Tom_in_CA
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An example of the psychology of "asking" (as it relates to md'ing public land)
There's the school of thought that when it comes to public parks, school yards, etc.... that it's advisable to ask permission. Or .... at least .... inquire if there's any rules or laws, by asking a desk-bound person (afterall, you "can't be too careful" eh?). It's an automated reflex once you've read a few "scary stories", eh?
Here's an example of the psychology of asking permission, as it relates to md'ing, on public lands. For purposes of md'ing, it will assume, of course, that there is no real specific prohibition. Otherwise I feel that asking can sometimes be met with the psychology of "no one cared .... until you asked", like this:
Ok, I own a street sweeper company. We have the big municipal construction-oriented sized units (primarily asphalt and construction related work). One of the wear parts of our sweepers, is the rotating curb gutter brooms. They look like this:
After awhile, the steel wire bristles wear down & have to be replaced. We have the option of buying ready-to-install segments, or we can "stuff our own" with wire that is bought in 100 lb boxes. We've chosen to stuff our own. That means that the plastic top part is used over and and over again. However, sometimes those plastic slug parts break too, and have to be pitched.
One day, years ago, I was talking to a top person in our city's public works yard. As the official and I were shop-talking, talking about sweepers, etc..., the subject came up about these gutter brooms. He said that they buy theirs ready to install each time. That means they'd be throwing away their worn out ones each time. So I asked the fellow: "Can you set aside a few of these, next time you're doing your replacements, because we can use the plastic parts, since we stuff our own"
The public works guy replied "No, I can not put them aside for you". At first, I thought the guy must have mis-heard me (because afterall, what objection could he possibly have, if they're just going to throw them away?). So I asked again, re-phrasing it. Again, he said, "no", they can not put some aside for us. Then he went on to explain that: .... legally ... it could be construed as "bias" or "collusion" or "favoritism", if they were to be giving things to one vendor, as opposed to another.
So I said "ok then, is it ok if I show up on the day when your dumpster is slated to go out on the street, and pull a few of the slugs out myself?" Again, he said "No". And I perceived that the answer would be the same as the first question. That if he were to say "Yes", then that too is .... or could be ... perceived as some sort of "legal permission" to dumpster dive. And again, be perceived as a permission or favoritism, that could be griped about by a competitor, if ever I were to tell the competitor "the city said I can fish them out". So again, the city guy said "no".
So I shrugged my shoulders and left. A week or so later though, when I decided we needed some more of these plastic slugs, I merely found out which night the dumpsters get put on the curb outside the city corporate yard, and fished some out of their dumpster. Problem solved
So you can see how ...... the easy and/or obligatory answer is often-times "no", when in fact, no one may actually care (unless you're being a real nuisance or eye-sore or something).
Thus when I read on forums that "such & such city is off-limits" or "I found out that such & such beach is illegal", and so forth, I sometimes have to wonder if such information didn't simply come about by someone walking into city or county offices, and start asking questions. Sounds innocent enough. And they get themselves a "no". Might it simply be the same psychology as I got when I asked my city official my "pressing question"?
Mind you: this post is not about how the city official in my story was "stingy" or mean or something. Not at all! He was just doing his job, and giving me the "technical" answer. That's the part I wonder if, when you think of it, isn't a lot like the topic as it relates to detecting.
There's the school of thought that when it comes to public parks, school yards, etc.... that it's advisable to ask permission. Or .... at least .... inquire if there's any rules or laws, by asking a desk-bound person (afterall, you "can't be too careful" eh?). It's an automated reflex once you've read a few "scary stories", eh?
Here's an example of the psychology of asking permission, as it relates to md'ing, on public lands. For purposes of md'ing, it will assume, of course, that there is no real specific prohibition. Otherwise I feel that asking can sometimes be met with the psychology of "no one cared .... until you asked", like this:
Ok, I own a street sweeper company. We have the big municipal construction-oriented sized units (primarily asphalt and construction related work). One of the wear parts of our sweepers, is the rotating curb gutter brooms. They look like this:
After awhile, the steel wire bristles wear down & have to be replaced. We have the option of buying ready-to-install segments, or we can "stuff our own" with wire that is bought in 100 lb boxes. We've chosen to stuff our own. That means that the plastic top part is used over and and over again. However, sometimes those plastic slug parts break too, and have to be pitched.
One day, years ago, I was talking to a top person in our city's public works yard. As the official and I were shop-talking, talking about sweepers, etc..., the subject came up about these gutter brooms. He said that they buy theirs ready to install each time. That means they'd be throwing away their worn out ones each time. So I asked the fellow: "Can you set aside a few of these, next time you're doing your replacements, because we can use the plastic parts, since we stuff our own"
The public works guy replied "No, I can not put them aside for you". At first, I thought the guy must have mis-heard me (because afterall, what objection could he possibly have, if they're just going to throw them away?). So I asked again, re-phrasing it. Again, he said, "no", they can not put some aside for us. Then he went on to explain that: .... legally ... it could be construed as "bias" or "collusion" or "favoritism", if they were to be giving things to one vendor, as opposed to another.
So I said "ok then, is it ok if I show up on the day when your dumpster is slated to go out on the street, and pull a few of the slugs out myself?" Again, he said "No". And I perceived that the answer would be the same as the first question. That if he were to say "Yes", then that too is .... or could be ... perceived as some sort of "legal permission" to dumpster dive. And again, be perceived as a permission or favoritism, that could be griped about by a competitor, if ever I were to tell the competitor "the city said I can fish them out". So again, the city guy said "no".
So I shrugged my shoulders and left. A week or so later though, when I decided we needed some more of these plastic slugs, I merely found out which night the dumpsters get put on the curb outside the city corporate yard, and fished some out of their dumpster. Problem solved
So you can see how ...... the easy and/or obligatory answer is often-times "no", when in fact, no one may actually care (unless you're being a real nuisance or eye-sore or something).
Thus when I read on forums that "such & such city is off-limits" or "I found out that such & such beach is illegal", and so forth, I sometimes have to wonder if such information didn't simply come about by someone walking into city or county offices, and start asking questions. Sounds innocent enough. And they get themselves a "no". Might it simply be the same psychology as I got when I asked my city official my "pressing question"?
Mind you: this post is not about how the city official in my story was "stingy" or mean or something. Not at all! He was just doing his job, and giving me the "technical" answer. That's the part I wonder if, when you think of it, isn't a lot like the topic as it relates to detecting.
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