1605 Tile Set German Commemorative Bracelet Old Banknotes Yard Sale find!

[WhiskeyStill]

Hi y'all. Just got my first detector which was how I found this forum today (google). Thought I'd share a recent "above ground" find from this past weekend in case anyone is interested or can help me learn more about what it all is. Thanks and looking forward to hanging out here a ton in the near future...

This is a seemingly random collection of stuff from a guy who claimed he rescued it from the basement of an old rotted out home in the Chattanooga area prior to demolition some years back. He really had no idea what it was other than someone told him it was probably French and German and really old.

Here is all I can tell/guess about it:

--the 11.5 x 11.5" tile set appears to have originally been mounted on a wall in plaster and the lower section reads "ano 1605". Not sure if the 4 outer tiles are original. Probably not.
It reads "LVCEM POST TENEBRAS SPERO". My best guess is that it is either the hallmark of some kind of fraternal order or maybe a family crest? Would love more info on the origin translation images and symbols if anyone knows.

--the 2 to 3" diam. custom-made bracelet appears to be a French-made German commemorative composed of Copper Brass and maybe Nickel or some other amalgam? It has two types of leaf trim possibly oak on the right.
It reads "1914" at the base of the black German cross (which also has a W in the center and a crown above) and "Feldzug...1914-15" is neatly etched on either side of the cross. A german friend of mine mentioned that there were German "crusades" in Western Africa at the time and that Feldzug means crusade. Neatly etched in cursive inside the bracelet is the name "Chaumont" above "A Will". "Chaumont" is a town in France. I'm assuming "A Will" made the bracelet.

--There were also a bunch of old banknotes mostly francs which I will include. One of them was from a German prison according to my german friend. The dates again are from the 1914 to 1919 range which makes me wonder if this stuff maybe originated from a WW I vet.

My sincere apologies. The horrible pics of the bracelet and tiles were taken with my Crackberry. I have more images of the banknotes if anyone is interested and I can take better pics upon request.

 

[daroofa]

Welcome to Tnet. The Latin on the tile is "Post tenebras spero lucem" or "After darkness, I hope for light". The tile is a copy of the cover of the first edition of Don Quixote, published in 1605.

 

[WhiskeyStill]

Thx daroof! That is too cool! Guess it might mean it could date a bit later than 1605. That is my new favorite quote...

 

[curbdiggercarl57]

I'm leaning towards the bracelet commemorating a battle in France during WW1. Would love to see a close up of the front. Think you nail it on the head as far as an German WW1 vet's personal stuff. Really cool stuff there!
Carl

 

[WhiskeyStill]

I'm leaning towards the bracelet commemorating a battle in France during WW1. Would love to see a close up of the front. Think you nail it on the head as far as an German WW1 vet's personal stuff. Really cool stuff there!
Carl

I'll try to get a better pic up tomorrow for ya. If it is commemorating a battle would it read "1914-15"?

 

[Deepdiger60]

Welcome to T-Net nice finds you have to love the art work on those old bank notes i have a lot of those from long ago i saved ,that WW I German cross is a good find there is one now on E-Bay the asking price is 1300.00 !! Good finds Dd60
http://cgi.ebay.com/ORIGINAL-GERMAN...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item29eb363f7d

 

[Monkeywrangler2]

More info on the latin translation--
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

Post tenebras lux is a Latin phrase translated as Light After Darkness. It is Post tenebras spero lucem ("After darkness, I hope for light") in the Vulgate version of Job 17:12[1].
Post Tenebras Lux in the Seal of the Canton of Geneva.

The phrase was adopted as the Calvinist motto, and was subsequently adopted as the motto of the entire Protestant Reformation,[2] and also of John Calvin's adopted city of Geneva, Switzerland. As a mark of its role in the Calvinist movement, the motto is engraved on the Reformation Wall, in Geneva, and the Huguenot Monument, in Franschhoek, South Africa.

Post tenebras lux was formerly the state motto of Chile, before being replaced by the Spanish Por la razón o la fuerza ('By reason or by strength'). It is the motto of American International College in Springfield, Massachusetts and is one of the two mottos of Robert College, an American school in Istanbul, Turkey and also the motto of Beyoglu Anadolu Lisesi in Istanbul (former English High School For Girls). It is also the motto of Externado de Colombia University.
[edit] Other uses

It is also the ex-libris of the original Quixote editor, Juan de la Cuesta.
[edit] References

1. ^ Job 17:11-13:
11 dies mei transierunt cogitationes meae dissipatae sunt torquentes cor meum
12 noctem verterunt in diem et rursum post tenebras spero lucem
13 si sustinuero infernus domus mea est in tenebris stravi lectulum meum
2. ^ "History of the Reformation". http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/browning/Lesson10.pdf. Retrieved 3 March 2007.

 

[Westfront]

The bracelet looks like some kind of trench art. During wwI a lot of these stuff was made from the soldiers during their spare time. The bracelet itself is made from a copperband of a grenade. Please post some more pics from the front and side!

