What really matters

[MadMarshall]

Gentlemen.. I still can't explain it... How many people put so much time into their equipment.. really I mostly pan as I rarely move allot of dirt rocks being most of my debri. So no real need to set up a sluice just to run a half of bucket of actual dirt. I am confident with the sluice and have used a high banker or two. Anyway I am often seeing threads and vids of how to make the sluice catch smaller gold ect ect.. It seems the SIMPLE and I mean SIMPLE art of sluicing is now a science. I put all my efforts in understanding gold and finding it I spend very little time if any caring about my sluice box and recovering the gold. I am of the thought that the gold dictates the equipment! I am often thankfull that allot of modern prospectors put so much stock in their equipment. More gold for me.... How the waterway's emptied when dredging was outlawed.. dredging seems was the only way some men could find gold!!. I wonder how many men rely on their gold detectors? I wonder how many men would be unable to find gold with out it? My point is if one who really want to be a succseful prospector one must rely on himself! Equipment is the way to recover gold that is it! Now once in a larger scale of mining yes the science will be valuable but for most of us it is worthless and I do mean worthless. Once you start spending your time finding better gold deposits and stop worrying about every piece of fly poop that may be lost I am positive in the long run your gold recovery will go up by leaps and bounds..

 

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[Oakview2]

While most of what you say is true, I would take exception with a few points, dredging was not outlawed, their was a moratorium,it was challenged via court cases, and the 2012 new permit and regs cannot be implemented until all litigation is mitigated. Prospecting with a metal dector is often in high benches far from water, or in the desert. In those your pan and ability to read creeks might be greatly hampered. As for dredging, it allows miners to explore the gut of the stream, places where the old timers because of geography, did not have the ability to divert the stream and harvest. Your attention to the golds path would likely make you successful as a underwater miner or a detectorist as long as you didn't close your mind off to learn the details of the machinery.

The second picture was a discovery made by Hoser, as I recall with his dredge. He has been successful in all manor of mining as well in the business of bringing new products to miners and suppyling miners with the correct tools to pursue their passion

The first is a nameless but well known metal detectorist, former dredger, who took the lemons given by the CA legislature and made lemonade...

Without using the tools of modern mining, they would never been able to discover such finds on virgin grounds. JMHO

I posted this so that you don't dismiss other types of minning just because they differ from what works for you. You have a natural knack for reading the path, and then exploiting it. Combine knowledge with technology, and you become deadly

 

[Goldwasher]

Not everyone lives in a place with such a rare set of circumstances geologically, as those of us in the Motherlode and other richer areas. The function/efficiency of their recovery gear does matter quit a bit to some guys. As their available digs may only contain very fine gold dispersed very randomly through a lot of material...they have to move a serious amount of buckets to get a small amount of glacial gold. A pan would never work for those guys. Can't knock guys for wanting to be able to run more bucket if thats what they have to do. Especially for "small" amounts...Yay for Gold Fever...and sluice boxes and every different pan there is...and blue bowls....spiral pans.. dredges ...trommels...drywashers....all have their place, right next to a five gallon bucket...if you are fortunate enough to have paid for these glorious man made tools with sweat and blood and a shovel good for you if you have more buckets to go, check out the sluicing thread that's why its therelots of good advice on gear and fine tuning

P.S. I feel the urge to go to the Garage

 

[MadMarshall]

... Points well taken. Yesterday before I posted I happened to watch 2 vids posted. I could not find any usefull information in the vids for a prospector trying to make wage. I post with the assumption that readers are trying to find gold in payable sources and that they actually would like to prospect for a living. I know no other way to keep this way of life alive..(Small scale mining).. I put no value in petitions.I definitely have no faith in our government.. So I figure the next best thing is to share how I know to make money at gold. Hopefully others can do the same. Now the internet can be a invaluable source for information but on the other hand. With the lack of actual credibility one must have to make a contribution to the internet all kinds of worthless crap is available in the disguise of Advice. Like I said my advice is geared towards people who believe small scale mining is job they want to do.Those in truth are the people that matter. The people who do this for fun I hope to encourage to make the switch. I do this by sharing what I know worked for me.. And I from experience know how much bullcrap seeps in from the recreational world of prospecting. All to often I see people with a garage full of equipment collecting dust.. Or they using a high banker digging for 8 hours and getting less then a gram. Goes to show the actual lack of prospecting knowledge. Their is a difference of the gold fever you talk about an actual GOLD FEVER.. GOLD FEVER IS NEVER BEING SASTIFIED. A person who collects dust day after day doesn't have gold fever they just like finding gold for fun. True gold fever you will never be happy with the gold you find becouse it will never meet your exspectations!!! As for where I live it aint by accident I live in gold country if I wanted to be a an oceanographer I would live next to the ocean!!!

