wisconsin in trouble

[onfire]

Stoped in at the state park today to get permit for the year and was told as of this week all detecting on state land is forbidden .and no permits will be given out. Iv been told if the state has its way all metal detecting in the entire state will be a no no, all water detecting on wisconsin water ways is also forbidden even pop tops are to stay put All this started with 2 guys with indian artifats being caught by a state arc. (rock hound) and having the ability to change the law to his way of thinking This is only the beginning God help US in the US

 

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[Lowbatts]

Wisconsin, wonderful people's republic of...

ARghhh!

Should start posting thread after thread of Indian artifacts recovered on private property up there. Then forward them to the freaks in charge of that place.

 

[rjw4law]

I wonder if this could be challenged?

 

[rjw4law]

Just a thought, not all is state, how about city and county property ? For instance city parks, right of ways from sidewalk to street etc.

 

[Lowbatts]

Just a thought, not all is state, how about city and county property ? For instance city parks, right of ways from sidewalk to street etc.

Wisconsin DNR is ALL POWERFUL and do they ever know it.

 

[G.I.B.]

Wow, sorry to hear that. Here in Florida they keep picking away at our hobby one smidgen at a time.

It's sad to see our privileges removed one by one, but its nice to see that Florida isn't the only state with greedy archaeologists dictating policy for all without the people being heard.

It is much better to let something rot in the ground forever than letting someone other than an archaeologist get it for a private collection (as long as nobody is watching)... yes?

After all, professional archaeologist's would never sell history...

http://v2.archaeological-center.com/welcome/index.shtml


But then again... we are up against this-

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article5741078.ece


Perhaps a common middle ground could be reached with some form of training and certification?

 

[deepskyal]

When metal detectors are outlawed, only outlaws will metal detect. Guess what I'll be?

There was just a city wide ban in another state and someone asked th'ers to write the mayor. Well...I did. I got a letter back, (email).....and the city was simply following the state ban and had no intention of reversing it's position.

You can challenge til you're blue in the face and it won't do any good. There just isn't enough organization with Md'ers to stop this trend.

It's the idiots that do steal historic stuff that's blackened the eye of us hobbists.

Al

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Al, aint that the truth: "You can challenge till you're blue in the face and it won't do any good". I sometimes wonder if all our "challenging" is merely what makes them trench in their heels and invent MORE laws, to "address this pressing issue"

For example: I've heard of persons getting a "scram" in some city, or county, or state park, where no real rules existed (ie.: someone just morphing a "don't disturb the vegetation" or "cultural heritage" or whatever wording). So the md'r thinks "I must fight this!!" So he sets about on a letter writing campaign, gets friends to petition, etc.... Then guess what happens? Some higher up bureaucrat starts getting all these petitions and letters, and merely writes rules/laws to SPECIFICALLY disallow md'ing. Then what happens is, whereas before it was on a case-by-case basis where perhaps only at certain parks, or just a certain individual ranger, now it's park-system-wide ban, with rank-&-file employees being told to "be on the watch for this activity". Sheesk, it's almost like you need to just avoid *just* that one ranger, or *just* that one park, rather than fighting it.

 

[mlayers]

Welcome to the land of the free...Matt

 

[alpha105]

They wanna be like that im renting a Trench digging machine and just randomly taking 16x16 chunks out of the ground....no detector, and probing through em.

 

[Gettintoknowsomethin]

Whats the state arc. (rock hound) guys name and address? I want to write to him!

 

[coinguy1972]

The Wisconsin Department of No Results sucks donkey d@#k!! This is a freakin hobby,and I for one will NEVER back down. I will continue to water detect any time anywhere I want to! Im looking for lost rings and coins Not copper artifacts like they are afraid of. This is just another way Goverment is trying to controll us, well they're not gonna controll me they can fine me take my dector away or anything else they want but I will never stop my hobby.

