Any ideas on this old strange saw knife, dagger ?

[oldbattleaxe]

Purchased from a Newfoundland shop some years ago. I think I had posted this on the wrong blog site. Thank you all in advance Bill

 

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[Joe hunter]

I don’t have information but it’s awesome

 

[sprailroad]

Don't know why, but something about it just seems special.

 

[Plug N Play]

I'd file this under homemade knife.

 

[Terry Soloman]

Butchers saw knife. I saw one very similar in a Scandinavian museum that dated from the 1500s.

 

[Jason Crozier]

That is a very cool knife. I love it

 

[A2coins]

Cool knife

 

[tamrock]

I don't know, but I could believe what Terry's saying. Does look old and made with the look of early iron, because it would be pretty dang rusted if it was carbon steel. Still I wouldn't rule out it being a modern replication either.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

This knife definitely looks very old Bill, all be it very crudely made.
When I read that it came from Newfoundland, I immediately thought of L'Anse aux Meadows.

I visited this Parks Canada archeological site a number of years ago... to me your knife looks to be Norwegian/Viking in design.
It may very well have been something made for the tourist trade, but I don't think so.

Dave


"L'Anse aux Meadows, meaning bay of jellyfish, is an archaeological site on the northernmost tip of the Great Northern Peninsula on the island of Newfoundland in the Canadian province of Newfoundland and Labrador. Discovered in 1960, it is the only certain site of a Norse or Viking settlement in North America. Dating to around the year 1000, L'Anse aux Meadows is widely accepted as evidence of pre-Columbian trans-oceanic contact. It is notable for its possible connection with the attempted colony of Vinland established by Leif Erikson around the same period or, more broadly, with Norse exploration of North America. L'Anse aux Meadows is currently the only confirmed Norse site in North America. It represents the farthest-known extent of European exploration and settlement of the New World before the voyages of Christopher Columbus almost 500 years later. Historians have speculated that there were other settlement sites, or at least Norse-Native American trade contacts, in the Canadian Arctic.

In 2012, possible Norse outposts were identified in Nanook at Tanfield Valley on Baffin Island, as well as Nunguvik, Willows Island and the Avayalik Islands. Objects found at the site consisted of common everyday Norse items, including a stone oil lamp, a whetstone, a bronze fastening pin, a bone knitting needle and part of a spindle. Stone weights, which were found in building G, may have been part of a loom. The presence of the spindle and needle suggests that women as well as men inhabited the settlement. There is no way of knowing how many people lived at the site at any given time; archaeological evidence of the dwellings suggest it had the capacity of supporting 30 to 160 people. The entire population of Greenland at the time was about 2,500 meaning that the L'Anse aux Meadows settlement would be equivalent to between 10 and 20 percent of the Norse settlement on Greenland".

 

[Reanm8er]

Morning Bill,

The first thing you might want to establish is whether or not the blade is folded steel. Smiths made things of folded (Damascus Process) steel well into the twentieth century, but if it is folded that opens the door to a much older date. If it's not folded steel it's likely to be tourist or amateur production. See if you have a knife maker near you and if so take it to him. Ask if he has had any experience with folded steel and whether or not he can recognize it.

Great find and good luck!---------Phil

 

[Tnmountains]

I will say that all they had was a hammer when they forged that. I think even the saw marks were forged in. No file wok on anything I see.Wonder how it was tempered. I see no signs of damascus steel and it look like it was drawn out of a single item. But you would need Chloric acid to etch to see signs of damascus.The handle is a crude forge weld so I have no idea. Doubtful it is more than a 100 years old as the handle would rust fast.

 

[CRUSADER]

I'm going with homemade amatuer effort, not very old.

 

[Plumbata]

It's clearly a modern (not older than 20th century) "whimsical" blacksmithing project. No professional blacksmith (or apprentice for that matter) would dare make something so obnoxiously crude and unrefined. I have to wade through stuff like this all the time when searching for authentic Iron age and medieval bladed weapons for the collection, and am positively certain it is nothing more than a blacksmith's version of an absentminded doodle.

 

[cw0909]

cool knife, cant tell you the age, i think i see a crude makers mark

looks like.... t t and a T made from dots



looks like 73? and another T from dots

 

[oldbattleaxe]

I appreciate all of the opinions I am receiving. That is why I am here. In hand it has many signs of filing at the teeth and blade and not grinding. The teeth are close but not evenly cut to the same size. I cannot tell if the blade is folded or not? I do not claim to be an expert on iron but I definitely see this knife being older than the 20th century. The pitting and file marks says a lot. I agree it is crudely made, but the fellow knew how to make saw teeth. It was found at an antique shop near Saint Johns, Newfoundland. I collect vintage Civil War knives and photography and this knife intrigued me. Since there is a great deal of knowledge on this forum, is there a way to have the metal tested for age? Then I can put it to rest.

 

[Reanm8er]

Yes, It does often take hydrochloric acid to reveal the folds in a forged piece. I as well think this is probably a tourist piece or a student's piece from shop class. However, we should look from the sublime to the ridiculous in our search for the extremes of the art.

It's a given, that the art of metalwork grew and migrated in many degrees and levels across the continents. Let's just view the submissions objectively!

 

[oldbattleaxe]

What to look for when using hydrochloric acid?

 

[Reanm8er]

You'll actually see the folds, perhaps under magnification but don't breathe the fumes.

 

[sprailroad]

Well, no matter what the origin or age, it still somehow seems "special" to me. Someone had need for a dual purpose type of tool like that, and made it with what was available and at hand at whatever time and place. May not have had the knowhow or ability etc. for folded steel, but he knew what he wanted and did have enough skill to hammer and shape it into what was needed. Crudely made? well even all the great artist were students at one time. Terry stated he had seen similar at a Scandinavian museum, and being bought at a shop in Newfoundland, well, the two do seem to kind of go together, as well as being bought in a shop, the knife/saw may always have been protected somehow, (not being buried) thus no rust, corrosion etc.. Now, IS it very old, a Viking sort of thing?, or something much more recent, I don't know fella's, but their just SEEMS something special about that thing.

 

[Tnmountains]

It's a fun piece. You can kinda test the metal for tempering by running a file down the edge to see if it was quenched and hardened. Mild steel will not harden and a file will drag on it. Even a damascus blade can be soft if not tempered and annealed.
I have a small black smith shop and study and collect steel all the time. No matter when it was made it's a good conversation piece. I have made many things that are not worthy on any conversation at all ! Lol
Thanks for joining the site you will find a nice and wise community versed in many subjects .