What Have We Really Learned In Recent Weeks?

[franklin]

Well one thing we have learned, if someone questions or asked for any provenance on one of these creative solution or story claims, a cry of "personal attack" is raised as a defense of their lack of actual solid documented facts.

Well ECS where is your provenance against the Beale Treasure. You talk and post against posters and their ideas why not back up your claims.

 

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[bigscoop]

Well ECS where is your provenance against the Beale Treasure. You talk and post against posters and their ideas why not back up your claims.

Actually there's quite a bit of that contrary provenance, much of it existing within the details offered in the narration itself. All of these cold hard facts having been posted in numerous threads in these forums. But you already know a great deal of that factual information, even referenced some of it yourself in a recent thread you started detailing why the Beale Papers were just fiction. Have you forgotten about all of those same cold hard facts/provenances already?

 

[ECS]

Well ECS where is your provenance against the Beale Treasure. You talk and post against posters and their ideas why not back up your claims.

Been posted many times.
Remember my "Ward based his..." tread that discussed and covered all the various sources found in the 1885 Beale Papers- from E F Beale's memoirs and other period expedition journals to the Shakespeare references gleaned from Ward's father and cousin Sherman's Lynchburg thespian group to events and locations of the extended Risqué family bloodline of which Ward was a part, and the duel between his grandfather and Thomas Beale provided the main character name for this adventure/ treasure dime novel.
Then on another thread I discussed the syntax, word usage, and sentence structure that clearly shown that the "letters" and the narrative text were composed by the same person, be it this "unknown author", Ward, and/or with additional contributions from Ward's wife Harriet, cousin F C Hutter, and cousin and printer, John William Sherman, who most likely employed his editing skills for the continuity.
So yes, Franklin, I have provided back up for my claims many times over, and that is not even mentioning the quotes I've posted from US government professional codebreakers and professional in their respective fields.

 

[franklin]

Yes but none of the NSA or any of your quotes has definitely made the Beale Treasure fiction by provenance. You know that or you would not be here. If you could bring up where Roland Buford asked James Beverly Ward to burn all the copies now that would be provenance but you do not have it. All you have is second, third and fourth hand information just like the rest of us. I told you I would completely stop the search either for or against the Beale Treasure being Real or Fiction if you could come up with definite provenance and you have not delivered as we have not delivered either. That is why we are on here expressing ideas either for or against and you and bigscoop keep asking for provenance. That is what we all want is PROVENACE and there is none=======all specualtion and you know it.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes but none of the NSA or any of your quotes has definitely made the Beale Treasure fiction by provenance. You know that or you would not be here. If you could bring up where Roland Buford asked James Beverly Ward to burn all the copies now that would be provenance but you do not have it. All you have is second, third and fourth hand information just like the rest of us. I told you I would completely stop the search either for or against the Beale Treasure being Real or Fiction if you could come up with definite provenance and you have not delivered as we have not delivered either. That is why we are on here expressing ideas either for or against and you and bigscoop keep asking for provenance. That is what we all want is PROVENACE and there is none=======all specualtion and you know it.

Yes, that contrary provenance does exist, at least to the point that the author wasn't knowledgeable about hard rock mining or the refining for gold and silver from the region. There is provenance that length alone plays no part in the distinguishing of C1 & C3. There is provenance that C1 can't hold a grammatically correct clear text as presented by the author. There is provenance regarding the missing paper, something the author couldn't have determined unless he already knew it existed, which means he was either fabricating a tale or that he lied. And I could go on and on and on......

 

[ECS]

Yes but none of the NSA or any of your quotes has definitely made the Beale Treasure fiction by provenance. You know that or you would not be here. If you could bring up where Roland Buford asked James Beverly Ward to burn all the copies now that would be provenance but you do not have it...

I never stated that Roland Buford told James Beverly Ward to burn all the copies of the Beale pamphlet.
After Vincent Witcher talked to Roland Buford, asking if he had any knowledge of a Thomas Beale staying at his parents inn, and complaining about the use of his ancestors name being used in the pamphlet story, ask Buford to speak to Ward.
Buford spoke to Ward, but what Ward did to the remaining unsold copies he did by his own volition.

The link to that information was placed on one of the threads I started, but we have had this same discussion before.
What is the purpose of misrepresenting the content of this information when you know that is not what I had posted?

 

[ECS]

... That is why we are on here expressing ideas either for or against and you and bigscoop keep asking for provenance. That is what we all want is PROVENACE and there is none=======all specualtion and you know it.