 

[Jeff95531]

MM
I was a very excited newbie when I joined this forum early this year. Gold could be found minutes from my house! I got my Garrett pan kit and went to work. What did I learn? The Smith River is not even close to the American River in gold size and amount. And even though I found places that do produce 20 small pieces in a heaping shovel full, a sluice is the only way I can recover gold that is more in line with my early expectations. A bar set by you, me and many others here. Believe me, if I was where you are, you couldn't keep me and my pans away.
BTW, I hope to get that long and expensive project completed today.

 

[goldenIrishman]

There have been several valid points brought up in this thread and I'm not going to rehash those. What I feel it all boils down to is what you are comfortable with using for equipment in your given area. Out here there's lots of gold. Unfortunately there is little to no water! We either have to bring our own to the site or bring the site to the water by taking materials home with us. Now to my mind, it's much easier to bring the water to the site and set up a re-circ system than to bring tons of materials home to run. Wet processing has always been more effective than dry and in a lot of areas around here dry processing isn't an option due to the high clay content of the materials in the gold bearing layers. Water is needed to break down the clay so the gold within it is released for recovery. Using only a pan and hauling a few gallons of water out for it would be a total waste of my time. But bring 40 gallons of water and my re-circ system out there and I can be moving materials in mass all day long. I'm still digging and classifying as you'd have to do for panning, but on a much larger scale. This of course means more CHANCES for finding gold.

As to what really matters... That is something that each of us has to determine for ourselves. Someone that is doing this as a hobby is going to have a much different mindset than someone doing it to make a living. The important part of it is that we try to make our time out in the field ENJOYABLE be it as a hobby or job. If ya can't have at least a little fun at your job then you're in the wrong field.

 

[MadMarshall]

Goldenirishmen I see what your saying. But I would argue the scale of mining is of little importance compared to the gold actually found. I used to be of the mind more dirt more gold but that was before I actually learned what prospecting was.. And yes more material more gold this holds true even for me..I just am more picky on which dirt I spend my time with. Finding gold is hella easy. Actual prospecting is hard! And finding actual information on actually finding gold in payable sources even harder.. Exspeacially when so many people are just in it for fun.. Actual people who want to make a living at it are mislead by the information presented by allot of these so called instructional videos.. Not only in most cases is the person giving the advice does not rely on prospecting or mining as a main source of income but all to often they are the manufactuars of something not really ever showing how to actually find gold but instead on how to recover it and be thank full to get every halfpenny or showing all this gold with out explaining the cost to get the gold and how much is actual profit. Now all my life I have poor men tell me get rich scemes I bet so have you guys... Ever wonder why they weren't rich? Ever met the miner who knew where their was allot of gold but for some reason never went to get it? For me what matters is that small scale mining is not to be mixed with recreation. And since their is a big industry built around recreational prospecting and big clubs that have undermined small scale mining and these are the most common people giving advice.. Most advice is very general and will almost always make reference to some product or service they offer. All equipment does is help a prospector exploit a payable source.. That is it.. So as I say let the gold dictate the equipment! Not the other way around.. That simple.. You think all these gold shows would help people understand that how little a mining claim can be when in the hands of an ignorant self proclaimed prospector and how little the equipment mattered. Even that show ice cold gold all the resources in the world but an actual lacking of prospecting skills lead to failure. For me I figure if I can help show people a way to prospect in a cheap way by doing my best to show what I know.. It is my hope to make more men get better at profiting at gold!! In hopes that they will one day be successful prospector/miners. And I know for a fact this can't be done if I am recommending equipment and wasting time on the so called science of the sluice box. I found my time better spent looking and learning to find payable gold and exploiting then in the quickest fashion I could. Now allot of people will tell you that their are no payable sources to be exploited by a small scale miner and the old timers got it all. They couldn't be further from the truth!! Me if I wanted to be a race car driver I would seek tips and advice from a race car driver not his mechanic!!! I believe small scale mining is an actual profession.. Not a sport!!

 

[kuger]

I have mined my entire life and the most valuable lesson I was ever taught was to never get the Fever.......never have,but have seen many that have....the Fever makes people do stupid chit,including forsake all including friendships.....

...as far as equipt.it all comes back to the pan,the more ground worked,the more the return.......and the ground dictates what equipt you need to succeed......nobody is making a living with just a pan....including you.

