing/printing. As for an 1850 pamphlet by Ward, you got me?

 

[tat2guy]

1850 pamphlet Do tell. I feel left out lol

 

[Old Silver]

There have been many theories concerning the origin of the Beale "treasure" on this thread,from the dime novel to the French connection to the CSA treasury,but in the end analysis,the origin lies with the Hutters and Ward,and maybe Sherman.Placing historical fact into the 1885 BEALE PAPERS to prove the treasure's existence will always be futile.

You use the word "MAYBE" as proof of your theory? Bad form, bro.

 

[bigscoop]

I think what ECS means to say is that, truth be told, and in plain black and white, there is no proof of anything beyond a simple fictional tale about adventure and treasure. This, of course, is true.

However, it's also obvious that even those who believe in the fictional dime novel theory aren't 100% convinced. To date, all that can really be said of the tale is that it provides a brilliant but simple mystery that is still leaving everyone to forge their best guess.

 

[treasure1822]

Information taken from page 4 Angelfire


The Origin of The Beale Papersby Rich Wassmer Many people believe The Beale Ciphers are a hoax and have given extensive evidence why this is true. No one ,however, has given evidence of how this story was formed or how the fictitious weights of gold and silver were concocted. I will now show how it was done. Even though TBP calls its hero Thomas J Beale or TJB, the reader is almost compelled to believe the full name was Thomas Jefferson Beale. This is because the DOI(authored by Jefferson) was used to solve Cipher 2. The idea to create TBP based on Jefferson probably arose first along with Beales Name. The hotel proprietor Robert Morris(s) name fit perfectly because Robert Morris(one S) was a signer of the DOI and helped finance the Revolutionary War. He was also the first Treasurer of the US and had Western land speculations). Also Jefferson was active in early cryptography and was the first person to give a detailed description on how to use a book cipher in a letter to James Madison. The idea to use Jefferson might also be traced to a quote in “The Jefferson Cyclopedia” where he says “In all this I am merely a Cipher”. Jefferson was from Virginia and had land in Bedford County so why not bury the Treasure in Virginia. The central theme of the DOI was Liberty and Independence. Bedford City was called Liberty until 1890 so Bedford County is a perfect burial place. The founders of America went west from England to find their “treasured land” so TJB should go west to find treasure. The version of the DOI in TBP is 1324 words but because of discrepancies in word count it effectively is only 1312 words long. Only this 1312 DOI will correctly decipher Cipher 2, with a few corrections.The 3 ciphers are: C2 763 numbers(corrected) C1 520 numbers C3 618 numbers 1312 DOI word 763 = ENGLISH1312 DOI word 618 = PEOPLEThe English People is who the DOI is directed and in particular King George lll1312 DOI word 520 = MEANTIME In the original Dunlap Broadsides distributed to the colonies in 1776, word 519 was” MEAN “and 520 was” TIME.” but TBP DOI joins them into one word. Mean Time can be interpreted as time to be mean which is what KGlll and the British were. King George lll was involved in war with America in 1776 and 1812 thus the 2 shipments of treasure. The meantime of 1819 and 1821 is 1820. This is when Morriss first met Beale. King Georgelll died in 1820 so the treasure is symbolic of “freedom” from the tyranny or King George lll. Notice that Beale and party found the treasure by following Buffalo. Buffalo are peaceful animals while grizzly bear are killers. Liberty and Independence brought peace from war. Because 1820 is a meantime between 1819 and 1821 a year had to be changed. Morriss said he ran the Washington Hotel in 1820 but records show he didn’t start running it until 1823. Also this is a perfect name because Washington was the leader of the Colonial Army. The main content of the story is taken from a real life person’s story as follows:E.F. Beale was a western pioneer. His journals were published in 1850 and were called “THE BEALE PAPERS”, the same as the 1885 pamphlet by J.B.Ward. Here is a side by side comparison of the 2 stories:E.F. BEALE T.J. BEALE America West of Britain TJB found gold in Colorado west of VaCalifornia west of Virginia Started in St Louis Left St Louis, Key in St louis One trip had 30 men Beale party had 30 men Went to Santa Fe Went to Santa Fe Traveled Colorado river, Found Gold and Silver in ColoradoSaw Colorado Born in 1822 All 3 Beale letters dated 1822 J.B. ward born in 1822 Journals called Story called The Beale PapersThe Beale Papers Beale a General in the Beale elected as a Captain of a “Military type Group”U.S. Navy called “justly a Lion” called “the Lion” Beale ordered aboard vessel Cipher used DOI as key to cipher 2“Independence” in Philadelphia One of E.F. Beale’s journeys Beale started journey in 1817recorded as 1817 miles Brought back east an 8 pound TJB brought back about 8,000 poundsgold nugget to Washington, DC. of gold and silver to VirginiaHe was the first to bring backeast news of the 1848 gold strikein California. E.F Beale’s gold was found by One of Beale’s men found gold, not himsomeone else, not him Beale’s starting point was TJB buried treasure about 4 miles from Buford’s Tavern (DOI written in a Tavern)4 miles from a referencepoint. Beale got $13,000 from a Beale exchanged silver for $13,000 in jewels to save TRANSPORTATIONtransportation adventure. He The iron box was to be opened in 10 yearsgot rich in 10 years E.F. Beale’s papers used several terms similar to TBP of 1885 eg.Exact LocalityStampedeAbundance of GameMilitary AppliancesAccession to our numbersBuffaloesGrizzly Bears Like TJB’s Letter 2, one of E.F. Beale’s letter is unsigned.One letter from a MEXICAN Official ends with: INDEPENDENCE, LIBERTY, REFORM The Date for Morriss to open the box given by TJB can be derived as follows:1776 + 56(signers of DOI) = 18321312(DOI words) + 520(C2) = 1832 In B2 the number 1005 is used for “X” but word 1005 in either 1312 or 1324 DOI has no “X” in the word.In C2 one “X” is at position 485 and 485 + 520 = 1005. 1005 is at this position in C2The 3 ciphers total 1901 numbers.1005 + 1901 = 2906 This is the largest number in the 3 ciphers The weights of the 3 treasures should not have been made at random. Since TBP are a hoax, the writer wants to tease the reader by making them think that there are clues that will lead to the treasure. They don’t. The weights can be derived as follows:983(1312 DOI “Sexes”) + 31 (men incl. Morriss) = 1014 1014 pounds + 762(uncorrected numbers in C2) = 17761014= 274 = 1288 Letter 3 word 274 = “KEY” 1312 DOI word 274 = “Security” 1312 DOI word 1288 = “Independent”1005 + 902 = 1907 1312 DOI word 902 = “Tyranny” The word Tyranny is used in Beales Letter 1 on page 141776 + 160 words in C2 + 1876 = 3812 Colorado became a state in 1876 and this is the 100’th anniversary of the DOI “We knew that the "Beale Papers" were written much latter than 1822 and here is the proof. My question is was there a copy write on the 1850 paper. I would say no because there would have been copy write infringements. That would explain Ward getting a copy write, and it does increase the number of questions I have. When did James Beverly Ward's father die? Think about this, the copy of the "Beale Papers" that James Beverly Ward had was a "Specific" copy of the "Beale Papers".