So the following statements that have the appearance of stated fact are just speculation"

"The gold Beale and his ten associates delivered to Bedford county was contained in 30 gallon large salt brine pots from the salt works at Boone's salt mine near Franklin, Missouri...
The gold was about 14K or about 60 percent content of gold. The silver a little more pure.
It was smelted down into what is referred to as sand box cast"
-Franklin, January 29, 2016

"The gold bars were being transported in the false bottom of the wagons.
The wagons came up on Big Otter Creek.
The Beale Party had to unload the gold bars onto pack mules or horses to get the wagons across, then the gold bars were placed back into the false bottoms under the wagons".
Franklin, January 30,2016

 

[franklin]

So the following statements that have the appearance of stated fact are just speculation"

"The gold Beale and his ten associates delivered to Bedford county was contained in 30 gallon large salt brine pots from the salt works at Boone's salt mine near Franklin, Missouri...
The gold was about 14K or about 60 percent content of gold. The silver a little more pure.
It was smelted down into what is referred to as sand box cast"
-Franklin, January 29, 2016

"The gold bars were being transported in the false bottom of the wagons.
The wagons came up on Big Otter Creek.
The Beale Party had to unload the gold bars onto pack mules or horses to get the wagons across, then the gold bars were placed back into the false bottoms under the wagons".
Franklin, January 30,2016

Just as good speculation as what you have posted. Where is the link that will take me to what Vincent Witcher said to Roland Buford and Roland Buford went to talk to James Beverly Ward about the Beale Papers. I have never read it and I have never seen it. If it is in your post should be easy for you to post a link?

 

[ECS]

You must have read it, because you gave that post a "like".

 

[franklin]

You must have read it, because you gave that post a "like".

Well it must have been a fabrication of the truth because if it were real I would have followed up on the research for it. Shows that you had nothing.

 

[bigscoop]

Well it must have been a fabrication of the truth because if it were real I would have followed up on the research for it. Shows that you had nothing.

Glad to hear you say this, now then, what do you have on the Richmond TJB, the man of color, the alderman, and the possible Ward connection?

 

[ECS]

Well it must have been a fabrication of the truth because if it were real I would have followed up on the research for it. Shows that you had nothing.

Is giving a post a "like" the Franklin SEAL OF FABRICATION APPROVAL based on personal knowledge of fabrication of facts- like a CD book that is "fiction based on 99% fact".
...and you probably didn't "follow up on the research" because it contradicts many speculative assumptions that have been posted as fact.

 

[franklin]

Glad to hear you say this, now then, what do you have on the Richmond TJB, the man of color, the alderman, and the possible Ward connection?

Richmond TJB not important. He did not live in 1819, 1821. He lived in the 1880's. Since, TJB's two friends lived near the Richmond Area in 1819, 1821 then most likely TJB was from there also. But he is not your Richmond TJB. He is Richmond TJB son of Richard Eustus Beale.

 

[ECS]

... He is Richmond TJB son of Richard Eustus Beale.

Does he match this description?
"In person he was about six feet in height, with jet black eyes and hair the same color...but his most distinguishing feature was a dark and swarthy complexion, as if much exposure to the sun and weather had discolored him".- THE BEALE PAPERS

 

[franklin]

Does he match this description?
"In person he was about six feet in height, with jet black eyes and hair the same color...but his most distinguishing feature was a dark and swarthy complexion, as if much exposure to the sun and weather had discolored him".- THE BEALE PAPERS

Go back to 1822 and look at him face to face and you tell me?

 

[45th_Johnny]

It is to bad there is not list of all the documents tried to break the code. I tried the Bible this morning and remembered there are hundreds of versions of that book in English alone. I know I said I quit, but "I Have More Time Then Money."

 

[bigscoop]

Richmond TJB not important. He did not live in 1819, 1821. He lived in the 1880's. Since, TJB's two friends lived near the Richmond Area in 1819, 1821 then most likely TJB was from there also. But he is not your Richmond TJB. He is Richmond TJB son of Richard Eustus Beale.

I think you'd better check your research again..... Mr. R.E. Beale might be a little upset at you for suggesting such...

 

[ECS]

Go back to 1822 and look at him face to face and you tell me?

Will you loan me your time machine, Franklin?

 

[franklin]

Will you loan me your time machine, Franklin?

Sure use it all the time. Go to any County Clerk's Office you can Time Travel There.

 

[franklin]

I think you'd better check your research again..... Mr. R.E. Beale might be a little upset at you for suggesting such...

No my research is very accurate.