 

[goldenIrishman]

MM I THINK I see what you're getting at here and I agree that there are zip, zero and nada for videos or DVDs out there that can really TEACH you how to do proper PROSPECTING. The only things that can teach you that are time, research and experience.

Time: We all have to put our time in and pay our dues to learn how to do anything. NO ONE is born knowing everything. Some pick things up easy while other struggle to learn the same things.

Research: Thanks to the internet, this part has gotten a lot easier than in the old days. There's a lot of good materials available on-line. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of garbage out there as well. Here the trick is to learn how to tell one from the other. I learned early on that the best thing I could learn in school was research skills. I may not remember everything they TRIED to teach me in school, but I sure know how to look things up when I need info on something.

Experience: This is going to have a lot of variables as well. You may be a great prospector in say the Mother Lode Country but if you've never done work in the desert then you may be barely able to find a flake because prospecting is a different animal out here. I'm sure you understand my point here. Any one that wants to learn how to do this for ANY reason should seek out someone that has put in their time, done their research and has experience in the type of prospecting they want to do.

Are there still areas with gold that are profitable for the small scale miner? You bet your sweet bippy there are! But people are not going to find them by sitting at home watching clowns like Todd Hoffman or the Gold Diggers on the TV. I wouldn't ask anyone on any of those shows anything except for maybe directions to the nearest bathroom.

In the end, the equipment is nothing more than a secondary tool no matter what type it is or where it's being used. A real prospectors most important tool is located between his ears! That tool gets more powerful the longer you use it.

On a side note I think it's kind of a shame you're all the way up in Placer County and I'm living on the doorstep of Mexico. I think we could have some great discussions over a few bottles of suds.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Real prospecting is a well developed science. It's not a secret either. The problem with the "recreational" prospecting industry is they leave no path from a hobby to actual professional prospecting. This isn't surprising since real prospecting demands a tough education in geology, mineralogy, physics, law, research and analysis as well as traveling miles of rough country sampling, mapping and keeping records. There's not much room in there for profiting off blow moulded plastics, bent aluminum or club claims.

There are several excellent University Masters degree programs available in mining, including prospecting. The United States has some of the best mining schools in the world. Not surprising since we have consistently been in the top three mining countries on earth for well over 150 years. Even today the US is the third largest miner of gold in the world.

Pay the money and do the time and work on learning those skills and you will have the basics to get you started in prospecting. Put in the time and work and be smart enough to listen to those who know more than you and you might just be successful. If you don't have the money or time for school educate yourself. The resources are available. No need to keep thinking prospecting is an arcane art when these schools of mining offer free access to their library and resources to those willing to do the study and research.

School is not the only path for the professional prospector but it's generally the faster path to begin, as I'm sure those who have learned the hard way can tell you. It is just a beginning but a good foundation in mining science will take you further and faster to your first real mineral discovery and give you the skills to define the deposit and know how to mine it. You will also learn that prospecting is an opportunist profession. It isn't all about gold out there, you've probably walked right over other mineable mineral deposits that are worth more than any gold you will ever get with your sluice or dredge.

Back to the hobby prospector... One of the problems with starting out as a hobbyist is that the hobby equipment manufacturers aren't going to tell you that you don't need all that equipment to prospect. Prospecting requires knowledge, strength and stamina. Beyond that your prospecting kit will be under 20 pounds and can for the most part be acquired used on eBay for under $100. Buying a highbanker, drywasher, dredge, blue bowl, spiral wheel and buckets before you find your first speck of gold suits the hobby manufacturers and "prospecting" clubs just fine. They aren't going to tell you that none of that is needed for prospecting and none of it will do you much good when you do finally find a real gold deposit.

Even more hidden is the fact that most hobby equipment just isn't designed to stand up to real mining. If you can't drop a 60 pound rock from six foot on your "mining" equipment and keep mining without a worry you aren't working with real mining equipment. It's a simple fact that mining is a rough business and moving rock is dangerous and destructive work. If your equipment isn't up to the task and well maintained you won't be mining long enough to break even much less make a profit.

I have no problems with hobbyist "miners". I think it's a great hobby that has a lot of potential to educate and enlighten people to the real value of metals and mineral mining. It's good exercise and to my mind much more fun than bowling or watching football or Gold Rush. Prospecting clubs have their place and when well run can contribute quite a bit to the lives of their members. As with any club it's in good part what you put into it.

Honestly it bothers me to see folks find a bit of gold and set about digging for hours or days before defining where the deposit is, what the best way to process it is or what the values are. Digging and processing because there is some gold where you sampled is not prospecting, it's wishful thinking and hopeful dreaming. It's much easier and way more profitable to keep sampling after you find gold and define just where the paystreak is in depth, position and quality. You don't really need to dig a big hole to find out if you are near a good deposit - despite the amateur entertainment provided by the cable TV gold shows.

