Back to the Nature Park - Some Older Finds!

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Back to the 'Nature Park' - Some Older Finds!


I headed back to a park for 3hrs today that I've been hunting every Sunday morning for the past month. This is a park which very few children play in except for in winter to go tobogganing here. I'm finding a a few relics left over from the farm that was here back in the late 1800's, as well as, some more modern finds. I am gridding the park carefully as not to leave any ground uncovered. I feel strongly that there has to be a silver coin or a ring hiding somewhere here, this is what keeps me coming back!

Finds for the day ...

Broken Horseshoe, Brass Buckle w/Heart, Suspender Clip, a 'Whatsit' piece , a 1940, '43 & '67 Penny + $2.36 in coinage!

Thanks for looking and best of luck to you,
Dave

 

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[ANTIQUARIAN]

Nice Buckle and pics !

Thanks H!
Dave

 

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[ANTIQUARIAN]

Just thought you all might be interested in seeing the 'Heart Buckle' and the 'Rifle Sight' after 12 hours in the tumbler!

Thanks again to everyone who read and posted regarding my finds!

Dave

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Antiquarian wrote:
> I just discovered this about the 'Heart Buckle' ...

"Although it's often listed as a horse harness buckle, this heart-embossed item is really a buckle shield, made to fit on top of the actual buckle.
Recent finds suggest that some of these harness buckle shields were in use in Civil War time. However, they were a civilian item, not military issue.
There is generally no direct evidence (mfgr.'s marks, etc.) which can be used to prove that they are CW or postwar.

Antiquarian, here is solid proof that the "heart buckle" is strictly from the 1890s and later. Its specific form (but without a heart or other emblem on it) was invented and patented in 1892 by Mr. R.A. Wooding. See the diagram (below) from Mr. Wooding's US Patent for it, dated January 12, 1892, US Patent #466,959. No offense intended, but your info-source is incorrect that "some of these harness buckle shields were in use in Civil War time."

I should mention, there is a similar-looking version which is thick solid-cast brass, that was invented and patented in 1879... and thus clearly is also not from the civil war era. I'll include a photo of one with the Dec. 16, 1879 Patent date marked on its back.

I've posted this info (with proof) to protect this forum's readers from Ebay sellers who advertise these horseharness buckle shields as being a "Confederate blanket-roll buckle." They absolutely are not Confederate, not civil war, and not a Military-issue relic.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Antiquarian wrote:
> I just discovered this about the 'Heart Buckle' ...

"Although it's often listed as a horse harness buckle, this heart-embossed item is really a buckle shield, made to fit on top of the actual buckle.
Recent finds suggest that some of these harness buckle shields were in use in Civil War time. However, they were a civilian item, not military issue.
There is generally no direct evidence (mfgr.'s marks, etc.) which can be used to prove that they are CW or postwar.

Antiquarian, here is solid proof that the "heart buckle" is strictly from the 1890s and later. Its specific form (but without a heart or other emblem on it) was invented and patented in 1892 by Mr. R.A. Wooding. See the diagram (below) from Mr. Wooding's US Patent for it, dated January 12, 1892, US Patent #466,959. No offense intended, but your info-source is incorrect that "some of these harness buckle shields were in use in Civil War time."

I should mention, there is a similar-looking version which is thick solid-cast brass, that was invented and patented in 1879... and thus clearly is also not from the civil war era. I'll include a photo of one with the Dec. 16, 1879 Patent date marked on its back.

I've posted this info (with proof) to protect this forum's readers from Ebay sellers who advertise these horseharness buckle shields as being a "Confederate blanket-roll buckle." They absolutely are not Confederate, not civil war, and not a Military-issue relic.

Thank you so much for this information CBG!
This just goes to prove that we shouldn't believe it just because we find it posted on the internet!

The truth is I 'Googled' the buckles description and it led me to a quote I found here on Tnet from 2008!
Dave

 

[david680]

Thanks for your input papa . . . how old would that make the 'rifle sight' then?
Dave

I don't think they quit making the '03 until after WWII. Springfield collectors are very particular and could probably provide a fairly accurate date range. Not saying its a '03, I recognized it as a rifle sight, no opinion otherwise.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

You're welcome. Here's some additional info (with photos) about the horseharness buckle-shields (also called a buckle-cover). Charlie Harris wrote an article about them in American Digger magazine a few years ago. I'll post a scan of that article, below. Because Mr. Wooding's 1892 US Patent diagram had not yet come to light in the relic-digging-&-collecting community, Charlie did not say in the article that they are not from the civil war era. But now we have solid proof about their actual time-period.

I wonder how many viewers here have realized that you found yours in the Ontario Canada area... even though the photo shows it sitting next to the big batch of Canadian coins you dug along with it. It must have been lost by some very far-ranging Confederate Cavalry raiders.