 

[longsocks]

There is a movement in this country <<<< where there are people who dont want you to hunt, fish, or own a gun ... Their thought is you dont need to do that, thats why we have grocery stores.. your just going out there to aimlessly kill animals.. you dont need a gun, guns kill people... so do cars and drunks but you never hear that cry... Every metal detector dealer who does face to face business with some one wanting to buy a detector needs to tell that person, cover your holes, thats a must.. they also need to tell that person keep a lower profile dont agravate people ...Government is only a word, its narrow minded people that have their narrow views that click together, to make it difficult for us in our hobby, to detect..or gain access. We have to do more good will to turn this tide around or that will be the next cry .... no detecting.. I hope I never live to see that happen..I dont know if challenging will do any good or if it will make it worse. The more it seems that you contact the state or the DNR your just bring things to mind that they had not thought of and something more they can look into and stop.>>>some one said >>>Perhaps a common middle ground could be reached with some form of training and certification? <<<<<< as far as that goes, that could be another user tax or fee.. and once your on paper, big brother will be wanting to know how much your pulling in each year.. how many rings, how much change?? another form on your taxes at end of the year.. The less the state is in your business the better off your gonna be...

 

[itchin2dig]

After reading all the replies here I see a common thread. I'm from TN. but I'm still an American. It does not matter if its Wisconsin or California, or any state in between. The Constitution still says that it is a Government For the People, By the People. If enough get together and go directly to the individual that is making these laws. And be straight forward about petty laws that are made for just a few persons that are either not professional minded ( meaning the idiots that dig and do not cover their holes) or the few that think MD'ing is hurting their public lands then remind him or her that they are elected and they can be challenged or loose the elected office. The power here should be in the peoples hands not the bureaucracy which the people put in place. Let's take back our rights.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

itchin, you say: "The Constitution still says that it is a Government For the People, By the People" They would agree totally, and say that's EXACTLY why they are enacting supposed rules as they are. Ie.: "the park is for EVERYONE to enjoy, NOT just you to rip archaeologically sensitive things for you to take home and put on YOUR mantle place". So you see, they would take that phrase and turn it around for the "public good" and it would serve no good for your purpose


Next you say: "If enough get together and go directly to the individual that is making these laws..... " To the contrary, if "enough people" make "enough noise", it can merely back-fire to previously ignored venues put on front burner! Ie.: something on the books that no rank and file ever cared about or enforced, to be BIG NEWS that rank-&-file are NOW told to "be on the lookout for" type thing.

It's almost as if it's better that we are continued (in some locales) to be thought of as innocent geeks looking for modern pocket change in sand-boxes. Because the minute you go looking for sanctioned for more than that (clarification, exceptions, etc...) , is the minute you really will be locked out of even those sand-boxes.

Yes, I know, this doesn't do any good for those persons in certain locales that ALREADY have "specific" rules for them, but I just hope this bodes a lesson for those in other places to NOT put themselves on public radar.

 

[deepskyal]

After reading all the replies here I see a common thread. I'm from TN. but I'm still an American. It does not matter if its Wisconsin or California, or any state in between. The Constitution still says that it is a Government For the People, By the People. If enough get together and go directly to the individual that is making these laws. And be straight forward about petty laws that are made for just a few persons that are either not professional minded ( meaning the idiots that dig and do not cover their holes) or the few that think MD'ing is hurting their public lands then remind him or her that they are elected and they can be challenged or loose the elected office. The power here should be in the peoples hands not the bureaucracy which the people put in place. Let's take back our rights.

I hate to rain on your parade, but it's a lost cause.

I did lobbying back in the 80's in Harrisburg, and there were thousands of us. State senators and Reps hid from us or had their secretarys intervene on their behalf. A small core group of us went and met with some politicos and made a very, very small dent in our issues, but not nearly enough to make a difference. Before this, I was in the protests in DC with almost a million other people back in the early 70's. Can you guess what this showing resulted in? Nada, zip, zero, nothing.

So if a million people on the steps of the white house can't do anything......

Unless you have friends in high places and high priced lawyers, you'll gain nothing.

It's this stark reality of the times that there are those of us that just want to keep a low profile to enjoy ourselves without creating waves and making more issues.

It's going to take more than a handful of detectorists to change anything and letters are easily tossed in the garbage.

Al

 

[deepskyal]

Well put Tom.