A lot of times you will discover that small deposits suited perfectly for the small miner are lurking in the middle of ground that others have dug for a gram or two. Find a good deposit before moving material and you will move from the hobbyist to real prospecting. At the end of the day you will have more gold with less work and the satisfaction of knowing that you were successful when so many others weren't. And with each deposit discovered you will gain in precious knowledge and experience.

I think this is what Mad Marshall is trying to convey to you. Small miners in this country have a wealth of opportunity. Small rich deposits abound that are too small for mining companies to bother with but can be hugely profitable for the knowledgeable, hardworking small prospector/miner. Often these are overlooked by other miners too eager to prove that "the more dirt they move the more gold they get". While that theory is true as far as it goes digging in mediocre ground when you might be right next to a rich deposit is a common scenario for the uneducated prospector. Just as common is the practice of digging ground that produces little gold in the hopes of "striking it rich". In my experience digging ground that is unproductive when you could be spending your time and energy looking for a paying deposit is the reason so few hobbyists ever successfully transition to successful full time prospectors. Complaints about club claims being overworked and the rush to dig a claim when someone actually gets a nugget or a good days take are symptoms of the lack of knowledge among hobbyists about the very nature and value of good prospecting.

As you may have noticed this subject is close to my heart. My wife and I hobby mine as well as working with real mining companies - both large and small. We deal with geologists, mining engineers, Schools of Mining and small miners as well as hobbyists and we see that the transitions from one to the other could be almost seamless. Trying to encourage the hobbyist by providing knowledge, good locations and professional quality tools is just a small part of our full time careers but if we could just get this one concept across about the value of good prospecting skills leading to good mining results I would feel a good part of our goals will have been reached.

I hope to soon write a few articles about prospecting methods for the small miner and give you some real world examples. Thats probably going to take awhile. I've got to map a few hundred claims in the next weeks, investigate an old mill site, meet with a couple of forum members to discuss their claim and show them how to define and mine a good deposit, then meet with a Canadian Mining company about mapping their Nevada properties. Some of that actually makes me money and, just like you, I have to make a living. Even so I have put a high priority on sharing some proven prospecting techniques with you - after I earn a paycheck.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well said Clay! For those of you that don't know Clay trust me when I say he knows what he's talking about. He may not post much on here (Yet) but everything he's posted it to the point and well written. He can make a complex subject very easy for anyone to understand. Plus he's a hella nice guy.

 

[matthews1026]

Nice read Clay! Learn so much from this site. Thanks to all.

 

[fowledup]

MM, have you given any thought to hands on teaching? It's obvious you've got a natural gift for seeing and understanding golds path. There are all kinds of folks out there who would line up for a day trip to learn from someone who knows what there doing and can actually show them how to find it on their own. Those idiotic shows are your best advertisement. There are all kinds of fishing, hunting, and tour guides, why not a gold guide. "Do something you love and you'll never work a day in your life"

 

[goldenIrishman]

Fowled.... Stop reading my mind! I think that would be a great thing for Marshal to get into. I know they have them here in AZ for detecting, so why not in the Mother Lode area?

 

[matthews1026]

If MM decided to do that, I'd be one of the first ones to sign up. Man seems to have a ton of knowledge, you can never have enough knowledge, no matter how experienced you are.

 

[KevinInColorado]

MM, if you do decide to take this suggestion and run with it, I have a close friend who does guided educational prospecting here in CO. I am quite sure he would be happy to coach you on how to get a gold adventuring business going. PM me if you want to talk with him and I'll sort it out.

 

[kuger]

Can a person do this on Public Land,without a claim?

 

[KevinInColorado]

As you would guess, it depends on the status of the land and may be affected by state regulations. Here in CO that means my friend can't go to some places you or I could go on our own since they are city land with a regulation that says "no commercial activity". He also can't provide transportation so participants have to drive themselves. Additionally my friend does have access to several federal Mining Claims and private land in the CO mountains. ...thus my offer to connect my friend with him to share tips on how to approach this.

 

[Goldwasher]

someone local advertises on craigslist constantly... wants like 60 bucks a trip

 

[Jeff95531]

Wow Clay. That was wonderfully written and very educational. Best part for me was just because you found some gold doesn't mean you found THE gold. My age and condition may keep me from that source but I will begin mining when I know that. And Jeff, so true. The best equipment is between your ears. Work smarter, not harder.
Thanks to all for sharing your thoughts!