 

[time machine]

Antiquarian I'm just south of the boarder from you in central N.y. and I also have found a saddle heart buckle cover for a bed roll.(Confederate) ?
I've also have researched this buckle cover and have come to the same conclusion as you it's almost impossible to say it's a Civil War era relic.
Antiquarian all I can say to the people who buy these relics is Buyers Beware !

Thanks, Time Machine.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

I don't think they quit making the '03 until after WWII. Springfield collectors are very particular and could probably provide a fairly accurate date range. Not saying its a '03, I recognized it as a rifle sight, no opinion otherwise.

Thanks very much for your help on dating the rifle sight David, being from Canada I find very little in the way of gun parts here unlike you guys in the States. So whenever a bullet, musket ball, shell casing or rifle sight come to the surface it's always of great interest to me. this is why I deffer to you guys in the US, as you're definitely the experts when it comes to firearms!

Best of luck to you,
Dave

You're welcome. Here's some additional info (with photos) about the horseharness buckle-shields (also called a buckle-cover). Charlie Harris wrote an article about them in American Digger magazine a few years ago. I'll post a scan of that article, below. Because Mr. Wooding's 1892 US Patent diagram had not yet come to light in the relic-digging-&-collecting community, Charlie did not say in the article that they are not from the civil war era. But now we have solid proof about their actual time-period.

I wonder how many viewers here have realized that you found yours in the Ontario Canada area... even though the photo shows it sitting next to the big batch of Canadian coins you dug along with it. It must have been lost by some very far-ranging Confederate Cavalry raiders.

Thanks very much for this article CBG, it was very interesting reading.
I'm always amazed at your knowledge and the insight you add to the members posted finds here on Tnet ... you truly make Tnet a more reliable resource for accurate information!
Dave

Antiquarian I'm just south of the boarder from you in central N.y. and I also have found a saddle heart buckle cover for a bed roll.(Confederate) ?
I've also have researched this buckle cover and have come to the same conclusion as you it's almost impossible to say it's a Civil War era relic.
Antiquarian all I can say to the people who buy these relics is Buyers Beware !

Thanks, Time Machine.

I completely agree with you TM, I didn't believe for one minute that this piece was CW related! Through research of my own, I found the name of the original land owner of the property in the 1850's, as well as the last owner of the property who was of considerable means. He was literally the man who built the city I live in when he merged his carriage / automobile factory with General Motors in 1918.

See below ...

"The McLaughlin automobile company began life in 1876 as the McLaughlin Carriage Company, a blacksmith's shop in the village of Enniskillen, located 12 mi northeast of Oshawa, Ontario, Canada. The company began making horse-drawn carriages in the mid-19th Century, moving to Oshawa, Ontario in 1876. The most successful of their time, producing more than 25,000 carriages a year, the company grossed $1,000,000.00 1898 incorporated as the McLaughlin Carriage Company of Canada Limited. in 1901. By 1915, the company was making one carriage every ten minutes. Under the guidance of "Colonel" Sam McLaughlin as President in 1907, the company began the manufacture of automobiles, eventually forming an alliance for 15 years with the Exchange of $500,000.00 of Buick stock for $500.000.00 of McLaughlin Stock with William C. Durant. Durant had acquired the Buick Motor Company that later would become General Motors Company, a holding company. During their first few years of operation, the automobiles were known as "McLaughlins". The name was changed to "McLaughlin-Buick" when sales dropped, and returned to "McLaughlin" until 1915 when Chevrolet Motor Company of Canada Limited, owned by McLaughlin, merged both his companies to become General Motors of Canada Limited and allied in 1919 with the Corporation obtaining $10,000,000.00 to build Walkerville plant an establish Canadian Products.. The "McLaughlin" name was eventually dropped altogether, leaving the "Buick" marque still in use today. Until 1914, the cars were finished with the same paints and varnishes used on carriages. This meant each vehicle required up to fifteen coats of paint. McLauglin revolutionized the industry with their painting process.

In 1918, Sam was Director and Vice-President of General Motors Corporation. The same year he merged the McLaughlin Car Company of Canada and the Chevrolet Car Company of Canada to call it General Motors Car Company of Canada Limited, Sam McLaughlin would go on to be General Motors Vice President in 1918 when Chevrolet owned 54.6% of General Motors stock of $90,000,000.00 Chevrolet was incorporated in the USA and General Motors of Canada was incorporated when McLaughlin as a large shareholder of General Motors stock allowed it to happen as he had no sons. General Motors Corporation Gave the McLaughlins GM Stocks to become Proprietors of the Canadian Plant as an article in the Financial Post September 23, 1933 page 9 states. McLaughlin continued to run the company as chairman of the board of General Motors of Canada, in addition to being vice-president and director of the indirect parent company. He continued to be Vice President and Executive Director to his death".


Thanks again for your post and best of luck to you,
Dave