 

[treasure1822]

Sorry People, that did not look like that when I copied and pasted it....

 

[bigscoop]

Interesting pitch, but still just more of the same magic pencil and word games in order to arrive at a particular solution. One of many theories out there with no real proof to substantiate that any of it is on target.

Here's the problem with all of these theories, and I do mean all of them......we're dealing with a period in history, which depending on the theory can be quite long, and it's simply too easy to fabricate a theory due to the amount of content at our disposal. So we use this content in much the same way as any creative writer in order to build our plot and to arrive at our solutions. In end we only end up fooling ourselves into believe in things that have no true relevance or connection. This is why, as a creative writer, I have always said that the Beale papers are dangerous, because you can easily fall into the trap of believing in the illusion of your own design. Nothing wrong with researching history and creating a good tale, but when we start believing it to be fact without the presence of that fact then it will lead one astray and into a land of pure fantasy.

I've learned this the hard way as will others. "Without documentation you simply have blind hope."

 

[ECS]

...

Here's the problem with all of these theories, and I do mean all of them......we're dealing with a period in history, which depending on the theory can be quite long, and it's simply too easy to fabricate a theory due to the amount of content at our disposal... I have always said that the Beale papers are dangerous, because you can easily fall into the trap of believing in the illusion of your own design. Nothing wrong with researching history and creating a good tale, but when we start believing it to be fact without the presence of that fact then it will lead one astray and into a land of pure fantasy.

I've learned this the hard way as will others. "Without documentation you simply have blind hope."

Hence,the disclaimer in the 1885 BEALE PAPERS-"Let the matter alone"-a tale of pure fantasy for entertainment purposes only.

 

[ECS]

1850 pamphlet Do tell. I feel left out lol

The 1850 "BEALE PAPERS" by E F Beale which was used as a basis of events in the 1885 "BEALE PAPERS".