1715 wrecks gold escudos

[PyrateJim]

We always heard used to hear about the escudo's found on the 1715 wrecks from Bogota and Lima, but what about escudo's from the Seville mint or other Spanish, Old World, mints? Where there any found and if so, what periods are represented?

 

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[Trez]

Jim,

The only other Mints that I know of are one...the "rare" Cuzco 1 or 2 escudos.
don't forget Mexico Mint.

Trez

 

[PyrateJim]

Thanks Trez. Yes, those are New World mints. What I was curious about is the finding of Old World Mint coins on the 1715 fleet. Since New World mints received permission from Spain to mint their own gold in the 1630's (Bogota even before that) I was curious as to the rarity of Old World mint coins on the 1715 wrecks. I'm guessing that they would have to have been the private funds of a passenger/sailor since the treasure being carried back would have been all New World mint stuff.

Thanks Again.

 

[Peg Leg]

Jim,

The only other Mints that I know of are one...the "rare" Cuzco 1 or 2 escudos.
don't forget Mexico Mint.

Trez

Trez,
Can you give the names of the Old World mints in Spain.
Peg leg

 

[divewrecks]

Don, I believe the two big ones were in Cadiz and Seville. I would be glad to help in any research if ya need it. Stan Dilcher

 

[Trez]

Peg,

I thought I gave you this link...
http://www.euromint.net/ingles/cmbusca.asp?t=2&lang=2

This site may help you in your Old World mints form Spain.........

Good Luck,

Trez

 

[divewrecks]

We always heard used to hear about the escudo's found on the 1715 wrecks from Bogota and Lima, but what about escudo's from the Seville mint or other Spanish, Old World, mints? Where there any found and if so, what periods are represented?

Most 1715 gold was Mexican, however Lima (Peru) was a close runner up. If you want a percentage comparison I would suggest using Dr. Alan Craig's book on gold coins in the Florida collection. What the state has is a representative cross-sdection in history.

Old world cobs (of which I have a pocketfull of silver and donated two to the recent expo) were not uncommon 1715 fleet finds. Yes, they were found in small hoards, as they were personal wealth of a well-to-do passenger. They would not be a part of a sailors's stash as someone suggested (unless they were a thief). A 2 escudo coin might exceed a common sailor's wages for a new world trip if that tells you anything.

Stan Dilcher

Weird the way this post came out, but my reply follows the first couple of sentences. Just a clarification. Stan Dilcher

 

[Trez]

Sorry Stan,

Peg asked for some info..........and yes, you are corect doesn't really fall under your post.

I "think" your answer is NONE.
and my word in quote...not often enough


Trez

 

[stevemc]

I think Trez was answering Peg Legs question, by guiding him back to a website that Peg Leg had shown to us, about Old world mints, last year. And I think he meant none as none or not many Old world minted escudos were found on the 1715 fleets. These were bringing back money made in the New world, that was their job, along with bringing other valuables back to the old world. I am sure there were a few old world coins brought over here, but not many.

 

[divewrecks]

I think Trez was answering Peg Legs question, by guiding him back to a website that Peg Leg had shown to us, about Old world mints, last year. And I think he meant none as none or not many Old world minted escudos were found on the 1715 fleets. These were bringing back money made in the New world, that was their job, along with bringing other valuables back to the old world. I am sure there were a few old world coins brought over here, but not many.

Steve, thanks for clarifying things for me. I believe I can document a few spanish mint coins from the 1715 fleet, but as you said, there were not many. Thanks again for your helpful input.

Stan Dilcher

 

[Peg Leg]

You know everyone seems to think that the Gold coins I am talking about came from the 1715 fleet. This is an assumption since none of the gold items I am talking about were recovered from the ocean. They were recovered from DRY LAND along with a lot of silver and pottery sherds and a few ballast rocks. I also recovered some iron pot pieces.
I think that this location was a major AIS village and as such the Gold and Silver could have come from anywhere on the East Coast because if it ws a major AIS village they would have received TRIBUTE from every AIS village from Cape Canaveral all the way to the Keys.
One must understand that the common native was NOT allowed to have GOLD. This belonged to the CHIEF.
I hope this clears up the misception that these gold coins MUST have have been associated with the 1715 Fleet.
Thanks
Peg Leg

 

[Trez]

I think Trez was answering Peg Legs question, by guiding him back to a website that Peg Leg had shown to us, about Old world mints, last year. And I think he meant none as none or not many Old world minted escudos were found on the 1715 fleets. These were bringing back money made in the New world, that was their job, along with bringing other valuables back to the old world. I am sure there were a few old world coins brought over here, but not many.

