What changed that original mineral survey plan and it’s focus ?

[SANTA FE NEW MEXICAN]

It is not hard to follow the course of events that transpired and come to a conclusion. In the beginning the plan was to allow the continuation of prospecting and mining after the Wilderness deadline on claims that could be proven to have a verified minable resource present. Two Federal agencies were tasked at appraising the minable mineral deposits and the later oversight of the mines and mining. Those agencies were the Bureau of Mines and the Department of Agriculture (US Forest Service). In 1973 the Bureau of Mines began its survey and strictly held to its goal and original plan. But by the fall of 1976, that agencies plan took a sharp turn. The method of sampling, the records kept and even the areas being sampled changed. Where in 1973, the entire Superstition range was being sampled, by 1976, the entire northern half of the Superstition Mountains were withdrawn from the survey and only the southern half was being sampled. This does not mean the northern half did not fall under the scope of the survey because it did, it simply was ignored and the field work that had already been accomplished there, never saw the light of day.

The early field work done by the geologists from the US Bureau of Mines, building upon Dr. Martin Stouts field work, was a thorough and meticulous analysis of the geology and mineralization of the mountains, much of that work done in the northern half of the range. The northern half of the range could be described approximately as everything north of an imaginary line running down the east west alignment of LaBarge canyon. It seems incredible that such a large portion of the SMWA would be ignored and is a question that has never been answered. The assumption is the final report concluded there was no mineralization in the northern half yet the field notes and records of the early geologists paint an altogether different picture. In fact, it shows a pattern of mineralization that would certainly at the least, require further excavation and exploration to understand the size and scope of the resources that were found by the sampling. The survey instead, from 1976 on, focused on a small area surrounding Weavers Needle and mines and prospects lying outside the proposed SMWA boundaries. Along with this zeroing in of the Weavers Needle area, much of the findings were purposely laced with the tales and legend of the Lost Dutchman mine. For what purpose one can only speculate, most likely in an attempt to minimize the survey and sensationalize the legends, making the case that mining in the Superstitions was all a big useless treasure hunt with no possibility of mineral discovery.

 

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[Oroblanco]

HOLA amigo Santa Fe New Mexican,

<Begin political RANT>
I think you already KNOW the answers here - politics were involved from top to (almost) bottom; even Senator John McCain got involved. The protectionists wanted it and had the political pull, the geologic studies HAD to conform to their pre-determined result. The US Bureau of Mines is the ONE arm of federal government that I miss the most - they alone seem to have been on the side of prospectors and miners. With the demise of the USBM, the individual prospectors and treasure hunters lost an important ally in the government.

Before someone jumps in to inform me that the US Geological Survey has taken over the responsibilities of the former USBM, I am all too aware of this fact and if you think "we the people" are getting the same level of information, studies and service that we used to, then I suspect you are not aware of the numerous publications and studies done by the Bureau of Mines.

We see a similar situation going on almost continuously with the creation of new "wildernesses" just about anywhere that a prospector or treasure hunter might stand a chance of finding something. We have no voice or representation when these decisions are being made even though they directly affect our lives and it always reduces our areas for individual "pursuit of happiness".

One more thing and I will get off my soapbox - to everyone reading this, remind your congressmen/women and president, that we support and still need the 1872 Mining Law, it is the ONLY law that gives US citizens the RIGHT to enter onto the public lands. Tell them HANDS OFF!
<\END political RANT>


Sorry for the 'rant' there amigos, this is a hot-button subject for me.

I believe that two of the studies done on the Superstitions Wilderness and/or "roadless area" are online, the links are here in other threads or just do a Google search. Just my opinion as a prospector, but really the Superstitions as we call it today are not the most promising area to look for gold and silver, there are far more promising areas in other districts of Arizona - heck there are something like over 80 different gold and silver districts in the state. Really the 'lure' of the Superstitions is tied to the Lost Dutchman and/or the legends of lost Peralta mines, unless we include the larger area which was formerly called the Superstitions, then the very rich Goldfield district, the Rogers district, the Silver King area etc are indeed highly mineralized and excellent areas for a prospector to find a new deposit. If I were after gold, I would sure look at some other areas before heading into the Superstitions, unless of course if one could find Waltz's mine then there would be little incentive to look elsewhere. There is gold in the Superstitions, don't get me wrong, you can even pan out a little in a few places but generally speaking the area is not that mineralized. The total amount of gold that Mrs O and I have recovered from the Superstitions from all our efforts would not fill a one-pennyweight vial. <***There are twenty pennyweights per troy ounce***> For contrast, there are folks whom have recovered up to an ounce a day just by working the beach sands of Nome AK. Something our readers ought to consider, if they are looking for a good place to find some gold.

