what spaniards?

[pippinwhitepaws]

ok, i have spent my life listening to Spanish treasure stories...
the thing is...what spanish? if half the treasure tales people come up with were true, it would have taken every spaniard in 375 years of spanish rule to carve the rocks and hide the loot.

as an example, at the time of U.S. invasion and seizure of northern mexico, perhaps 20,000 people of European decent occupied the area: this includes calif and tejas...

so who did all the labor?
why on earth would anyone take a chisel and hammer to solid rock when the stories have apache chasing them....talk about give away your position....and loosing time to escape?

oh yes, geronimo is just around the canyon with his buddies, let me repel down this cliff and carve cryptic signs...

 

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[MesaBuddy]

Good question Pipin ,
I've been asking the same question for years , surely there is some documentation somewhere , along with the "Codebook" some place
MB

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

 

[MesaBuddy]

You got me

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the spirits of the net?

 

[MesaBuddy]

the spirits of the net?

Seems no one answered a simple question perhaps Pip

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

i thought i went snow blind there for a moment...whew.
ok, let us start over...
how many known Spanish expeditions were there into El Norte? could any of these legal efforts resulted in monumental stone carvings?

 

[kanabite]

hey mesa? where did all these post go that were here? spirits of the net ? what the heck is going on?

 

[Old Dog]

Wow.

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

someone disapproved the direction the thread was taking.

i realize this is a crummy photo, but there is this huge cross up on this hillside...it does not look like a natural occurance, the lines are straight and strong...when looking up at it you feel like you are on your knees before an altar....

 

[kanabite]

someone disapproved the direction the thread was taking.

i realize this is a crummy photo, but there is this huge cross up on this hillside...it does not look like a natural occurance, the lines are straight and strong...when looking up at it you feel like you are on your knees before an altar....

hmmm so why do all crosses have to be spanish? that looks like over home to me ...pip, have you been hunting on the pansaguant

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

this cross is in verde valley...no locals know a thing about it..and some of my friends families came in with crook...
i am not saying it is spanish, just most people miss it...then when i tell them where to look. and they go take a peek, they all come back with "who did that?"

 

[rangler]

Re: what spaniards? These Spaniards!

These Spaniards.....
From about 1500 give or take a few decades the Jesuits and the Spanish in general where in charge of the New World and of course New Spain. This control lasted well in to the late 1700's there is appox 250 years!! Wave after wave , Expedition after expedition came to the new world to explore, mine, store and ship Gold and Silver and precious Jewels!. Two centuries and the entire Western Hemisphere was climbed over like ant at a sugar mound!

With the publication of ReDeMetalica as the guide book, the graduate mining engineers from the the University of Salamanca headed contracted expeditions to the New World to find riches for the noblemen ( Conquistadors) and the Jesuits and the Pope. The Spanish Soldiers were the security force, and part of the labor force, until Native American could be captured and enslaved to work the Hardrock Mines and the Placer Diggings.

The Secular Masons were hired to do the stone masonry and monumenting.Not to be confused with the Ritual Masons who attend meetings and take oaths, these were the actual stone cutters who worked with their hands and their tools.

The King of Spain micromanaged the entire operations from start to finish. Nothing was left to chance. The saying " The pain of Spain" was the common death threat, that backed up the breaking every rule! The King of Spain collected a 20% tax from everyone who had a contract, actual or inferred to mine in the New World, His own tax collectors issued these stamps upon the actual goods, for them to be legal for transport across the Kings Highways or Trails.
All the goods that were mined and transported where taxed , Assayed, the 20% taken and the stamps hammered into the bars themselves. If a need arose to have to wait for safer transport conditions, then monuments were built to show the hidden vaults, when the goods were stored. The Kings Recovery Crew were tasked with the retrieval of these goods.

To keep the Treasure Signs, consistent, the Kings men had the same solutions as the Masons who cut the signs on stone, the idea that signs are unreadable only by the person who cut the signs is of course ridiculous - any one caught making up their own signs would have be executed by the Spanish Army in a heartbeat!

These signs are not easily broken, and they usually defeat the amateur code breaker or the casual attempt to steal these goodies!. It takes a Lifetime of study, research, and an tremendous amount of dedication and effort! This code took so long to break that back in the day , that the Kings men would have arrived and recovered the treasure before you recognized what an Alpha Monument even was, let alone be able to find the Omega and then the final Geometric layout.