Thanks Steve...you were correct, I'm not so sure what I was reading, lol.
Just goes to show, one must read a post, then re-read it.

Like my dad always says, "measure twice cut once"

 

[mad4wrecks]

Pegleg wrote: I think that this location was a major AIS village and as such the Gold and Silver could have come from anywhere on the East Coast because if it ws a major AIS village they would have received TRIBUTE from every AIS village from Cape Canaveral all the way to the Keys

Don, just a few clarifications: The Ais domain did not extend down to the Keys. In fact, it didn't extend very far south past Fort Pierce, where the Jaegas and then further south, the Tequesta indians ruled.

There was a large Ais village in Vero Beach.

There is no documentaion that just the Ais chief (Casseekey) was allowed to have gold. Many common indians wore gold jewelry. This goes back to the time of Columbus.

I agree though that there is quite a bit of gold and silver missing from what the Ais salvaged from shipwrecks along the east coast. Did they hide it on the barrier islands or did they cart it inland (and why?)
In the video section here on Tnet and there is an interesting video there from Matt Mattson regarding his aerial search for the Ais villages.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,100111.0.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The Ais may have paid tribute to "Carlos" the Calusa chief. The Jaegas had set up villages far inland west of 441, high ground then on the edge of the Everglades, where they could travel anywhere south or west by dugout canoe.

 

[Trez]

We always heard used to hear about the escudo's found on the 1715 wrecks from Bogota and Lima, but what about escudo's from the Seville mint or other Spanish, Old World, mints? Where there any found and if so, what periods are represented?

I must admit, that is the first one I have heard of coming from the wrecks...but, PyrateJim...here you go.

http://www.sedwickcoins.com/080713161002.jpg
4 escudos, Charles II, assayer not visible, rare as from the 1715 Fleet, with certificate, the coin mounted in an 18K necklace-bezel. Very odd type for the Fleet, but comes from a reliable source and the surfaces have the right "look," being matte XF with a few minor scrapes, most of shield, very off-center cross, very thick and small planchet (looks more like a 2E), definitely the cheapest Fleet 4E around!


Trez

 

[Trez]

We always heard used to hear about the escudo's found on the 1715 wrecks from Bogota and Lima, but what about escudo's from the Seville mint or other Spanish, Old World, mints? Where there any found and if so, what periods are represented?

My post was pertaining to Pyrate JIm's request......
as to the Gold Escudos from the 1715 Fleet, what mints have been found on those wrecks, just the 1715 Fleet. Maybe I am reading it wrong

Trez

 

[IndianRiverSonrise]

We always heard used to hear about the escudo's found on the 1715 wrecks from Bogota and Lima, but what about escudo's from the Seville mint or other Spanish, Old World, mints? Where there any found and if so, what periods are represented?

My post was pertaining to Pyrate JIm's request......
as to the Gold Escudos from the 1715 Fleet, what mints have been found on those wrecks, just the 1715 Fleet. Maybe I am reading it wrong

Trez

I think you are exactly right. I tend to make loose associations and find things relevant and interesting when the relevance is not always immediately obvious to others. When I want to know which of a list has been found, for example, I often also want to know the larger list of items that have not been found but which could possibly be found, and find it instructive to rule out items which are unlikely for some reason. I've removed my msg. with the list of mints as being too off topic for this thread. Sorry for the distraction.

 

[TNBob]

GUYS: Look at Lot 100 in Sedwicks latest treasure auction. It is a Seville 8 Escudos 1712M from the 1715 fleet. It looks more like a Galano or "Royal" as they used to call them than a cob, it is on a Milled planchet. I cant believe nobody bought it. You could have gotten it for $3200 afterward if you wanted it. I picked up a nice Dated 1655 Maravillas cob after the auction cheap. Would love to find a real gold cob sometime. When is the next big storm supposed to hit Florida?? LOL
Bob