Oroblanco

 

[cactusjumper]

More information can be found here:

http://www.admmr.state.az.us/DigitalLibrary/USBM_MLA/USBM_MLA_136-82.pdf

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Oroblanco]

Thanks Joe. I kind of kick myself for NOT having staked at least a couple of mining claims before the wilderness rules went into effect. But we just never found anything that would legally pass the 'prudent man' test, though I suspect that some folks were staking claims without any kind of a discovery of a valuable mineral.

This ought to be a good lesson for anyone who is interested in treasure hunting or prospecting, or wants these pursuits to be available to our grandchildren - to STOP creating more and more "wildernesses", national monuments, "wild and scenic areas" etc for these areas are FOREVER CLOSED to these pursuits and we can never get these status reversed. I hate to keep bugging folks about this but lobby your congressmen/women to protect and preserve the 1872 Mining Law, it is the ONLY law which grants us the RIGHT to enter onto the Public Lands.
Oroblanco

 

[maui]

oroblanco, you have a VERY good point and more people should get involved to try and save our rights to prospect and treasure hunt. thank you. ron

 

[cactusjumper]

The problem, as I see it, is the fact that folks looking for treasure are prone to dynamite historical landmarks into mud puddles......and have. The government, as usual, stepped in with over-broad regulations to protect
those historical sites from a very specific problem. I believe the problem is not regulations, but focus.

Celeste Jones was in the process of methodically destroying Weaver's Needle before she ran out of money.
Given enough time and money from backers, she would have changed the face of that mountain. There are a number of such scars in the Superstitions.

The people who cleaned out what was being called the Silver Chief Mine, left their trash all over the landscape. Once gold fever sets in, even good people can turn into ecological slobs. Globe is a perfect example of how ugly things can get. It's only one of tens of thousands, perhaps millions, of such projects.
The area around Silverton Colorado is absolutely breathtaking, except for where mining and heavy prospecting took place.

We are now reaping the "benefits" of our early prospector and miner's lack of regulations. If there is one thing I have learned, it's that you can never go back. You will all have to learn to live with the consequences of what was done in the past.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Azhiker]

"The problem, as I see it, is the fact that folks looking for treasure are prone to dynamite historical landmarks into mud puddles......and have."

I think everyone would have to agree the above broad sweeping statement painting folks looking for treasure as being prone to dynamite historical landmarks is way over the top. The proper statement would be, some individuals looking for treasure have occasionally used dynamite. But they are the vast exception by far. I hardly think the rational response to a woman or two using some dynamite to look for treasure is to create a million acre wilderness and closing public access to thousands of people.

When Maria Jones used dynamite on the Needle she was not breaking any laws. The proper response would have been to deal with Jones and the Needle individually. There is no justification in any reasonable mind to grab an enormous tract of land because someone used some dynamite in an area where it was not against the law to use that dynamite. Dynamite was used in the Superstitions by all the early cattlemen to clear rocks and boulders for roads and trails and for opening up new water sources. Sadly, people have always left behind trash and debris, Yellowstone park cleans up tons of trash every year people dump and leave behind, they did it 100 years ago, 10 years ago and they will do it again tomorrow. Most people do not trash the environment however, the few who do are not bothered by a "wilderness".

The Superstition Mountains in the 1960's were beautiful and rugged but they were not a wilderness as they had been used by cattlemen and ranchers, homesteader's and miners for the better part of a century. I think the point here is not that the "wilderness" had to be saved from the miners, the area should never have been made into a "wilderness" in the first place, and the incidents of abuse should have been handled individually as they occured.

 

[cactusjumper]

The partial quote left this out:

"The government, as usual, stepped in with over-broad regulations to protect
those historical sites from a very specific problem. I believe the problem is not regulations, but focus."

I agree with everything you wrote, including the part where I should have written "some individuals".

Joe Ribaudo

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

We need to fight all this political crap (let's face it, the Bureau of Mines no longer exists, due to political wants, it was "absorbed" - thank you Babbit), but, what I fear, more than anything else, has nothing to do with me.