What Spaniards? The Tsunami of Spaniards! The 2.5 Centuries of Expeditions! The Millions of Dollars and Tons of Gold and Silver Shipped in Galleons across the Atlantic! The Billions in Emeralds and jewels alone* - All Evidenced by the Hundreds of Spanish Galleons the still lay on the bottom of the Ocean!

What Spaniards? The ones who Ruled the World, The ones who controlled the Sea!, The ones who did battle with the rest of Europe at one time or another. The ones who Performed the Terroristic Act of the Inquisition for a couple of Hundred Years!
What Spaniards, the ones who operated the First Universities in the Old World!
What Spaniards, the ones who employed the Secular Jesuits as Mining Engineers in the New World as early as the 1500's, The one who hired Tin Miners from Wales and Germany in the Mid 1500's and imported them to Mexico as Gold and Silver Miners!

The ones who slogan was GOLD - GLORY & GOD ! <-- IN That order!
Thats who!

The ones who said that Gold was a disease of the Heart and the only cure was more Gold!
Thats who!

I rest my case,
let the nitpicking, the nay saying and automatic negative responders begin....

auferiously
rangler

H8
"With their silver and gold they make idols for themselves to their own destruction".






*present day values

 

[MesaBuddy]

Re: what spaniards? These Spaniards!

These Spaniards.....
From about 1500 give or take a few decades the Jesuits and the Spanish in general where in charge of the New World and of course New Spain. This control lasted well in to the late 1700's there is appox 250 years!! Wave after wave , Expedition after expedition came to the new world to explore, mine, store and ship Gold and Silver and precious Jewels!. Two centuries and the entire Western Hemisphere was climbed over like ant at a sugar mound!

With the publication of ReDeMetalica as the guide book, the graduate mining engineers from the the University of Salamanca headed contracted expeditions to the New World to find riches for the noblemen ( Conquistadors) and the Jesuits and the Pope. The Spanish Soldiers were the security force, and part of the labor force, until Native American could be captured and enslaved to work the Hardrock Mines and the Placer Diggings.

The Secular Masons were hired to do the stone masonry and monumenting.Not to be confused with the Ritual Masons who attend meetings and take oaths, these were the actual stone cutters who worked with their hands and their tools.

The King of Spain micromanaged the entire operations from start to finish. Nothing was left to chance. The saying " The pain of Spain" was the common death threat, that backed up the breaking every rule! The King of Spain collected a 20% tax from everyone who had a contract, actual or inferred to mine in the New World, His own tax collectors issued these stamps upon the actual goods, for them to be legal for transport across the Kings Highways or Trails.
All the goods that were mined and transported where taxed , Assayed, the 20% taken and the stamps hammered into the bars themselves. If a need arose to have to wait for safer transport conditions, then monuments were built to show the hidden vaults, when the goods were stored. The Kings Recovery Crew were tasked with the retrieval of these goods.

To keep the Treasure Signs, consistent, the Kings men had the same solutions as the Masons who cut the signs on stone, the idea that signs are unreadable only by the person who cut the signs is of course ridiculous - any one caught making up their own signs would have be executed by the Spanish Army in a heartbeat!

These signs are not easily broken, and they usually defeat the amateur code breaker or the casual attempt to steal these goodies!. It takes a Lifetime of study, research, and an tremendous amount of dedication and effort! This code took so long to break that back in the day , that the Kings men would have arrived and recovered the treasure before you recognized what an Alpha Monument even was, let alone be able to find the Omega and then the final Geometric layout.

What Spaniards? The Tsunami of Spaniards! The 2.5 Centuries of Expeditions! The Millions of Dollars and Tons of Gold and Silver Shipped in Galleons across the Atlantic! The Billions in Emeralds and jewels alone* - All Evidenced by the Hundreds of Spanish Galleons the still lay on the bottom of the Ocean!

What Spaniards? The ones who Ruled the World, The ones who controlled the Sea!, The ones who did battle with the rest of Europe at one time or another. The ones who Performed the Terroristic Act of the Inquisition for a couple of Hundred Years!
What Spaniards, the ones who operated the First Universities in the Old World!
What Spaniards, the ones who employed the Secular Jesuits as Mining Engineers in the New World as early as the 1500's, The one who hired Tin Miners from Wales and Germany in the Mid 1500's and imported them to Mexico as Gold and Silver Miners!

