Arizona cache

[Pieman]

I have a possible cache in Arizona. I had just recently read? "Shadow of the Sentinel" by Bob Brewer. The book gave me some answers and more questions about what might be a possible cache find. He never dug up the cache but always kept track of the area to insure nobody had dug it up. The problem I have is that it was info passed to him by someone else, so he never has actually seen it. The cache was supposedly covered up by Indians after the Peralta massacre between 1847 to 1852. Now according to Bob Brewer the Peralta story was made up by the KGC as well as other cache stories in Arizona. Now according to him the cache site is boobytrap-ed. The area is on flat ground by a dried up riverbed. I have been there once to survey the area but haven't dug yet. So my guess is that the trap might be poison unless it was a water trap when the riverbed had water in it. Now here is where I need help. How do I determin if the trap is poisonous without dying. and how do you determine if it's oil based poison or water based poison. Water based is easy enough to clean with soap and water, how do you clean oil based poisons?
What was interesting about Bob brewer's book is he had a general area where KGC caches are and my cache is in that area. So if there is a cache there then it could prove if it is the Peralta's or the KGC. Without giving allot of information away I'd like some help in how I can keep quiet if I find something, but still give History some credibility about either the Peralta's or the KGC.

 

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[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

The Indians only covered up the locations of the cache, the Peralta's knew the Indians were coming so they boarded up the rooms so to speak and where going to come back later to get the rest of the gold. The Indians knew where the hidding places where and destroyed any markings that would lead someone later to try and retrieve it. According to speculation the Peralta's men where all killed trying to escape by the Indians. The tribe was told to never dig up any treasure for fear of death. Sound like something KGC would rumor.

 

[cptbild]

Re: Arizona cache map

Pieman:
If you want to have water tested ??
No Problem!
Just take a sample down to the Maricopa County Lab.. They'll test it and tell you in about a week!
Of Course~ The test is not free !
But!
Then !
What in life is ?

 

[cptbild]

Re: Arizona cache map

PIEMAN:
I have heard a lot of talk about the KGC !
But!
I have yet to see any factual, or historical proof that there ever was such an organization!
What is your SOURCE?

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

The KGC I'm talking about is from the book I read from Brewer. I don't know if their real or not, but I would like to prove that story or the Peralta story by finding something out there.

 

[cptbild]

Re: Arizona cache map

Pieman:
A "BOOK" by Brewer!
Who is "Brewer" ?
What are his credentials
As you know?
There was a Nationally, Well Known Treasure Story Author, who admitted that he made up a story down in SO. AZ.
That had people from all over stampeding down there! :P
It was, Of course! Non-Exsistant
What is the title of his, Brewer's, BOOK!
What kind of Historical references does "Brewer" give for his information?
Why would anyone accept his mention of "The KGC", as true, w/o any facts to back him up!
AND!
If as you say, You are not sure if the Story, in Az., is true...
Why would you, OR! Anyone else want to, waste your/their time on something that may be Non-existent!

 

[MiddenMonster]

Re: Arizona cache map

What I can tell you is someone I know in fact located a Spanish treasure. After removing it all members became very ill. Almost to the point of death. They think arsenic was scattered on the stuff and all over the floor. But you said the Indians covered it and I am not aware of north American Indians using poison.

If the Spaniards used arsenic to poison the cache, how would they have retrieved it and handled it at a later date? If there was poison used on an underground cache, I doubt that it would remain active for several hundred years. Everything degrades over time, and in the presence of moisture, or soil and chemicals that could change the compostion of the original poison this process would be sped up. Paraquat is an example of this. It's a deadly herbicide, but when it comes into contact with clay it bonds tightly with it and is very difficult to separate after that, which is why it is used. If it was an oil-based poison used on a cache in a cave that remained dry and at a constant temperature, that's another story, but even that would degrade over time.

 

[FLOYD MANN]

Re: Arizona cache map

There can be NO DOUBT that the KGC ( Knights of the Golden Circle ) did ( or maybe still DO ? ) exist. The main question in most people's minds might be: "Did they REALLY put down as many BIG caches as some people think they did?"