We are constantly losing "public lands" to places like Nature's Conservancy (which really has no business running our public lands), and by the time my grandchildren and great-grandchildren are grown people, they will have nothing truly public, except some trails that they may stay on, and unless they are mega-rich, will not be allowed to travel a big part of our country - we are "saving" it for the future - I don't know who's future, because its not saving it for OUR children and grand-childrens future - there will be no md-ing, no rock-picking, no prospecting, no biking, no ATVing, no 4-wheeling, no camping (except in designated areas, for a fee, for a place we pay for with our taxes - how many pay the government to sleep in your own bed at night - but that's what it equates to), no treasure hunting, no horseback riding (can't leave poop for the high-class, rich hikers to step in, since they cannot step around it - some places want us to pick it up - in the ground, it fertilizer, in plastic bags, its trash), no dogs, no anything.

We really need a grassroots - A HUGE grass-roots - revolution against the "Taking of America" It's being taken away from us, piece by piece, legislation by legislation, by both sides of the political spectrum, and we have no input. Those "comment periods" on legislation, they are now nothing but a legal nuisance to those who would keep us off "their" public land.

B

 

[Azhiker]

mrs. oroblanco,

You are right, the public lands have been lost to over management and selective management.
When Floyd Stone sold the old Tortilla ranch to the Forest Service, part of that agreement was the FS would ensure access to the two trailheads at the ranch and maintain the road from the Apache Trail into the ranch and trailheads. Within two years of the sale the road was impassable to anything but 4 wheel drive vehicles. While Stone ran the ranch you could drive a small car back to the ranch. The Forest Service not only refused to maintain the road, they actively worked to deteriorate it to what it is today. The FS is today considering closing the road and moving the trailheads 3 miles out to the Apache Trail adding 6 miles to anyone who hikes there.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Yep.

But, strangely enough, it was just recently when someone did, in fact, drive a small car there. Hmmmmm.

I was just reading that almost a million acres in Arizona is going to be pulled to mineral entry, while they decide if they are going to pull it permanently or for the next 20 years after that. (near the Grand Canyon).

The BLM said it is their job to do things like that. And, here, I thought their jobs were to be the "stewards" of our land, rather than the privatization organization.

Quote from BLM:

The Department of the Interior is the federal agency charged with segregating U.S. public lands for possible withdrawal


Talk about being at odds with their mission statement.

There has GOT to be legal ways to stop these organizations from changing things at will. Much like Tortilla Ranch, the Diamond Mine in Arkansas was NEVER supposed to be closed off for ANY commercial operation - but, that is exactly what they have done - they have gone against the specific last will and testament of the original owner of the land.

Just recently, back where I used to live, the guy that used to play Balke, (Bronson Pinchot) - his family had willed a piece of property right up from where my mother-in-law lived, and a mile from where we lived. The will said that it would always be for public use, only, and should never have anything built upon it - just a nice, grassy park for enjoyment of anyone and everyone. A few years ago (this was willed many years ago),
the Harford Historical Society decided that it needed a pavilion right smack dab in the middle, and of course, they would say who could and who couldn't utilize that. Bronson Pinchot took them to court.

Just recently, after many years - the Supreme Court finally decided that they had violated the will of his great great uncle, and, according to the will, if they violated the will, the property had to go back to the Pinchot family, so, it went to Bronson Pinchot. It is sad when even someone with money, has to fight in court for over 8 years (we used to metal detect there from time to time), and had to bring it to the Supreme Court to get some hick town to do the right thing. The town appealed several times, plus they wanted him to pay for their pavilion - but, now the pavilion is Pinchot's - and he has opened it back up for anyone to use - pavilion and all. So, now the hick town is trying to make a law again a pavilion in the town square - duh - Pa has a grandfather clause - so, they are STILL spending tax payer money on crap.

There is a time coming - in our lifetime, where, if you are not rich, or you are not "connected", or if you are disabled - that the public land will be off limits. (but they will still take your tax money, thank you very much).

B

 

[Azhiker]

mrs. oroblanco,

I think there is some confusion about the blue car from Colorado which was reportedly parked at the Tortilla ranch. That car was not at the ranch, it was parked just off the Apache trail at the turn off to the ranch, 3 miles from the ranch. Just setting the record straight concerning that car. There is no way a car can get up over the first 1/4 mile of the ranch road without VERY extensive building up of the road.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Azhiker,

I know exactly where it was parked.

B

 

[djui5]

When Floyd Stone sold the old Tortilla ranch to the Forest Service, part of that agreement was the FS would ensure access to the two trailheads at the ranch and maintain the road from the Apache Trail into the ranch and trailheads.

