Willie L Douthit

[Quinoa]

I hope Willie rests in peace. But he can't help you anymore, So maybe I will in his place.

Sdfcia, You mentioned the mark on top of your corner post rock was done in lichen so you think it's natural. I'll have to say no, because many markers are done in lichen . Here's a skull done in lichen and cracklines, circled, that has 2 sets of eyes. The eye set looking up and to the left and most readily visible looks at a mine. I showed some of the markers to the mine as well as the backfilled shaft and trench right up to it. It has ore tailings in the trench still, the canyon burnt out recently which was full of poison ivy and exposed it. I posted it a couple pages back in Prospector Mikels thread in Treasure marks/signs, trying to indicate how some of the markers can work to find the mines.
(http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...s-left-i-d-mine-spanish-french-jesuit-67.html)
(http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/t...s-left-i-d-mine-spanish-french-jesuit-66.html).

The second eye set is looking down and to left (and harder to visualize) and looks right at a probable cache spot I didn't show any photos of. The skull is on a pyramid shaped rock (pyramid shaped as seen from the trail from a distance) right on the side of the trail you see from a further away spot as you walk along it. I'm standing on the trail as I photo-ed the current picture I'm showing close up. It's easy to see from right there, and was easy to see the skull/face in the field from there.

Also from a distance, from another marker which pointed exactly at the mine up the hill that I showed in Mikel's thread, this rock had the appearance of a head profile looking up towards the mine. But too many pictures and angles to show or explain in one post, you'll have to go back thru Mikel's thread and figure it out it yourself.

Who would have did all this mis-mash garbage? It's all illusion-like and meant to mess with your head. You can't say natural anymore because I already showed the mine it looks right at on Mikel's thread. Mind you , I found that backfilled mine in less an hour following the markers, and I can do it again and again quite often anywhere, and already have. Same type markers and imagery again and again. Many done with lichen. There are no coincidences in mines and treasures, they just wanted you to question yourself so they could hide it all in plain sight.

 

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[UncleMatt]

Beware pareidolia

 

[sdcfia]

I've been told before that the growth of lichen can be manipulated. Even if true, I don't see the purpose of its use in lieu of better, more permanent markers.

I'm not a big proponent of pareidolia-based "treasure clues", especially those designed to "mess with your head". I prefer obviously manmade messages that do not require a vivid imagination to see - a characteristic missing in many people. It's my opinion that the idea is to provide unmistakeable things that are readily recognized by searchers who know what they're looking for.

 

[Quinoa]

The pareidolia excuse is a kind of a cop out and way over stated . Yes pareidolia exists and some people see something in everything. But when you are on these sites, the stuff is there, and done that way. They didn't make carvings that look like perfect graveyard headstone engravings. They used natural looking stuff and crudely modified it to hide the markers in plain site. That was an absolute proof post, as I said before and I used it to help find the mine. The lichen stuff is often on permanent markers such as that one was. That's a huge rock , it isn't going anywhere, it's about 5 foot tall.
So again, I ask who would do this kind of kooky stuff. I suppose it's the only way to really hide stuff in plain site, make it look natural at a glance.

 

[nmth]

Ah, yes, back to Willie and reality. Let's see ... shall we talk about vaults of gold bars in the Caballos or flying saucers in the CA desert? Your choice.

Well, that is the title of the thread.

Some of us are not here to be pedantic, sarcastic, or play "gotcha".

Some of us are interested in drilling down on the Vic peak saga, and have information to provide, and an interest in learning more.

That's why I posted what I could on the 3NTiro 1860 rock per the request of the OP.

Sorry if I contributed in any way to the weird pissing contest that now seems to be spiraling out of control.

 

[Ditlihi]

Well, that is the title of the thread.

Some of us are not here to be pedantic, sarcastic, or play "gotcha".

Some of us are interested in drilling down on the Vic peak saga, and have information to provide, and an interest in learning more.

That's why I posted what I could on the 3NTiro 1860 rock per the request of the OP.

Sorry if I contributed in any way to the weird pissing contest that now seems to be spiraling out of control.