 

[Westfront]

The first banknote is money for POWs. It reads on the front: "Only POW Money! The stamp reads: "POW WorkingCamp 6" The rear reads "Money on this coupon will be payed in cash at release, or in case of remittal to another camp it will be transferred"

 

[WhiskeyStill]

The bracelet looks like some kind of trench art. During wwI a lot of these stuff was made from the soldiers during their spare time. The bracelet itself is made from a copperband of a grenade. Please post some more pics from the front and side!

Grenade copperband! Awesome! If this (and the one available on eBay) were made by an individual soldier....wow! I guess it all goes back to German engineering/design quality. The similarities between both bands makes me think that there is definitely more to the story regarding the who and the how. I really would like to know who A Will is (maybe the maker or the one for whom it was made) and the significance of Chaumont. Still not clear as to the dates and meaning of Feldzug. Does that really mean "crusade" as I understand it in english? I'm thinking not.

My apologies. The lighting in my office sucks for detailed close-ups and will be corrected soon.
Thanks for the additional info! I love this stuff!

 

[jeff741972]

Wow!! that is cool.

 

[ivan salis]

1914 (second class) iron cross type medal and part of a granade band made were into a bracelet (by Will A?--- on prison listlike many "offical govt list" * its last (family) name first --- A nderson, then first name Will iam so --- A Will makes sense--- or might be WILL iam - A (family name )--

pow "prison camp money"==and other WW1 ish era type bills from various countries -- these things most likely belonged a WW1 era german soldier that once was in a POW camp

 

[WhiskeyStill]

Quick question: Does anyone know if it would be okay to soak this in Vinegar for a little while to clear off some of the corrosion and brighten the copper or is it best to keep it "as is"?

 

[ivan salis]

metal polish / buff it --for collecters of old stuff however many want it "as is."

 

[ivan salis]

I did a bit of research for you *seems chaumont, france was a allied base area during WW1 --and german POW's were kept there. **** so with --POW money --and the bracelet being marked chaumont (france)-- i'd feel comfortible in saying say this ---- Will A was a german POW in chaumont , france during WW1 where he made this "trench art" type bracelet from a WW1 era grenade restraining band and a german iron cross second class medal.

 

[EdleBrock]

The bracelet is made from the driving band from an artillery shell.

A driving band or rotating band is a soft malleable metal usually copper that rings the base of the projectile. When fired it deforms into the rifling of the barrel to seal the gasses. You can see the rifling grooves on the band in your picture.

You can find these on militaria auction sites...I've seen them for $75 USD.

For reference, here's a diagram of a shell with the driving band labeled.

 

[EdleBrock]

Feldzug could also mean "campaign". Although, Germany always believed that they were on a crusade from the time the Roman Empire fell up until the end of WWII...a lot of their equipment, and propaganda, belt buckles etc had the phrase "Gott Mit Uns"..."God With Us". But I'm leaning towards campaign.

The date range as ivan indicated most likely means it was made during the war. After the war, German society was in no mood to neither celebrate nor commemorate WWI.

I am confused on the "iron cross" though. It's very crude compared to the official awards. The "W" seems out of sorts and the whole thing seems one dimensional rather than cast. Possibly the cross was also handmade and painted?

It's a nice piece just the same and worth a bit.

Hope this helps.

 

[sasnz]

Thats beautiful as it is, DONTclean it.

Awesome finds

Cheers Sasnz

 

[Westfront]

Ill go with EdleBrock, the iron cross is not an official medal. Looks more like a miniature or it is selfmade. I think selfmade. Not painted, rather enamel... The iron cross is 3D with a silver outer and black painted iron inner part. You have no mesurement to this, but an iron cross is about 2". Sorry i have no pic...but one from rotating bands. Thanks EdleBrock for the exact term! This are items from my collection. As You can see they are in very different sizes, the smallest can be worn as finger rings.... I dont think the money was from a german POW. It is german money , Thyssen is a big steel plant still in germany. Feldzug means campaign.

 

[WhiskeyStill]

"...I'm leaning towards campaign.

Thanks! That does make more sense to me, but I guess the religious factor cannot be ignored as well.

I am confused on the "iron cross" though. It's very crude compared to the official awards. The "W" seems out of sorts and the whole thing seems one dimensional rather than cast. Possibly the cross was also handmade and painted?

I'll post a copy of the other bracelet mentioned earlier in the discussion. The maker used the same or very similar cross as well as the oak leaf pattern found on the right of mine (Does anyone know what the leaf pattern on the left is called?).
I'll also include a pic of a replica of the 2nd class medal. I found that shortly after the outbreak of World War I, Kaiser Wilhelm II revised the Iron Cross military decoration, changing the date on the front from 1870 to 1914. So the "W" refers to Wilhelm then.
It appears to be about the same size as the one found on an Iron Cross 1st Class single ribbon. Since the symbol is not cast, I agree that it was probably cut and painted.

Thanks so much for taking the time to post that Mark I pic to help ID the origin of the band, EdleBrock!

Lovin' this site!!