Is that documented somewhere? I drove back there in my lifted Jeep and would reason to say it isn't much of a "road" anymore.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

The thing to do would be to check into the deed and its covenants. That has to be around somewhere, if they are in place.

B

 

[Peerless67]

Mrs Oro "There has GOT to be legal ways to stop these organizations from changing things at will."


Possibly if you have a few million to spare taking them through the courts.
And if at all possible thats exactly what the American people should do, just look at the UK and the rules and regulations that are in place.
Regulations are needed, but on the whole they are in place to protect the landed gentry.
There has probably not been a better time to open those lands up to prospecting since the 1920s with the way the economy is headed all over the world.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Well, I know they are very busy going to court over the California dredging crap, but I have written to PLP - maybe they have someone looking into it, or maybe they will.

There is much more letter writing to do.

Mass emails don't help - that I know.

This is just all BS

B

 

[Azhiker]

djui5

The old Tortilla ranch was a 160 acre homestead. It had grazing allotment rights over a large part of the Superstition mountains. The ranch was landlocked but in Arizona every landlocked parcel of land has a right of way access to it. The 3 mile road from the Apache trail to the ranch was not owned by the ranch, it was on Federal government land. The ranch maintained the road itself. The owner of the ranch could have sold the ranch to anyone, he deeded it to the Federal Government because they made the highest offer. The trail system was already in place before he deeded the ranch and the two trailheads were on ranch property. The owner specified if the Federal government took over the property they would maintain the trailheads and the access to them. That was a stipulation of the transfer. How that was accomplished I do not know. Either it was a part of the deed or another agreement. The Federal and state governments have shown they do not honor agreements and promises regardless of how they were arranged. The Arizona legislature recently took funds that had been donated by an estate for the specific purpose of maintaining a nature preserve. The legislature took the funds from this gift and used it in another department for unrelated programs. As far as the FS and State are concerned, once the ink is dry, all bets are off.

 

[Cubfan64]

I'm convinced that part of the FS's plan is to restrict as much access as possible to the Superstition Wilderness. The road leading to the Massacre Grounds was recently closed making it a longer hike just to get to the area, and I personally think the Tortilla Ranch access is kept the way it is to also restrict access.

Honestly it doesn't affect me that much because I'll do whatever to get to those places when I want, it just takes longer and gives me more time to enjoy the scenery, but the "average" hiker probably won't take the time to head to those places anymore.

I know as far as the Massacre Grounds area is concerned, the stated reason for closing off easy parking access was due to kids messing the parking area up with garbage and just tearing it up with their vehicles when it was muddy.

You know, it's funny but many years ago when I was still in high school, my dream was to get involved in Natural Resources - be it as a forest ranger, wildlife specialist, etc... I didn't go down that route because at the time I spoke to folks who had earned degrees in those areas and there were quite literally almost no jobs available and I couldn't justify spending that much time and $ in schooling just to have no job when I got out. Now I look back and I'm glad I didn't go down that route for another reason - I wouldn't have been able to put up with the political BS the "little guys" in those departments have to deal with. I would have gone into it with an idealistic impression of what I wanted to achieve and been squashed from the very start. I would have become very disillusioned very quickly.

 

[Springfield]

...There has probably not been a better time to open those lands up to prospecting since the 1920s with the way the economy is headed all over the world.

These lands were prospected heavily with some success exploiting surface deposits in days of yore. Notwithstanding an alleged 'lost mine, glory-hole', etc. that may exist in this area (and in any mineralized area for that matter), 'prospecting' the area today would involve extensive core drilling of potential deeper deposits to evaluate for economic potential. The Superstition Range would not be a serious target, even if open to mineral discovery, because the chances of success in this difficult venue are minescule compared to the big-time action happening as we speak all over the world. Canada, Mexico and Alaska are alive with multi-million ounce gold deposits, not to mention Nevada, all of South America, Africa, eastern Europe and god-knows what they'll find in China. These are not only heavily mineralized areas, but also located in mining-friendly settings. I can send you a list of at least 50 exploration companies that have years worth of discoveries already blocked out with more waiting in the wings. Hell, one even has a 4-million ounce gold reserve proven in South Carolina, USA.

Opening the Superstitions to jackass prospectors trying to survive the coming depression may sound like a romantic and practical idea, but it isn't feasible for two big reasons: 1) There isn't enough recoverable gold available that hasn't been recovered already; 2) There aren't many (any) people left who know what they're looking for or what to do with it if they found it. If they did, they're already employed exploring the two-tracks of Sonora and Chihuahua.