I'm interested in much the same, Nmth, and am pretty useless in a pissing contest. I don't really believe that has been the case here either, with the exception of an overzealous fan who in their boisterous enthusiasm for one-upmanship managed to dribble on their shoe.

Whatever happened to Garry? His research was interesting and I was looking forward to more of his input, but he seems to have abandoned the thread.

 

[sdcfia]

Well, that is the title of the thread.

Some of us are not here to be pedantic, sarcastic, or play "gotcha".

Some of us are interested in drilling down on the Vic peak saga, and have information to provide, and an interest in learning more.

That's why I posted what I could on the 3NTiro 1860 rock per the request of the OP.

Sorry if I contributed in any way to the weird pissing contest that now seems to be spiraling out of control.

Yes, let's talk about the Caballos.

I've had dealings with quite a rogue's gallery of scammers who've worked the Caballo hopefuls over the decades, heard some absolutely whopper stories by tellers keeping a straight face, met a number of glaze-eyed true believers, been told some absolutely hilarious anecdotes, seen bullet holes in guys' trucks who were driving around in there, been offered all kinds of partnerships to get rich quick, spoken with a guy who knew Noss pretty well when they were both in Clovis (not a good character reference), and driven by and around the range numerous times.

However, I've never once been in those hills. Why? With one exception, I've never seen evidence of a good reason to. The one exception was a rock-solid testimony by a rock-solid acquaintance who chose not to pursue what he knew was pinpoint-quality evidence, based on a family secret. Do I believe that there is at least one large gold cache in the Caballos? Yes, I do - at least one - but with the exception of the fellow mentioned above, it's my opinion that all that we think that we "know" about the place is disinformation of one sort or another.

One Caballo speculation that pre-dates the Willie-Doc crowd is that Pancho Villa and his associates had something to do with a gold stash in the Caballos. One version is that the stash came from Mexico to be hidden in the US. Another guy claimed that "Poncho had a map," and the gold went from the US into Mexico. Yet another rumor has the raid on Columbus NM occurring as retribution against one of its inhabitants over some sort of back-stabbing over a bunch of gold. Not enough info to do much with, of course, but the mysterious Emil Holmdahl keeps popping up in these stories, and Emil was a force to be reckoned with.

That all said, a recent acquaintance showed me two things: 1) an incredible new geotech device that is still pretty much a prototype, complete with a convincing demonstration of its subsurface detection capabilities; and 2) scan results and photos of a site in the Caballos where he is helping a searcher. As always, the proof would be in the pudding.

 

[UncleMatt]

The pareidolia excuse is a kind of a cop out and way over stated . Yes pareidolia exists and some people see something in everything. But when you are on these sites, the stuff is there, and done that way. They didn't make carvings that look like perfect graveyard headstone engravings. They used natural looking stuff and crudely modified it to hide the markers in plain site. That was an absolute proof post, as I said before and I used it to help find the mine. The lichen stuff is often on permanent markers such as that one was. That's a huge rock , it isn't going anywhere, it's about 5 foot tall.
So again, I ask who would do this kind of kooky stuff. I suppose it's the only way to really hide stuff in plain site, make it look natural at a glance.

But you are operating from assumption when you make those claims. When you perceive objects in nature as man made, with the idea they lead to treasure, that only leads down a rabbit hole.

 

[UncleMatt]

I like pudding!

 

[Ditlihi]

I'm guessing that asking to please lift the seat is pointless at this juncture.

 

[Quinoa]

Yeah sorry, my fault, didn't intend to pee on thread or deviate from the main topic so much . I'll remove myself from the discussion unless I have something that relates to Willie.

 

[Ditlihi]

Yeah sorry, my fault, didn't intend to pee on thread or deviate from the main topic so much . I'll remove myself from the discussion unless I have something that relates to Willie.

No need to remove yourself, Q, and just for Clarification's sake I wasn't referring to you. Just seems some take an inordinate amount of pleasure in making an honest debate into something it's not. Perhaps they are just mistaking the exchange in their enthusiasm for contests. Regardless, I enjoy hearing both sides and have no problem with it. But I do wish Garry, or anybody for that matter, would be forthcoming with more info regarding the original topic. Anyway, no sweat, it's all good.