There are MANY articles in New York newspapers of that era---that tell of KGC activities, meetings, etc. There are books written by Secret Service ( undercover agents ) that infiltrated the KGC. There are papers in college libraries, old diaries, etc. that prove their Existence. If a person is REALLY serious about wanting to learn more about the KGC: spend just a few hours reading some of the websites listed on this KGC-oriented website ( MY site ). Happy Reading !!

FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH: MY personal file on the KGC, their activities, members, etc is about 18 inches thick. I have a Second file on their "supposed" caches, locations, waybills, templates, codes, etc. THIS 2nd file is only about 6 inches thick. GOOD LUCK to all KGC researchers.

http://www.KnightsOfTheGoldenCircle-KGC.com

FLOYD MANN
FRMPINK@AOL.COM

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

Colorado
What do you mean by surveyed? Soil samples and such? The gold is already processed into bars. They only processed in this area if the gold is from the Peralta's. If it's KGC then it was a place that was dug to hide the bars. What would they use as a metal door in the 1800's?
So a good two box unit should have plenty of metal to pick up on even if the soil is mineral rich and giving out false readings right? Metal detecting is a new art I'm trying to learn also.

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

Sounds like you have the whole setup of expensive equipment. I'm assuming that the survey fee is up front cash, just in case there is nothing to find. So if I can rent a two box detector that should pinpoint the X marks the spot to dig. Still haven't found out if anyone rents detectors in Phoenix. I thought of renting a GPR, but would need a tech to work it correctly.

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

Thanks for the help offers, a few of you are well experienced hunters. You have given me good suggestions in what equipment to try on my next search, so I'll definitely use your knowledge to try and acquire the cache. Now that I have the equipment in mind, I need help on the legal issue that Arizona has regarding digging up dirt to find treasure. I do not want to end up with only 15 min of fame on a news story, I'd rather have the money. I'm not going to tell, but if someone catches me I want my bases covered. Again thanks for the wonderful help. Of course I'll swear I didn't find anything but dirt.

 

[tammahawk]

Re: Arizona cache map

you may have something with that map but i dont believe its the mine or mine cache maybee a cache meant for transport the indians buried and caught them on the way out i believe, i have a picture of the actual mine or spot ive had it for about 2 years now just a matter of money to go to arizona, question is for me is my spot the beggining or the end, it could be where the stones were made and then moved thats why noone has found it, so either its the alpha or omega, anyway good luck on your adventure,tammahawk

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

I never could find a smelter close by, all I found was a possible arrastra to crush and separate the gold.The smelter might have been disassembled when they were trying to cover everything up.

 

[tammahawk]

Re: Arizona cache map

by your description its on a flat, near a river that doest sound like a good geologic spot to mine gold, placier gold maybee but i never heard of placier gold in arizona, sounds like the indians ambushed them on the way out, and took the gold and buried it, theres stories about the utinah indians up in utah ambushing wagon trains and burying the gold where the ambush occured, gold is heavy, the least amount of work would be to bury it on site and get rid of any surface evidence, sure is nice to have a map though, neat to see someone get a break like that, tammahawk

 

[Pieman]

Re: Arizona cache map

Your right it is not a logical place for a gold vein to be mined. They didn't mine the gold there, I think it was crushed and separated there, then smelted. I still need some help on claims from BLM. If the property does not have a claim on it then I am going to put one on it. But in filling out the paperwork should I put mining claim, or the other type of claim. All I'm going to do is dig were the machine goes ding-ding-ding. I know there is a historical act on treasures, but what about the gold.

