Barry Storm's Mr. X

[Steamboat]

In Barry Storm's book "Thunder god's Gold" He says while he was trying to locate the LDM that someone that left small footprints followed him and even tried to shoot him. Barry said Adolph Ruth had small feet but his shoes were never found. Barry felt this "Mr. X" killed Adolph Ruth and was wearing his shoes.
Later in the book Barry indicated someone had been arrested but gave no details.
For those of you who know a lot more about this than I do, can you give more information on this subject.
While I am at it, what is your opinion of "Thunder god's Gold" ?

 

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[Al D]

Barry Storm (not his real name) was a story teller

 

[azdave35]

his initials are B.S. that should explain it all...lol

 

[Idahodutch]

Steamboat,
I remember something about that, and it wouldn’t surprise me if it is based on actual events.... lots of stories of folks feeling like being watched or followed.
Those mountains used to be a lot more remote.
Seeing fresh footprints ...... especially if seemingly connected to strang late night sounds, can get the best of us going

Even now, with so much recreational hiking and such, it is still troubling to have unexplained footprints appearing in a way that seems suspicious.

Good question.... could be someone was watching though

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Barry Storm, John Clymenson, did not come to Arizona until January 5, 1937, six years after the Adolph Ruth death. He worked in Phoenix at odd jobs and as a reporter. Storm lived in South Phoenix when he met Barry Goldwater. The two went in the Superstitions together and in 1939 Storm published his first book, Trail of the Lost Dutchman with Goldwaters photos and financing. In April of 1942 Storm leased all of Abe Reid's mining claims in Gila County. . Two months later he filed claim on a copper deposit near Four Peaks. In 1943 he enlisted in the military during WWII. In 1945 he wrote his famous book, Thunder Gods Gold.

 

[Cubfan64]

I know Bill Barkley had his own issues to deal with and he's probably not the most reliable source, but didn't he claim he saw Barry Storm making some of those markings on Black Top Mesa? I enjoyed "Thunder God's Gold" as a story, but felt an awful lot of embelishment in it

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I know Bill Barkley had his own issues to deal with and he's probably not the most reliable source, but didn't he claim he saw Barry Storm making some of those markings on Black Top Mesa? I enjoyed "Thunder God's Gold" as a story, but felt an awful lot of embelishment in it

Just my opinion, but it seems to me that all those guys distrusted each other, backstabbed, told lies about each other...but I remember Tom K. thought Storm was overly paranoid, and that kinda makes sense reading the passages about Mr. Smallfoot sneaking about at night and taking potshots in Storm's direction. We've all been shot at and it does happen, but I think you're spot-on re: "Embellishment".

I have no doubt that Brownie and Bill Barkley were "keeping tabs" on what was going on out there, if for no other reason to look after Tex and Bill's financial interest (cattle). Even today, cattlemen know what's going on all over their range as it doesn't take more than the loss of a few cows to ruin your life. At any rate, it's pretty obvious Storm is talking about Brownie as "Mr. X".

I also remembered something about Brownie knowing Storm was alluding to him re: Mr. X/Smallfoot. I did a quick search over on the other channel and saw that Greg had posted it back in 2006. Greg had asked Brownie about it in an interview, and Brownie had said there was no love lost between them and that Storm was (paraphrasing) engaging in a little character assassination against him.

It's nothing more than early Dutch Hunter drama, IMHO...seems some things never change


PS: I had never seen Brownie in person and never realized how small and wiry he was...I was looking for this pic earlier and here it is:



This is from when the Italian plane sunk in Lake Roosevelt.

 

[wrmickel1]

I know Bill Barkley had his own issues to deal with and he's probably not the most reliable source, but didn't he claim he saw Barry Storm making some of those markings on Black Top Mesa? I enjoyed "Thunder God's Gold" as a story, but felt an awful lot of embelishment in it

Well if Barry found them as he said. Bill would have still claimed Barry made them. It’s know different then claiming Travis made his Maps.

Theirs always a reason for Madness

babymick1

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Mick, you're absolutely right: Bill Barkley DID see Storm carving something on BTM (He did, just maybe not what you might think) and Travis did make those stone maps.

