7 inch spear point sells for.......WOW!

[treasurejack]

It took place at a public auction in Findlay Ohio, as reported in the "Lima News", it was a rare Archaic spear point with dovetail between 2000 & 4000 years old, it sold for $121,000.00 !!!! According to the article I guess less then fifteen of them have ever been found, (or at least reported.) I don't have a link or picture but I'm sure there's one out there if you want to search for it. Just thought I'd pass the word around in case any of you might not recognize the true value of that great find you made last year. lol

 

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[fossis]

Wow, is right Treasurejack, I better have my (turkeytail) appraised.

Good story, fossis..................

 

[alwayslookin]

That is pretty amazing. Hope we can find the picture and the story.

Dave

 

[alwayslookin]

Ok I found the link...here is the story..

http://www.limanews.com/story.php?IDnum=34385&q=spear

 

[Atlantis0077]

Morning,

And there is the root of the problem.

Collectors and speculators are continuing to run the price of artifacts through the roof. People see something like that, which must be a really oustanding and rare piece to garner such a prize price, and think that all relics are priced thusly.

This in turn fuels a desperate search for relics by those hoping for a quick buck and puts all sites at peril from pot hunters and scavengers. Because of such indiscriminate looting, tribes and governmental agencies now have the impetus to enact laws against ALL collecting.

It would not surprise me at all for it to be illegal soon to even possess an arrowhead as crazy as they are getting with this stuff. Looks like greed on the part of some is about to end another wonderful hobby for all.


Atlantis

 

[pickaway]

Yeah it was the buzz at the last ASO chapter meeting.I would never pay that much for a artifact.
heres a link with pic and story of this big flint ridge peice.
http://www.oldbarn.com/

 

[treasurejack]

All so very ture, however, the other side of this same "fueling" problem that none of us want to admit is that most of us would in fact sell our prize arrowhead for $121,000. The buying and selling of artifacts, even between club members, has been going on for a long time, we all know guys who buy pieces for their personal collections, some waiting for the right price and others paying top dollar. Yes, $121,000 gets noticed, but in terms of "root" that particular sell and others like it cannot be claimed the "roots" to the problem. In my opinion the actual root to the problem is the actual buying and selling, regardless of the cost and reasons.

 

[bean man]

You hit the nail on the head,Treasurejack.
bm

 

[Michael Karr]

Here's a picture of it,Big Dovetail blade,EARLY ARCHAIC 10,000--7,000 BP

 

[rootdigger]

Ok, can anyone please tell me what makes this 7 inch Dovetail that valuable? Is it the size?, the flint its made of? Its shape? Or because not many found or reported anyway? And does anyone have a link to that story? Or none of the above? lol
Thanks

rootdigger

 

[Mark Todd]

Ok, can anyone please tell me what makes this 7 inch Dovetail that valuable? Is it the size?, the flint its made of? Its shape? Or because not many found or reported anyway? And does anyone have a link to that story? Or none of the above? lol
Thanks

rootdigger

Answer; yes all the above reasons that you mentioned, and I would include assurance of authenticity!
I'm not familiar with the sale of the dovetail posted in this thread but if your just wondering if the price could really be legitimate the answer is "yes".
Here's some info. on the famous Ross blade that brought $276,000 at auction a while back not to mention the other artifacts that sold for high $'s.
The second blade pictured ( the Clovis ) was found by a high school classmate of mine, so I'm real familiar with that one.

 

[Gold Maven]

that was quite a collection.

I hate to see the big prices, it just makes it more lucrative for people trying to pass reproductions as authentic.

I used to think I could easily spot a reproduction, but when they can reproduce a patina, it gets tough.

Any piece over 3 inches, I am immediately suspicious of.