 

[whiskeyrat]

Yes. The first E is a 3 (backwards). Likely removed in the late 1960's/early 1970's.

It is far from the only destroyed/removed/altered/hoaxed marker. I even saw one on the east side before it was stolen by a Colorado jerk just a few years back. A little pointing miner dude pecked out on a 16"-ish loose slab of fine-grained limestone. Jerk probably missed the even more diagnostic stuff nearby, so hope he enjoys his pilfered history for all the good it will do him.

The BIG ones are still there in many places. Modern people are too lazy to have created them, they are too remote, and my local wizened buddies are even very suprised by them. Once you know they are there, you can get the right angle on them and they are back-lit. Most all can't be seen looking from the interstate, no matter the power of your telescope or binos even if you know them. Only one can be seen from GE, but only because of its high albedo. On the other hand, libido one is in some of my photos I took before I even noticed it in person. It's almost as if they were supposed to be hidden from river traffic, but obvious to those who knew where to start, and willing to break a sweat...

NO, I am not talking about carved ducks or witches or shadow faces. Though, there are a few interestingly-huge patinations that are consistent eye-catchers.

Guess I need to invest in a sexant or 1/8 stick or whatever?

I have not seen the above mentioned 1860 rock in person, but I have an accurate drawing of the rock, its shape and all the letters on it.
The drawing was made by the person who now has the rock. He is not the one who removed the rock from the mountain.
The first letter is a backward capital E, with another hash mark on the upper part of the E.
The second letter is a rounded small "n" not a capital N. might be a depiction of a hill (perhaps the hill that the rock was located on which was a rounded hill)
The rest of the word is Tiro
The 1860 is below the word.
Each number in the 1860 is very special shaped number, not just the number.
for instance, the 8 is shown as a circle above a circle with 2 lines connecting them. Like a cave above a cave with a tunnel between them.
the shape of the rock is definitely a pointer as is another feature.
I know exactly where this rock sat on the mountain before being removed. But without knowing the orientation of the rock, the pointing feature is useless.
If anyone has any knowledge of the orientation of the rock, perhaps a picture of the rock on the ground, PM me and we can possibly solve this rock.
wr

 

[whiskeyrat]

And each successive letter in the word is smaller than the letter before it.
so that the entire word looks like a tapered arrowhead.

any opinions?
thanks
wr

 

[UncleMatt]

To be honest that doesn't sound like the style of how the Spanish wrote back in the day. Letters getting smaller like an arrowhead reminds me of how marketing fonts were sometimes used in the 1960's and '70's. It may be the creation of someone during that time period.

 

[whiskeyrat]

This rock was removed from the original resting position by Doc and Letha. They moved it down off the hill so no one else could use it, because it was the last clue Doc needed to find the Doc/Toni stash.
At least that is the story that was told by Letha personally to the person who now has the rock.
Letha showed him where the rock had been originally.
I suspect that the 1860 is not a date but a distance in Vara's if this rock was made by spanish.
If the rock was made by KGC, then the 1860 would more likely be a date.
I dont think its a 70s prank because the person who was there with Letha is extremely credible IMO.

cant wait to get back on the trail.
every bend in the road, every peak I climb and every sunrise and sunset in the mountains is the reward I seek.
The twisted tales of buried treasure are just icing on the cake.

 

[mann]

That rock was taken off the mountain by a Holden. It sat in front of Milton Holden’s home until he died in 60’s. A relative stole it then prob sold it to someone anyhow Rex West was the last person who had it in 90’s. I was told where it was found too. So much misinformation about the caballo mountain who knows for sure. Anyhow thanks for the post.

 

[whiskeyrat]

Yes there is a ton of disinformation. But there is also a ton of information. Its not all disinformation. I am trying to build a coalition that will trust each other and combine information, work together and try and solve something.

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Dont recall an 1860 rock, not real sure if i am understanding the thinking above.

the airplane crash in hembrillo happened one afternoon, then doc saw Marvin to the hospital
went and found Tony, buried the gold in several stashes, around Hembrillo, and the Jornado
this took all night and doc was killed the next day, so when did he and Letha move the rock?

 

[BIGSCOTT]

Yes threads do tend to wander off subject, but it wasnt completely off subject.