1600s Latten Spoon Bowl w/ Algonquian Engraving & Cut Brass Fishing Spear - Any Info?

[Silver Tree Chaser]

<div class="bbWrapper"><b>1600s Latten Spoon Bowl w/ Algonquian Engraving &amp; Cut Brass Fishing Spear - Any Info?</b><br /> <br /> I recovered this 1600&#039;s English spoon bowl with an Algonquian engraving and a brass cut fishing spear along with other finds from a wigwam site in Southern New England over the past month. I posted all of it on Today&#039;s Finds, but received no replies for these particular finds. <br /> <br /> <script class="js-extraPhrases" type="application/json"> { "lightbox_close": "Close", "lightbox_next": "Next", "lightbox_previous": "Previous", "lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.", "lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow", "lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow", "lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen", "lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails", "lightbox_download": "Download", "lightbox_share": "Share", "lightbox_zoom": "Zoom", "lightbox_new_window": "New window", "lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar" } </script> <a href="https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/pa220118-webp.1873905/" target="_blank" class="js-lbImage" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html=""><img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/data/attachments/1680/1680931-f8af535d76ef34797e4417396fbdf9af.jpg?hash=sl0lXvSHtz" class="bbImage " style="" alt="PA220118.webp" title="PA220118.webp" width="200" height="150" loading="lazy" /></a> <a href="https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/pa120395-webp.1873906/" target="_blank" class="js-lbImage" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html=""><img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/data/attachments/1696/1696410-5b7183699ff4967b29c1d3f1d0e2854e.jpg?hash=srIIwM23An" class="bbImage " style="" alt="PA120395.webp" title="PA120395.webp" width="200" height="150" loading="lazy" /></a><br /> <br /> Is anyone familiar with the design carved into the spoon bowl? I&#039;ve read that it&#039;s a Native American hope symbol, composed of an eight-pointed star (like compass points) enclosed in a circle. Has anyone seen such a design on a Native American artifact of similar age? Is it a variation of a medicine wheel? <br /> <br /> The cut brass fishing spear came from the same site and came out of one four-foot square area that produced two brass arrow points, bits of irons, lead shot, small cooper tacks, and a larger nail fashioned into a pipe tamper. It was definitely produced by an Algonquin. While I&#039;ve recovered brass points and a fish hook over the years , I&#039;ve never seen or even heard of a cut brass fishing spear. Has anyone seen something similar? Any reply would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.</div>

 

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[Beadman]

<div class="bbWrapper">I&#039;ll try to answer your ?&#039;s....the silver spoon would be similar to &quot;apostille spoons&quot; .. usually those have religious figures (Jesuit related) at end of handle,they could also be plain (,no figures) yours is definitely silver ,..I see a Makers Mark , you should research the silver Smith who made it,as far as the engraving YES I&#039;ve seen similar designs etched on stone beads &amp; copper orniments ,it does look like a medicine wheel &amp; could be ,but I think it is probably reference to the sun ,so &quot;sun rays&quot; especially in the Northeast ,it appears the native had trouble scribing it around the spoon because it&#039;s concaval...as far as the brass harpoon,that&#039;s typical ... they come in brass,iron,bone,sometimes possibly shell....that was more than likely cut from a brass kettle , especially if you found brass pts along with it ,...hope this answers most of your ?&#039;s ...keep looking , should be other stuff there ,...beads maybe<img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/smilies/huh.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="???" title="Huh ???" data-shortname="???" /> ..nice finds ,happy hunting<img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/smilies/icon_thumright.gif" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":icon_thumright:" title="icon_thumright :icon_thumright:" data-shortname=":icon_thumright:" /></div>

 

[ARC]

<div class="bbWrapper">I would really like to see a full view of spoon.<br /> <br /> I will tell you this from rip... if you are gonna try and track down the maker the touch mark is called / help with your quest... &quot;pierced heart&quot;.<br /> <br /> Hope this helps... look forward to updates.</div>

 

[Red-Coat]

<div class="bbWrapper">Nice spoon.<br /> <br /> It&#039;s not &quot;definitely silver&quot; of course. That&#039;s a pewterer&#039;s mark.<br /> <br /> Your touch mark is illustrated in Hilton Price’s “Old Base Metal Spoons” together with a couple of others using the ‘GP’ initials and is documented for apostle spoons with seal top knops. Those have turned up from London excavations and it’s believed to be a London mark.<br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/gp2-webp.1882172/" target="_blank" class="js-lbImage" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html=""><img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/data/attachments/1699/1699415-fec138be070c6ffb9427a613c590e7e6.jpg?hash=kVT-2p1Vu0" class="bbImage " style="" alt="GP2.webp" title="GP2.webp" width="150" height="154" loading="lazy" /></a><br /> <br /> Hilton Price doesn’t speculate on the maker(s), but only says:<br /> <br /> <i>The following list of marks or touches taken from XVIlth century latten spoons shows a few examples of spoonmakers bearing the same initials using touches differentiated. It would not be correct to assert that they were the same people having changed their marks as the pewter spoonmakers had to do after Christmas, 1667, but it is possible they were different individuals using the same initials.</i><br /> <br /> <a href="https://www.treasurenet.com/attachments/gp1-webp.1882174/" target="_blank" class="js-lbImage" data-lb-sidebar-href="" data-lb-caption-extra-html=""><img src="https://www.treasurenet.com/data/attachments/1699/1699419-cda44d6824b6f5c7deaf7e03db0405c8.jpg?hash=0laROpAUjU" class="bbImage " style="" alt="GP1.webp" title="GP1.webp" width="449" height="150" loading="lazy" /></a><br /> <br /> The Pewter Society maintains a comprehensive database of pewterers&#039; marks, but you have to be a Society member to access it (I&#039;m not a member).</div>

 

[Red-Coat]

<div class="bbWrapper">Just to add this. &#039;Latten&#039; loosely describes a number of base metal alloy compositions which are variations on copper/zinc brasses. To hide the &#039;yellowness&#039; of these alloys and improve their appearance relative to silver or pewter, from around the mid-17th Century they were often subsequently dipped in molten tin. Since the late 1500s the Worshipful Company of Pewterers in England had been striving to keep &#039;yellow metal&#039; spoons out of the country and the introduction of tinning was also an unwelcome development for traditional pewterers. So, the term &quot;Whited Double&quot; on that touch mark I showed above (sometimes also expressed as &quot;Double Tinned&quot;) is an indication the item has had two dips into molten tin.</div>