The ones who slogan was GOLD - GLORY & GOD ! <-- IN That order!
Thats who!

The ones who said that Gold was a disease of the Heart and the only cure was more Gold!
Thats who!

I rest my case,
let the nitpicking, the nay saying and automatic negative responders begin....

auferiously
rangler

H8
"With their silver and gold they make idols for themselves to their own destruction".






*present day values

Carefull Brangler , yer gonna paint yerself into a corner again

 

[rangler]

Carefull rangler , yer gonna paint yerself into a corner again

Ok mesa muddy
If got some mud - sling it..
or else mosey on down the trail,
and stay downwind with the
crap will ya?
rangler
where is your data? where are your posts trying
to help folks work out some of the solutions?



"you know you can give a monkey a sledge hammer and he can knock down a house
but you can't give them framing hammers because they can't build ANYTHING!"

(translation for you MM) ...easy to be negative and tear something down
, much much harder to be positive and build something

 

[MesaBuddy]

Well now Spangler ,
I got better things to do than to waste words with a feller of your high standing , seems us peons should not dare step on your robe
Surely you of all people should have a census available for all of the hundreds of thousands people that came here from the 1500's - 1800's , along with the Jesuit codebook eh ?

where are your posts trying
to help folks work out some of the solutions?

I tend to communicate with folks in private concerning solutions , tooting my own horn leaves a terrible taste in my mouth , braggarts are as braggarts do my friend
Please continue on , it is amusing to read your post's , better than prime time
I won't waste any more of my time dealing with the likes of you , and out of respect for the folks here at TNet , I'll bid ado
Have a good one Spangler
Nice pic Pipin

 

[kanabite]

Carefull rangler , yer gonna paint yerself into a corner again

Ok mesa muddy
If got some mud - sling it..
or else mosey on down the trail,
and stay downwind with the
crap will ya?
rangler
where is your data? where are your posts trying
to help folks work out some of the solutions? rangler listen to me for a second , i happen to know where mesa's posts are and he is trying to help folks . i also happen to know where vast amounts of data are . collected by many , and you are missing the point of the question. it is about the monuments , the trails , and the booty and who built them . if you were not so opinionated , suffering from such extreme confirmation bias . if you would stop with the i know everything about Jesuits history , when in reality none of us do. good lord if you would just listen to what some of theses people who do know , are saying . it would help you so much .nobody is saying the Spanish were not here finding treasure , they are not even saying that no treasure was hidden or lost. no one is saying that there are no markers made by the spaniard or your jesuits . but what those who know are trying to say is that there is a high degree of probability that the Spanish were little more than plagiarists and thieves... reminds me of this not so ethical treasure hunter i knew once,,, don't fish. if you want to know something that you do not ,ask politely and they might answer. but you have to be sincere . if you are truly comfortable with your opinions as being gospel in your own mind , you will not be leaving any room for growth. and that is sad.

 

[rangler]

Kana
thanks for the input, but i have danced with mesa before and it wasted a lot of time
and it lead to him melting down - I am not going to waste that kind of effort again.
It distrubs the board and that's why I cut him so short.

If we are to get on the same path, then there has to be respect for each other, and all
he has done every time is attack and cast dispersions, no one has to take that. I for one will
not. I don't have too.

I am here to help all I can, I dont know it all, but I have learned a lot, but if you think that I come
across that way then you are feeling the heat and ignoring the light! My intent is to shed
some light. Mesa and others always seem to want that light put out! So they get my heat!

If by your saying "What Spanish" you mean they were not here and did nothing..I had to disagree
and there is a lot of disinformation put out on this site and a lot of stifling the truth - it does
make a serious hunter a little short on the patience and politeness.

If I missed the finer point, so be it, your gentle reminder have brought me up to speed!
It is just that it felt like it was falling into the general category of disinformation.

I have heard and I have said this before on other threads ,that a pretty good theory was
advanced on how the Jesuits found these monuments just like they were and studied them and
broke the code and following the solutions to the goods and transported the goods to the King
and the rest to the Pope.
Rog has filled in some of those blanks for me, even expounding how
THIS is Ophir and the PHI is coded in to the word ophir, leaving the word Or which I found out
is the root word in Latin for "ore" and that it meant "something to pick up" Makes sence on many
levels, and the store house of Mount Victorio at the White Sands missile range being from Biblical
times. If this is what was being alluded to fine, but I didnt quite get that from the tenor or the tone
of the posts, I can see the theory pretty clearly and it makes some logical sense, but to pussyfoot
around with it is not my style.