 

[tammahawk]

Re: Arizona cache map

well pieman i dont think it works like your thinkin, i talked to a guy a year or 2 ago that got permits to hunt there, and he said it was a lot of money and a lot of time and effort, you wont get a permit overnight and it could take a year or a few years depending, your dealin with the government, the other thing they give you a permit for an area of your choice but its limited range so make sure your close to your target, the other thing its time limited, far as your keep goes wooo talk to a lawyer the government will stael everything if your not careful, also i dont think its gives you any claim just permission, something to think about if someone sees you, you read bob's book remember the helocopter chapter hes probably not lying about that, another thing to think about, thats why most of these guys says shhhhhhhhh keep it to yourself and they are probably right, read the victorio peak story the government, took a guys legal claim and made a military base and he got robbed, once they did that he had no access, and the government removed the treasure that was left, also look at the guy who found the calvaly gold bars, he asked for a percentage form the government and they said bring us to it 1st he said no way, so their at a stand off, be wise, sometimes silence is golden if you get my meaning, tammahawk

 

[Hitech-Hunter]

The area in question wouldn't happen to be near Tumacacori would it? The forest service
there will give you a permit. Takes about 30 days if they have nothing else pressing. No
explosives are allowed and they will check in on you from time to time using undercover agents
as well as regular BLM officers.

They want to know what's going on and they really don't beleive in any treasures at all.
Not a single person that I ever spoke to in the BLM in any regard thinks there is anything
out there except rocks and cactus. Sort of an amazing state of mind since they have
the broken down missions from hundreds of years ago all over Southern Arizona. And
everyone knows that there was no place to hide anything good unless it was in the ground
in those times.

Drug smugglers use the tunnels that are present in Southern Arizona to stay the night and hide.
Found many a "Potato Sack" in my time. Once tunnel was used so much it looked like a
potato sack changing station to get a new one to continue the mule trek into the USA.
There had to be 100+ sacks made into shirts/packs laying around with old twine rope.

I wanted to know where the area you are speaking of is since I have (and still am) looking to
uncover the Virgin Treasure. There is no doubt that it either existed or still exists from the
items that others have found, what I have seen and witnessed myself, and the fact that
particular areas with "doorways" are still closed.

........Hitech

 

[Las Vegas Bob]

Re: Arizona cache map

by your description its on a flat, near a river that doest sound like a good geologic spot to mine gold, placier gold maybee but i never heard of placier gold in arizona,

Just for your info tammahawk there is plenty of placer gold to be found in Arizona. Places like Turkey creek,? Lynx creek, Stanton along several dozen other areas where you can MD for nuggets.................................. 8)?

 

[cptbil]

HiTech-Hunter:
You're just a little late !
The "Virgin of Guadalupe" is and has been, the location anyway, Found!
Get and read "Enigma At Tumacacori Arizona"
Written by, a friend of mine:
Gary Don Oliver... ISBN 0-9633813-0-X
The book is about 1/2 photos!
Or!
Get the topo map: "Tubac, Ariz. " , scale of...1:24,000
Look for "Camp Loco" (The "Mine of the Virgin of Guadalupe") just slightly north ('bout 4 miles) of "Peck Canyon"!
But!
Don't despair !
There are, as you know, several more mines!
I have the location of The Pure Conception Mine!
I just need a Band of Rugged Treasure Hunters ..to help me to recover it!
But!
Again Don't despair!
There are still the San Ramon and the Opata Mines, in the area!
The San Ramon is located ...
But!
If you're really interested, contact me and we'll get schedule! a trip, if we can find two other
RUGGED Dedicated TH'ers!
Who aren't afraid to use their six shooters![/b] :P

 

[Dirtfishin]

CptBill,

Is that the one where the river rained gold?? and a pot of gold was buried there collected openly from the river bed above the small falls or cut, but the guys who buried it were killed by the indians, because it was a sacred site to them and the guys had betrayed the indians into tell them where it was in first place?

I think I saw a special on this a LONG time ago with someone who was tracking it...? and they found the site to a tee, but when they dug they only found the pot, no gold and a railroad tie and remenants of a old buried campfire...

It seems they were following the leads of a previous treasure hunter who claimed to have never found it, but they sumized that he DID actually find it based on what they dug up. (I guess he forgot to tell that part of it) ( Shhhh be berry berry quiet were huntin wabbits here)? ?:P

Does that story sound familiar or ever see the special?

Kat