Al

 

[diggemall]

Can anyone point me to the chapter in the WI statutes that makes MD-ing illegal ? I can't find the terms "detector" or "antiquities" or any variations I can think of in a search of the statutes.

Everything I can find in chapter 44.47 which deals with archaeology seems pretty fuzzy and open to a certain amount of interpretation. It prohibits "field archaeology" on ANY "sites" on public land (under ANY jurisdiction - state, county, city, whatever). However, it also infers that a place be identified as an " archaeological site" in order for the prohibition to apply............... How many points do you have to find in how large or small of an area for that area to become an "archaeological site" ? Fuzzy.

Diggem'

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Diggem, this is exactly the point! There's a lot of areas where people lament that they are supposedly told are off-limits to detecting. And the citations they come up with, are fuzzy things about cultural heritage, or .... don't disturb the vegetation .... or indian fossils rules, etc.. blah blah. So some isolated ranger gives such an answer, or some isolated park does indeed boot persons, so all of the sudden, people circulate on the net that their state is off-limits. So what do they do? Rather than avoid *just* that one ranger, or *just* that one park, they start asking more & more questions, petitioning, etc... And before you know it, there WILL be a state-wide rule that DOES specifically mention metal detecting by name. It seems we are our own worst enemy, eh?

I mean, I bet if I walked into city hall in MY city, with a shovel in my hand, and asked "can I metal detect in the parks?" I bet I'd get a "no" too. But the truth is, I can go anytime I want here, and as long as I'm not a nuisance (using due discretion, go at low traffic times after 5pm, etc...) NO ONE REALLY CARED.

An example of this was the state of Utah, where ........ no specific rule existed (barring things that could be "morphed" if you tried hard enough). But guess what? Because of all this fear some md'rs have ("oh no, I better check at each kiosk, or write letters to the state park's dept, etc...), apparently the state of Utah issues a "clarification" to all their state parks, that specifically, now, disallows md'ing in state parks. But get this: the reason given for this "clarification", was "due to the many inquiries we receive each year, we will clarify the state's position ..." blah blah blah. You see how perhaps no one really gave a durn (barring some isolated incidents, or someone digging a truly sensitive site), but NOW you get a rule written, to address your pressing issue.

 

[Gettintoknowsomethin]

Wisconsin, wonderful people's republic of...

"ARghhh!

Should start posting thread after thread of Indian artifacts recovered on private property up there. Then forward them to the freaks in charge of that place." Lowbatts Why would you want to do such a thing! We must keep a low profile in this hobby!. I really hope you were joking. I dont think taunting the state is the answer to this problem at all. I too live in Wisconsin and find many places on private property to detect. I myself have sent the guy responsible for this crackdown on my hobby a letter of protest regarding this law. We must work within the system not outside it!. I dont believe Wisconsin will ever totally ban Metal detecting in our state. They could never keep us from private property hunting with the owners consent. If you are ever in the Janesville area you are welcome to detect on my property! I have many acres of un hunted land. I also have permission to hunt a close neighbors land this summer it has a Civil war sight on it I know the owner well and I am sure I could also get you there to hunt!. By the way, heres a copy of the letter I sent to the guy at the DNR I am sure you have your reasons for restricting my hobby of metal detecting here in Wisconsin, I enjoy the hobby very much all I look for is lost coins. I have no interest in historic relics. I understand some in my hobby here in Wisconsin have abused the hobby by removing artifacts related to the history of our state but I am sure those people are few in number compared to others like myself. I own land in Wisconsin and have found many artifacts from our distant past. When I do find such a item I do not remove it from its resting place I re bury the item. I even have a Civil War muster sight on my property with many fine items from that period on it. I believe your total ban on detecting land that my taxes pay for is unfair to responsible hobbyist like myself!. In the UK for example the government permits detecting on historical sights the detector est is required to report all finds to a government official in his area. The item then goes to a historical study location and if the government determines the item is of value to the people the items finder gets a cash reward for finding it . Remember if we didn't find the item it simply rots away in the ground and no one benefits from the study of the item!. I have great respect for the work you do with history but dont you think you might have gone a little too far?.


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