 

[Mark Todd]

Thank-you Mark, The reason I ask on that particular one is the pic of it posted by Michael Carr is of to me, ordinary flint, and I just can't phantom it being worth that much, there's a reason for that, the article you posted I could see being high value as well as others I've found online made of that Ohio Flintridge now the reason, I am going to be posting a pic of a Dovetail I have that will surely raise questions I'm sure, but it's made of Indiana Bayport chert/flint I'm told by 2 of our Archeologist here in Midland, MI. as well as the blank alongside it, the point measure's 7 3/4" long by 2 1/2" wide.. is 10.62 mm thick. the Arch's I've taken these too both agree by the patina on them, that they are at least 2000 years old, possibly older. Great Lakes Dovetail and a blank, I didn't get a certificate of authenticity from them, but I do believe that would be a good idea and will when time allows it. . Here's what I found was unique in their analysis, they agree this Dovetail is unusually large for its type, unusually thick, that's why I included its thickness. therefore they are thinking it was used as a ceremonial or burial piece. I also have noticed one side of the Dovetail has a vein of Quartz between the 3 and 3 1/2" mark, I didn't notice that until I zoomed in on the picture. Hopefully I can insert more then one picture. View attachment 1241985View attachment 1241986View attachment 1241987

I got time to do a little more research on the Saint Charles/Dovetail of the original poster of this thread.
You wanted to know more about the point, the material, the "story". I found some information, the original owner? More properly, the owner at the time of sale was the family of Roy H. Rienhart, not to be confused with Bryan Rienhardt of "grey ghosts" fame. He was a paleontologist and possessed that piece in his collection and it was evidently found in the early 1940's. The material is Flintridge chert and it's size is at the rare upper spectrum for its type.
You mentioned that your Dovetail might raise questions or be controversial and that is understandable, I'm sure guessing your already aware of how many "grey ghosts" are out there somewhere, but just in case your not I'll add that information.
I assume you purchased your two artifacts since you didn't state otherwise. It would be interesting to know more about that story? I hope you understand that I'm not being skeptical just judicial as anyone with an informed understanding of exceptionally rare sized Dovetail would be.
Were the archeologists you showed it to familiar with "grey ghosts", that's a question I would have had if I had obtained your dovetail and inquired of them.
By the way, the high school classmate of mine who found Hixton Quartz Clovis also found a Dovetail that would go 6 or 7 inches if whole so I know how possible they are. He found 2 large broken pieces of it in two consecutive years, still missing the tip but still looking for it. I'll include a picture of it with other information I found.
Credits to Bobby Onken for pics. from his wonderful (but expensive) book: Legend Of Prehistoric Art

 

[Mark Todd]

More on Grey Ghosts from "lithiccastlabs"...

 

[celtic fox]

wow thats hard to believe it was worth so much wow

 

[Mark Todd]

Mark, thanks fer all the info. These are family heirlooms, passed unto me thru my dad, I'm big on history and our family history. These, by my dad, woulda been found in the Bath MI area, My grgrandpa was a wagon wheel maker, a bootlegger and gen'l laborer. He worked the fields and got caught bootlegging, so, worked the chain gang, they were found during them times, exactly when, not known. That dates his finds, which includes an unfinished Corner Notch Indiana Banded Chert point I didn't show yet, between 1910 to 1930. The Arch's, I spoke with the one earlier this week. He and the other Arch are still in agreement to their age, 2000 plus years old. And still in agreement to the Dovetail's use. Which I would like to know more about why that size?

rootdigger, dovetail blades (archeologists usually prefer to call them St Charles blades) are from the "archaic" period and are generally dated (give or take) to around 6500 B.C. or 8500 B.P., so I must assume that the Archeologists you spoke with were saying that they had reason to believe that your artifact is at least 2,000 years old, on what grounds I have no idea. Don't misunderstand me as doubting the issue, I'm just saying no criteria was put forward.
Also, although I'm no expert on flint napping, your piece doesn't look like a "grey ghost" to me, and being handed down through your family makes it all the more unlikely. The fact that your relative was a wagon wheel maker predates when they were produced.
As far as size goes, they were probably butcher knives, or possibly spear points, many of which have been found that were once that size have been greatly reduced by resharpening.
Feel free to P.M. me if you would like to know how to contact some of the most successful "buyer/seller/brokers in the states, who might be willing assess your piece.

 

[mogi]

 

[Charl]

View attachment 1386657

Welcome. Can you fill us in? Size? History?

 

[joshuaream]

Mogi, COA's aren't always what they are cracked up to be.

 

[mogi]

Mogi, COA's aren't always what they are cracked up to be.