Some of the fine points that I have seem to be with the code itself, the highly intelligent formatting of
the code basing it on Natural Science and the attributes of those critters them selves, and the use of
Geometry and Divine Mathematics , to me, it was the Jesuits who were exactly trained in these subjects
much more than any public group during that time period in history. Including any Ancients , that I know
about so far, if you have any data that can shed light on this obscure parts of the dim past, please share
that posthaste!. But so far this thread has revealed nothing like that.

To think the the Phoenicians or some other group had this level and body of knowledge at that time
period, if true shows the huge gaps in understanding and absence of recorded history. Be that as it may
we know that not everything is documented to modern academic standards, that is undeniably true.

We do know that through testing of Copper found in Ancient Rome that it in fact came from Michigan Upper
Peninsula, the only people capiable at the time, with excellent shipbuilding and sailing skills where the merchant class
of sailors and explorers called the Phoneticians . The fact that they knew the process of mining and smelting and transoceanic delivery
of this valuable metal at the time of the Roman Empire, speaks volumes in this light!

I know that he Jesuits used some Phoenician Letter and words as part of their code as well as Archaic Hebrew
but to see it as though the Jesuits learned all this from the inventors of this code - expands the envelope of
understanding what group of ancients actually made those trails, mined that gold, built those monument and
carried on the total exploration of the New World.

At best there must be a mix of the old and the new, In my own journeys - I have identified what I called "early period"
monuments, which were big and bold and in your face from a long long away. I mis-identified these as when the King and
the Jesuits were still in good graces and they wanted the King to find the 20% tax caches and Mines! Then the more subtle monuments where the coding was more precise, more shadows signs were used the whole look to the monuments were smaller easier to hide in plain site. I thought that these were the monuments from when the relationship with the King was getting more strained that eventually led to the Expulsion of June 1767.

In retrospect, these early monuments were apparently the work of the Phoenicians or an unidentified similar group of contemporaries operating in this time period. Once the Jesuits came here and with their understanding of the Natural Sciences and Mathematics, etc, they could - after some time - break this early code. Then by opening new mines as well as the old ones - rediscovered they kept- the same codes but made them somewhat more subtle and smaller physically.

If indeed this is the Land of Ophir - and it makes sense on many levels - then the Code book may have been lost forever
but it shows that the code can be broken by intelligent understanding and higher education and a commitment to what ever time it takes to get the job done!.

Just to make sure that I "paint my self in to another corner" which really means going out on a limb or thinking out side the box - and daring to tweak the nose of convention which I am wont to do..let say that old Roger Snow is the Man when it comes to having a personal understanding of not only this history but having fate throw him under the cover story bus by the the powers that be. He knows the direct lineage from the Knights Templar but we have to ask him if there is a connection between the Phoenicians and the Templars, are the Jesuits really the tertiary discoverers with the Templars having broken this code before them, is this the correct time line?. As with any mystery and a little bit of truth discovered or implied, it asks more questions that it answers.

I pitch the ball back to you Kana, and ask if you can shed any light on this , who is the original carvers of these boulders and monuments? Where the Phoenicians the precursors to the Templar's and then the Jesuits? Then us as the fouth?

Hopefully you will find this post closer to the subject of the thread and a might less confrontational at least to all except the disinformationalists !

i rest my case
auferiously
rangler







P1 ............the complacency of fools will destroy them;

 

[MesaBuddy]

Oh Rangler ,
I am so very put off , you didn't even take me up on my lunch offer , seems a man of your status in society could do a lil lunch with me and perhaps shut me down in person

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

agreed mb.
hey, i went down to florence the other day....where did all those people come from?
no wonder people shoot at each other down there.
stopped in a store and asked the guy how many people come in and ask 'what the heck happened here.'..he looked all deer in the headlights at me and said, "alot".
he had been in arizona for two years and hadn't a clue what everyone was asking...sheesh.
i just love that monstrosity that has been built at the old mine workings in goldfield...actually had people argue with me and say "those are the original buildings to the mine..."?

whew.