Bills introduced to downsize Forest Service/BLM, sell off land. Gag orders on depts.

[deducer]

Apparently the bizarre vision to make America great again includes putting a gag order on the EPA, FDA, National Park Services and US Dept of Agriculture (which is responsible for the Superstitions). All of these departments whose functions are to protect our well-beings, are now unable to communicate with the public, such as via twitter.

Also two bills have just been introduced. One, H.R. 622 is to terminate the law-enforcement function of the Forest Service and BLM, and turn that over to the local sheriff departments, most of which are completely unable to deal with the additional burden of overlooking millions of acres.

The other bill, H.R. 621 seeks to make 3.3 million acres of Federal land available for private purchase including to oil/mining companies. Should those land be sold, they will become off-limits to visitors, hikers, and treasure-hunters.

Oil and Drilling rights in the Chaco Canyon region of New Mexico which has a big number of archaeological sites, including Indian ruins have been sold for $3 million. The purchase includes 843 acres which is now off-limits to hikers and treasure hunters.

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

They will have to hire "Private" Security or Tribal Security Forces...

 

[rodoconnor]

Anytime the size and scope of the function of BLM,FS, and the EPA are reduced is a WONDERFUL thing. They do not exist to protect our well being. They are part of an out of control , abusive and bloated bureaucracy . These agencies were not conceived to be law enforcement.

 

[jeff of pa]

Anytime the size and scope of the function of BLM,FS, and the EPA are reduced is a WONDERFUL thing. They do not exist to protect our well being. They are part of an out of control , abusive and bloated bureaucracy . These agencies were not conceived to be law enforcement.

I agree. local sheriff departments, will not be up everyone's Butts 24-7 .
if they don't get called people will be able to enjoy.

and if anything,
the sell off may open more Land to treasure hunting depending on the purchasers.

Unfortunately these Lands won't be in my areas , but I'm still hoping for the Best
results of Less Government control over lands designated as "Public"

as for the Gag Order. I believe that may be Off Topic POLITICAL & referring to
Public officials making Political Remarks like that Secret Service agent.
Again though Off Topic Political & That part Not to be discussed here

discussing the land parts may be ok

 

[Oroblanco]

Apparently the bizarre vision to make America great again includes putting a gag order on the EPA, FDA, National Park Services and US Dept of Agriculture (which is responsible for the Superstitions). All of these departments whose functions are to protect our well-beings, are now unable to communicate with the public, such as via twitter.

Also two bills have just been introduced. One, H.R. 622 is to terminate the law-enforcement function of the Forest Service and BLM, and turn that over to the local sheriff departments, most of which are completely unable to deal with the additional burden of overlooking millions of acres.

The other bill, H.R. 621 seeks to make 3.3 million acres of Federal land available for private purchase including to oil/mining companies. Should those land be sold, they will become off-limits to visitors, hikers, and treasure-hunters.

Oil and Drilling rights in the Chaco Canyon region of New Mexico which has a big number of archaeological sites, including Indian ruins have been sold for $3 million. The purchase includes 843 acres which is now off-limits to hikers and treasure hunters.

Thanks amigo for bringing this to our attention. To anyone that thinks this is a bright idea, just think how you might feel if that land is sold to Red China or Saudi Arabia. And YES they are considering them as among the top potential buyers, don't kid yourself. If you like having to beg landowners (especially corporate landowners) for permission to go on the land, then this is a good thing for you but you can already enjoy asking private property owners for permission. The 1872 Mining Law is the only law on the books that gives we the people the RIGHT to enter on to the public lands, so if this goes through we can all pretty much forget about prospecting and treasure hunting unless you are an in-law of a corporate magnate.

No comment on the gag order due to the risk of it getting 'political' but it IS a very dark and disturbing act by a new government.
Thanks again Deducer, I now have some angry emails to write, and maybe some follow up phone calls as well.

I would also like to direct everyone to this organization which has been fighting the good fight, of course if it is against the rules to post this link please delete or let me know and I will remove it.


Public Lands For The People

 

[Albertaclipper]

Here in Alberta, Oil & Gas Companies, most of them do not get to own land. They lease it. For example, land here in Alberta is pretty much described as a grid system, broken into townships that are parcels of 36 sections, each section is measured as one mile x one mile,and it is then interpreted as Legal Land Descriptions. My point is, that here, on a forty acre plot, an oil & gas company can come in, if permitted, with their interests of drilling and producing, but they do not get to own the whole forty acres, they only get to lease that tiny little bit of land on that forty acres that they are going to put a pump jack on, or a processing facility, and pay royalties to the land owner. The one caveat of this, is that the oil & gas company will own the resources under the surface, nothing above but only their equipment. If they do not exploit the resources under the surface in a timely manner, or just sit on it, they lose it. ( Oil & Gas Companies do own land here, but it typically isn't vast land masses, mostly acreages)

Pump jacks and the average facility here only take up an acre or two....depending on the level of processing, could be another acre or more. The oil & gas companies here maintain their lease roads into their leases and we can access those lease roads to get onto adjacent lands if needed, they cannot block us as they do not own surface rights.

How is it different in the U.S.A. ? Do the oil & gas companies there get to own surface as well as below surface? If they are able to own land, isn't that basically hoarding/wasting land as exploration and producing on a parcel of land is so very minuscule for land usage?