 

[azdave35]

Well if Barry found them as he said. Bill would have still claimed Barry made them. It’s know different then claiming Travis made his Maps.

Theirs always a reason for Madness

babymick1

mick...my old buddy carrol ingle knew barry ..he said he was full of doo=doo...he said barney bernard was in the same category

 

[azdave35]

Well if Barry found them as he said. Bill would have still claimed Barry made them. It’s know different then claiming Travis made his Maps.

Theirs always a reason for Madness

babymick1

p.s. travis carved the stone maps that are in the museum ..everyone around here knows that to be true

 

[wrmickel1]

p.s. travis carved the stone maps that are in the museum ..everyone around here knows that to be true

Yeah that’s the Story I keep hearing but not one shred of evidence posted ever to prove it. All that common knowledge around there just going to waste.

babymick1

 

[azdave35]

Yeah that’s the Story I keep hearing but not one shred of evidence posted ever to prove it. All that common knowledge around there just going to waste.

babymick1

mick..i stand corrected...those stone maps aren't completely worthless....they are obviously good for finding some things...like gold painted 2x4's...and gold painted brass nuggets

 

[Matthew Roberts]

When Barry Storm was promoting his first books he took some people out to a camp west of Weavers Needle. At night around the campfire he told the group they were sitting on the very spot where Waltz once had his camp. Then Storm proceeded to stir a stick around in the dirt while he was talking and suddenly stopped. Reaching down he picked something out of the dirt and said,...well look at this. And in his hand was a German coin with the date 1870 on it. His friends of course were duly awe struck and all became Barry Storm fans and avid Dutchman believers.

 

[Cubfan64]

When Barry Storm was promoting his first books he took some people out to a camp west of Weavers Needle. At night around the campfire he told the group they were sitting on the very spot where Waltz once had his camp. Then Storm proceeded to stir a stick around in the dirt while he was talking and suddenly stopped. Reaching down he picked something out of the dirt and said,...well look at this. And in his hand was a German coin with the date 1870 on it. His friends of course were duly awe struck and all became Barry Storm fans and avid Dutchman believers.

I guess if you want to believe bad enough, you'll believe anything :P

 

[Al D]

When Barry Storm was promoting his first books he took some people out to a camp west of Weavers Needle. At night around the campfire he told the group they were sitting on the very spot where Waltz once had his camp. Then Storm proceeded to stir a stick around in the dirt while he was talking and suddenly stopped. Reaching down he picked something out of the dirt and said,...well look at this. And in his hand was a German coin with the date 1870 on it. His friends of course were duly awe struck and all became Barry Storm fans and avid Dutchman believers.

Wasn’t he trying to milk investment money for a movie or something like that? That is what I recall, anyway, it is another example of why it is impossible to get at the truth, seems like the only info circulated is the BS put forth by con men.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Tom K. did write about Storm using that same trick during production/scouting for the Glen Ford movie, if I recall correctly.

I think what got Storm into trouble the most is he took everyone else's info and harped it to the press and in his books. I think the reason Linesba even needed armed guards in the first place up at the Walker Claims, is that Storm and Upson dropped a dime on Walker with the AP, the day after Walker filed his claims...if that's what happened, it was a seriously dirty trick...that story ran in the papers for almost a year.

Storm later claimed in Thunder God's Gold that he had found the "Old Peralta Mine" first, but was too busy following his "Peralta Treasure Trail" to follow up. It's interesting how his story changes from the 27 March 1940 article (he doesn't mention he found it first or any claim jumping), to his 1945 book, which had all the skullduggery as to who actually found it first.

Burbridge seems a bit more truthful in his book, relating that he had asked Brownie about the old mines, and Brownie told him he thought he had first seen them in 1912.

I think what happened is that Walker filed on some old tunnels that were right on top of where Storm was looking...so Storm and Upson go to the AP in California, with the "Unbelievable" claim that there was dump laying around up there worth hundreds per ton...anyone would need armed guards on that site after that story went national...meanwhile Storm hustles back to AZ and files claims above and below Walker. Then he writes about it in his book like the other guy was the scoundrel. He treated many other locals the same way.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Wasn’t he trying to milk investment money for a movie or something like that? That is what I recall, anyway, it is another example of why it is impossible to get at the truth, seems like the only info circulated is the BS put forth by con men.

