What are theses and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

[wfoster74]

What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

on the cross side you can see a stamp that looks like it was put in later after it was made. what is that for? Oh and what are they.


http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc252/wfoster74/SDC10925.jpg
http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc252/wfoster74/SDC10926.jpg

 

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[Hangingfor8]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

those look like the stamps coins got when they were in asia

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Where did you obtain these? I know little about cobs but first one looks like 1687 pillars and waves type...second one is a 1733 8 reale Mexico mint maybe. But i dont know for sure.

 

[wfoster74]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

They are passed down from my father.

as for the marks on them wouldnt that be called a countermark?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

They are passed down from my father.

as for the marks on them wouldnt that be called a countermark?

Maybe chopmarks, I do not know. I posted your pic for you. Someone will help.

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

(Cob) Coin on the left: Silver 8-reales (Spanish) 1687, 'pillars and waves' variety; counterstamp "G".

Coin on the right: Silver (.916 fine) Mexico City Mint 1733 8-reales, Assayer: MF; counterstamp on reverse. Issue weight about 26.7 grams

 

[wfoster74]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

bigcypresshunter thanks for putting my pick up thier.

Since i am new to all of this can some one tell me why they would counterstrike them and what do they mean. Plus i assume the 1733 is from the 1733 wreck but how about the other? Or is thier not enouph info to tell that?

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Some countries in South America hit them with a counterstamp to tell people they were appoved for circulation. That might be an attempt at a counterstamp from Peru or Guatamala. Chopmarks are seen on most asian passed coins from other countries, usually as a single punch in of a character. Islamic country counterstamps are usually square, and contain Arabic letters like Suranep's 230 mark.

There are some issues with these coins.

 

[wfoster74]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

cuzcosquirrel,

what do you mean by "There are some issues with these coins."

you think it might be fake?

 

[Mackaydon]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Here's a pic of another counterstruck cob (1650) showing the mark: (upside down, in this case,"Crown F").
The purpose of this particular counterstamp (and others like it of the day in the Spanish colonies of North America) was to recertify the coins to be of full, or nearly, full value. (Similar coins in the immediate past had been shown to be debased--some to 30% copper from 5% copper.) The counterstamp, basically, reaffirmed full value.
http://imagedb.coinarchives.com/img/heritage/3000/image50455.jpg
Don.....

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

There is an incorrect date placement on the field of the 1687 cob as well as some other issues with it, and on the klippe cob there is some total loss in the fields of the Spanish crest which make it seem like the person who did it did not know what it was supposed to look like. These cobs were supposed to be made from very fine dies, I think manufactured in Spain. Naples and Sicily is not really there on the crest. There are thickness problems also with the design in places.

Yeah, the F is one of the local counterstamp marks given to the shield cobs of the 1630's and early 1640's to show that they were still approved for circulation after the mint scandals at Potosi and Lima.Dan Sedwick indicates that the crown F mark signifies that the 8 real had been devalued to 7 1/2 reals.

Wow, nice cob Mackaydon.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

There is an incorrect date placement on the field of the 1687 cob as well as some other issues with it, and on the klippe cob there is some total loss in the fields of the Spanish crest which make it seem like the person who did it did not know what it was supposed to look like. These cobs were supposed to be made from very fine dies, I think manufactured in Spain. Naples and Sicily is not really there on the crest. There are thickness problems also with the design in places.

Yeah, the F is one of the local counterstamp marks given to the shield cobs of the 1630's and early 1640's to show that they were still approved for circulation after the mint scandals at Potosi and Lima.

Wow, nice cob Mackaydon.

The shield markings do look strange now that you mention it.

Could we see a pic of the edges of the 1687 cob?

 

[Trez]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Nice photos....

aaaararrrrgggghhhh, cuzco is on too them....keep going, don't forget to look at the crown...YIKES.

Trez

 

[PBK]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Guatemalan countermarks, late 1830's or early 40's.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

Yes, I think we have issues here.

 

[wfoster74]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

The edges on the 1733 are really smooth. I don’t see any ruff edges on them or cut marks.
As for the 1687 smooth edges but I do see some signs of what looks like a cut mark, like how a edge would look if snipped with scissors.
My wife just left for Indonesia yesterday and she took the camera. I will get a pic of the edge for you guys this weekend when i can borrow a cam.
I will also try to weigh them and mic the thickness of them to help out. Anything else or info i can provide to help you all out?

 

[wfoster74]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

The more I look at this the more I agree that something funky is up. Take a look at the two pics. The first on is mine... the second one is a real cob from a coin site, same year same everything so on.


I marked areas on mine and the real reales to point out funky differences.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: What are these's and why does it have a stamp on both of them?

As I stated, those shield marking are funky. And like someone said, "look at the crown YIKES".. ...I dont know what it means.