I only ask in spirit of this thread, and do not agree with the above proposed bills. Also, I feel bad for your local law enforcement if they are required to take care of the BLM's and Forest Service on top of protecting their towns or counties. Who or how does that get paid for? Better yet, if they spread something that it is already thin,do they not understand that they just making it invisible! Talk about easy exploitation!!! Not good......If the above is true, it makes me very sad that land that has archaeological sites, including Indian ruins is able to be for sale or has been sold, and that nothing educational will be exploited from it, only industrial monetary gains.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It becomes "State Land", I reckon... watching what happens to the Shenandoah National Park & Blue Ridge Parkway; AT is "State" or "Private". Wife & I have been on the "AT" in Bedford County, Amherst County, & Nelson County. NICE & off the "beaten paths"...

 

[Oroblanco]

It becomes "State Land", I reckon... watching what happens to the Shenandoah National Park & Blue Ridge Parkway; AT is "State" or "Private". Wife & I have been on the "AT" in Bedford County, Amherst County, & Nelson County. NICE & off the "beaten paths"...

Enjoy it while you still can, before it is sold off into new housing developments. Have seen several states sell off state lands for that purpose. Don't think the states will preserve the lands as they are, when they can make a fast buck.

 

[Albertaclipper]

Enjoy it while you still can, before it is sold off into new housing developments. Have seen several states sell off state lands for that purpose. Don't think the states will preserve the lands as they are, when they can make a fast buck.

Very sad conundrum in the aspect of raising funds, but some things need to be off limits, no matter what, why can't the elected ever see that?

 

[deducer]

I agree. local sheriff departments, will not be up everyone's Butts 24-7 .
if they don't get called people will be able to enjoy.

and if anything,
the sell off may open more Land to treasure hunting depending on the purchasers.

Unfortunately these Lands won't be in my areas , but I'm still hoping for the Best
results of Less Government control over lands designated as "Public"

as for the Gag Order. I believe that may be Off Topic POLITICAL & referring to
Public officials making Political Remarks like that Secret Service agent.
Again though Off Topic Political & That part Not to be discussed here

discussing the land parts may be ok

Jeff,

The selling off of the land to oil or mining companies is not for your benefit, or the benefit of everyday Americans.

If it gets sold to oil or mining companies, what do you think is going to happen if you get caught trespassing on their land?

 

[Azquester]

Jeff,

The selling off of the land to oil or mining companies is not for your benefit, or the benefit of everyday Americans.

If it gets sold to oil or mining companies, what do you think is going to happen if you get caught trespassing on their land?

Most available land for mineral lease in Arizona is already bought up by large mining companies not based in the USA. I would rather have USA companies have a hand at buying the leases for such as compared to foreign governments. We are talking mining / mineral leases as you can't acquire the land from the feds anymore just the leases. Which makes them responsible for any accidents or safety of anyone on that land as per laws passed at least in Arizona. I found that out the hard way once I gave up my mineral lease and was told I was going to be held liable for anyone hurt on that land or for any contamination of the soils from my digging for the rest of my life!

That's a pretty tall order.


I could see large mining companies not allowing anyone on the land as the laws on the books are written to make them the responsible parties for the General Public once leases are in place. Those are state laws right now not feds.

It doesn't mean you wont be able to ask the leaser if you can go there. Maybe sign a waiver?

 

[UncleMatt]

I don't like the way things are going either Deducer! But I have to say here, I have never one time run into a Forest Ranger where I prospect and treasure hunt. If I did I would be shocked! The only way I figure I will ever find anything is if it is in areas so remote and hard to get to that ten thousand people haven't already gotten there first. Hell, I have never even run into another person out there, let alone Forestry service personnel.

 

[sdcfia]

I don't like the way things are going either Deducer! But I have to say here, I have never one time run into a Forest Ranger where I prospect and treasure hunt. If I did I would be shocked! The only way I figure I will ever find anything is if it is in areas so remote and hard to get to that ten thousand people haven't already gotten there first. Hell, I have never even run into another person out there, let alone Forestry service personnel.

You usually see these guys during hunting seasons in frequently-used sectors, in wood-cutting zones, or around campgrounds and cultural sites. You won't have to be concerned unless you happen to locate something of value. Then you'll have decisions to make.

 

[Azquester]

I never run into anyone either. Once I was at my Treasure site and heard some horses right above me about fifty feet away. There were three people on horse back with dogs. I just laid down, didn't move, and they never knew I was there including the dogs. That was probably fifteen years ago and I've been there every year multiple times since with no one ever being there. The grass is so tall now horses are not a good travel medium up there. You can't see the ground so you trip a lot not knowing if your stepping on a snake. It's funny. When I first started going there it was plush trees and plants, no grass, then we went through a great drought and most of the trees died with the plants. Now it's just tall bull grass, sulfide weeds and Cats Claw.

 

[Ddiamond Digger]

I was prospecting an area in Colorado, and suddenly a guy arrives with a bulldozer and a wheel loader. I walked over and asked whats happening... he eventually told me that someone from Forest service wants a road closed out of spite. It took a few hours of chatting before he said it, I guess I won his confidence.... So then a FS guy in a truck arrived and made sure the job gets done, they ripped up the road we used to get to our prospecting area.
Total over reach of any kind of law enforcement anywhere. Some leftie in the office decided they do not want a mine going up on public land and used Government funds to illegally destroy a forest service road. So yes I fully agree with this law removing their ability to do stuff like this. I can prove what I say..