Brass bullet casing//Update photos.

[Dig-it-all]

Found a brass shell casing this morning, but cant get a good picture with my scanner. I will try to describe it. It is about one inch long, the diameter is just a little smaller than a dime. The lip on the end is very thin and it is flat, almost like a 22cal shell. It does not have a primer but instead has a small hole dead center. Also there is no numbers or letters anywhere on the base its just flat. It was very deep, about ten inches and I know from this field deep is old. Found nearby was a large tombac button and general service eagle button, also about 3 or 4 old shotgun shell brass bases. Has anyone seen or heard of a casing like this.

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: Brass bullet casing

Difficult without an image, but it sounds like a .52 Maynard. "Just a little smaller than a dime" is pretty vague.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Brass bullet casing

Dig-it-all wrote:
> It is about one inch long, the diameter is just a little smaller than a dime.
> The lip on the end is very thin and it is flat, almost like a 22cal shell.
> It does not have a primer but instead has a small hole dead center.
> Also there is no numbers or letters anywhere on the base its just flat.

First and foremost... if the object is a bullet-casing, accurately determining its caliber is essential for identifying it. The diameter of a US dime is "about" .71-inch. So, "just a little smaller than a dime" translates to 60-something caliber.

Second... you say the object "does not have a primer but instead has a small hole dead center." That means, if the object is a bullet-casing, it did not have a "self-contained" (a.k.a. "internal") primer.

None of the bullet-books in my reference library show a 60-something caliber metallic cartridge with "a small hole dead center" in its base. So, based on the descriptive info you've supplied thus far (but no photos), it would seem that the object is not a bullet-casing.

That being said... what is the size of the "small" hole? Is it just a pinhole, or larger one, like .15-to-.20-inch? I'm asking because I've seen a few metallic bullet casings whose centerfire primer is missing, which leaves a .15-to-.20-inch hole in the center of the casing's flat base.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Re: Brass bullet casing

Charlie P. wrote:
> Difficult without an image, but it sounds like a .52 Maynard.

Charlie, I considered the Maynard as a possibility, but had to exclude it, for two reasons. The Maynard is .50-caliber or .51-caliber, which is quite significantly smaller than "just a little smaller than a dime." Also, the Maynard casing's length is about 1.4-inches, which is much too long to be the "about 1 inch long" object found by Dig-it-all.

 

[Dig-it-all]

Re: Brass bullet casing

Sorry guys. I know my measurements are very vague. I will try to get a picture of it with something to compare it with.

 

[Dig-it-all]

Re: Brass bullet casing

I got a few pictures from my cellphone. it measures 29/32" long. and the base is 9/16" wide.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thank you for making more-accurate measurements, and the additional photos.

The object is definitely a bullet-casing. Except for the pinhole in your casing's flat base, it looks exactly like a Spencer Breechloading Rifle/Carbine cartridge's casing. (That firearm was in use from about 1862 through the first half of the Indiian Wars era, and afterwards was sold to the Civilian population as war-surplus, for use in big-game hunting.) The Spencer used a Rimfire casing, meaning the primer was contained inside the rim around the casing's base.

At the moment, I am unaware of an explanation for what appears to be a Spencer casing which has a pinhole at the center of its base. Such a pinhole was used on externally-primed metal casings, such as the Maynard, Gallagher, and Burnside -- because they did not contain a primer within them. But no Spencer-with-a-base-pinhole is shown in any of the bullet-books in my reference-library.

I used digital calipers to extra-precisely measure several excavated Spencer casings in my collection. Since your measurements are in fractions-of-an-inch length (19/32", base-diameter 9/16"), I assume you used a ruler. If you can get access to some digital calipers, please use them to re-measure your casing "extra-precisely," to see if it matches my Spencer casing measurements. For example, my "fired" Spencer casings' flat bases consistently measure .635" in diameter.

It would also be helpful to measure the diameter of your casing's cylindrical body, just above the base-rim. My fired Spencer casings consistently measure .565-.570" at that location.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

I THINK you might have what's known as a Benet primed cartridge or a Martin bar and anvil primed cartridge. MAYBE..... It'll take more research to confirm that, I've personally never seen one, but that's what it APPEARS to be. Having said that, here's a couple links, the first one explains how they worked, the next is an unfired round that was recently auctioned. Please keep us posted, I'd be really interested to know if that's what it turns out to be.

http://www.nij.gov/training/firearms-training/module03/fir_m03_t06_02_c.htm

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=8451968.0

More info : http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=205573&sid=558ad36f17c020d2338c90df6188fe32

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Sorry, but no... unlike Dig-it-all's casing, neither Bar-Anvil-primer casings nor Benet-primer casings have a pinhole (or any size of hole) in the flat base of the casing.

Also, as the Links you provided show, Benet-primed casings have an indention which encircles the casing "a little bit" above the base-rim. Bar-Anvil primer casings have an encircling indention "immediately" above the base-rim. Dig-it-all's casing clearly does not show any such encircling indention.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Sorry, but no... unlike Dig-it-all's casing, neither Bar-Anvil-primer casings nor Benet-primer casings have a pinhole (or any size of hole) in the flat base of the casing.

Also, as the Links you provided show, Benet-primed casings have an indention which encircles the casing "a little bit" above the base-rim. Bar-Anvil primer casings have an encircling indention "immediately" above the base-rim. Dig-it-all's casing clearly does not show any such encircling indention.

my thought was that possibly the pin hole was caused by the hammer/firing pin, and that the crimp could have been expanded back to round from the pressure of the shot. Like I said.....maybe. I've never actually seen one, so I'm putting it out there as a possibility, and a starting point for more research. either way, it's got me interested, and I'll keep looking.....

 

[Dig-it-all]

Hello and thank you for all your info and interest in this casing. The length is 29/32" so just a little less than an inch. Also i looked inside with a flashlight and on the base i can see a grey round circle of discoloration about half the diameter of the outside of the base. Also the pinhole is not pushed in from the outside it is just a hole. I dont know if that helps in any way.

 

[Dig-it-all]

To Nola Ken, the picture of the 45 S&W M1875 R F, 9 84 looks very very similar in shape especially the base from the side.

 

[Dig-it-all]

Two more pictures. base and inside

 

[NOLA_Ken]

From the last two pics, I'm kind of leaning less toward bullet, and more to some type of cap for something...... The fact that the hole seems machined and not rough punched, and that the base is concave.....I just don't know. You might look into posting it on an ammunition collectors site.