Yes I believe you may be right Alan, Storm was often looking for a grubstake for his books and mining ventures.
Its not impossible to get to the truth, you just have to determine who had a motive for stretching a tale and who had nothing to gain by telling what they know. Anyone selling books has their main interest in selling as many books as possible and thats where the truth gets blurred with a good story. Many Dutchman books contain a kernel of fact along with a heaping helping of a good old yarn. The dutch hunter just starting out today has a definite disadvantage to the old timers because they never had the opportunity to meet and talk directly with those closest to the story and events surrounding Waltz and his mine.

Example: Hilda Kramer. She was the daughter of Alexander Steinegger, her mother was Caroline Thomas the sister of Emil Thomas the husband of Julia Thomas. Hilda was born in Phoenix in 1890 and grew up and went to school with Brownie Holmes. Hildas father employed Waltz to supply produce to his hotel and restaurant in Phoenix and was in business with Emil and Julia Thomas in their restaurant business. Waltz, through Steinegger, also supplied Julia and Emil with produce. Hilda knew all these people personally, Julia Thomas, Rhinehart and Hermann Petrasch, the Holmes family Dick and Brownie and knew the details and relationships of all these people to each other. In 1979 Dave Russell and I taped Hildas remembrances of all these people and what she remembered about her fathers dealing with Waltz.
This was pure unfiltered history. Hilda was not selling books or notoriety. She talked openly and truthfully and gave the accurate account of what she lived through and remembered. She had no reason to embellish anything.

You cant do that any more, those days and those people are gone.

 

[Cubfan64]

Yes I believe you may be right Alan, Storm was often looking for a grubstake for his books and mining ventures.
Its not impossible to get to the truth, you just have to determine who had a motive for stretching a tale and who had nothing to gain by telling what they know. Anyone selling books has their main interest in selling as many books as possible and thats where the truth gets blurred with a good story. Many Dutchman books contain a kernel of fact along with a heaping helping of a good old yarn. The dutch hunter just starting out today has a definite disadvantage to the old timers because they never had the opportunity to meet and talk directly with those closest to the story and events surrounding Waltz and his mine.

Example: Hilda Kramer. She was the daughter of Alexander Steinegger, her mother was Caroline Thomas the sister of Emil Thomas the husband of Julia Thomas. Hilda was born in Phoenix in 1890 and grew up and went to school with Brownie Holmes. Hildas father employed Waltz to supply produce to his hotel and restaurant in Phoenix and was in business with Emil and Julia Thomas in their restaurant business. Waltz, through Steinegger, also supplied Julia and Emil with produce. Hilda knew all these people personally, Julia Thomas, Rhinehart and Hermann Petrasch, the Holmes family Dick and Brownie and knew the details and relationships of all these people to each other. In 1979 Dave Russell and I taped Hildas remembrances of all these people and what she remembered about her fathers dealing with Waltz.
This was pure unfiltered history. Hilda was not selling books or notoriety. She talked openly and truthfully and gave the accurate account of what she lived through and remembered. She had no reason to embellish anything.

You cant do that any more, those days and those people are gone.

And even that next generation with third-hand knowledge and stories are passing on daily

 

[azdave35]

mick...you need to go back to school..you are not comprehending what has been written...there is a mountain the size of mount Everest of evidence proving the stone maps are bogus ...including eye witness's ...what you dont have is a single shred of proof that they are the real deal...except some gold painted 2x4's and brass nuggets...if you have tangible proof the doorstops are real and actually lead to something except heartache and misery and the poorhouse then by all means lets have it...you have been spouting off for years the doorstops are some kind of map and lead to something....time to put up or shut up.....my side has already presented massive evidence they are bogus..now it's your turn..prove to us they are real and lead to something.. ..i will tell you this and you can draw your own conclusions...my old buddy carrol ingle told me years ago the stone maps were phony and not to waste a second of time pursuing them....why would he know?...think about this...carrol and travis were both born about the same year...they were very close to the same age...they were both from texas..the same part of texas...carrol got here in 1948....in 1948 travis was very active in the supers....also carrol's name was found in travis's papers when they went through his storage shed...chew on that for a while