Brass??

[Charlene]

Site dated back into the 18th century. This thing is brass, 4 inches long, 1-1/2 inches wide, hollow inside. Any ideas or guess would be greatly appreciated.

 

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[Gypsy Heart]

I think it might be the top of a flag pole .

 

[nhbenz]

Dang, I was about to say that. I can't find one just like it, but darn it looks familiar. Civil war maybe? You're in Virginia, right?

 

[Charlene]

Yep, in Virginia, the site was in New Kent County, (Richmond area). Gyspy, I had one gentleman that saw it and like you said it reminded him of the top of a flag pole. I've tried to search civil war flag poles but no luck yet. I found both north and south mini balls in the same area.

Hopefull going back tomorrow and see what else I can dig up.

 

[nhbenz]

Well, you've definately got a great hunting site!

 

[DigEmAll]

Do a search in the "Bell" category.

 

[Ricky1601 aka pull tab king]

Iwas gonna suggest mabey a cow bell?

 

[trk5capt]

CHARLENE, That May Very Well Be The End Piece To A Calvery Guide On, A Small Flag Pennant That Showed The Co. & Unit #. Hope This Is Helpful. trk5capt...

 

[rasrandy]

Its definately what they call a whiffletree.I found one and thought that it was the top to a flagpole also.They were used on horse drawn carriages.It sat on top of a wooden pole and the horse reigns went through the hole on the top and acted as a guide.There were two of these on whatever was being pulled by horses.A nice turn of the century find.

 

[Charlene]

Thanks Rasrandy, where did you locate the information? I've searched whiffletree aka whippletree, all images and descriptions I can fiind are showing them as pivoting or swinging T shaped bars.

The hole seems small (half of an inch) for a thick wide rein to go through.

 

[rasrandy]

Its been a while since I posted mine so I went to the post and seen it was called a whiffletree tip.The dictionary describes it as a crossbar that is attached to the traces of a horse and to the vehicle that the horse is pulling.Someone replied to my post,and thats where I got the name from. Search with this--whiffletree tips--

 

[Charlene]

Thanks Rasrandy. I finally found a picture of one. Ran a search on wagon parts... They say when your whiffle tree breaks you're SOL. Thanks a bunch for everyones input.

 

[rasrandy]

Charlene,check this out- go to civilwaroutpost.com,click onto dug relics and go down to item #D31.The one that I found has a hole close to the bottom.Does yours?When you looked at the wagon parts did it have a hole in it also?Just want to see if there is a difference between the two because there both similiar.The other being a civil war flagpole tip.Do you think he has a flag tip or vice versa?HHs

 

[Charlene]

Wow, they are close aren't they. The picture I found of a whiffletree is small as you can see, and of course its new and not a relic. Mine does have a screw hole also. I still say the hole is much to small for a rein on a wagon or carriage. More research is in order,

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Well, here's my 2-cents. Which just might turn out to be all my opinion in this case is worth. ;-)

Let's examine the item "logically."

The purpose of the hole(s) in the cylinder's sides is for a a locking-pin to hold the cylinder onto the end of a wooden shaft (or mounting-stub).

I agree with Charlene that the opening in the item's end appears to be too small for the usual size/thickness of wagon-horse reins. Those strips of leather need to be fairly substantial ...especially when they have to be long enough to go from the horse's front end, all along its back and rump, and then however much further from there to the wagon-driver's hands. If you've ever tried to turn a horse in a direction it didn't want to go, you know that a "heavy-gauge" leather strip is truly required (to match the strength in a horse's neck-muscles).

I've dug more than a few of another odd-looking brass relic, which I've been told does what some people here are saying a whiffletree does. The item is an (approximately) 5/16-inch-thick brass ring about the diameter of a half-dollar, which has a 1&3/4-inch-long 5/16-inch-diameter "stem" that has a small circular "collar" and a threaded tip. Supposedly, it was mounted on the upper part of a wagon-horse (or mule's) body-harness, to keep the reins from dropping down, while also keeping them "free-moving." (I wish I had a picture, but I don't, so I'm trying to point you a picture with words.)

Envision this: When you rig your horse(s) to the wagon, you put the reins from the horse's head through the ring-thing mounted on the horse's harness-gear and then pull them (the reins) back to the wagon-seat.

Note: some of today's lawnmowers have a similar ring-thing mounted on the mower's long handle-frame, to keep the starter-cord up on its path from the engine to near the the "handlebar."

Now, if Charlene's brass relic is indeed a flagpole-tip/guidon-tip, the hole at its end could be for attaching "honors" (ribbons). The hole is about the right size for those.

I'll "stay tuned" here, to find out which theory about the relic turns out to be the correct one. : )

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy

Regards,
TheCannonballGuy

 

[DigEmAll]

Speaking from a military point of view and as a former guide-on bearer the "Honor ribbons" are tied on to the top of the pole, below the pike that sits atop the pole.

Speaking from a horsemans point of view, the hole in that brass item is way to small for and reins or leads of any type that I have ever seen. Reins some in two standard widths, 5/8 and 3/4 inch and usually 1/4 inch thick. Carrage or buck-board reins would probably be the thicker type because of the added length.

Seeing as I have no formal education in farming with horses and I only know what I was taught by being told or shown, I may be wrong about this... The whiffletree is the actual pulling rig. It is the "T" on the end of the tongue and the bars that are directly behind each animal. The bar has a chain from its middle that attaches to one end of the "T" and a chain from each end of the bar that goes along each side of the animal to the pulling harness. Clear as mud now? I'll try to make a diagram to help clear it up.

As for the item.... I am still going with a bell of some sort.

The Whifle Tree parts are shown in red.

 

[Leon]

I'd have to go along with the, "Flagpole Tip", either way it's a great find, WTG!!!
Good luck, & Happy hunting~

 

[Charlene]

Whiffletree, whippletree, singletree.. no, the item is way to small to take the strain of horses and reins. And the whiffletree was definitely a a large T bar usually made of wood that rings were attached to for the reins to run through. When I look at the civilwaroutpost.com site, under "dug relics" there is a similar item D31, thats darn close, screw hole and all. The difference being the ridge is on the bottom and mine is located about a half inch up. The arch of the hole on mine was beaten down as I can see on the top where someone flattened it with a hammer, probably driving it onto the pole it was once attached to.

Defiantly not a bell, the top of the inside is as smooth as a baby's bottom, no sign that a dinger would have hung inside. The curiosity goes on.

 

[rasrandy]

I agree completely-Im going with flag tip.Mine also had the wood inside and was shaved like item D31 so I would rule out the bell guess.The wood wouldnt nearly be as strong because of its thickness-yeah flag tip is my guess

 

[Charlene]

Rasrandy, check out this site, mmcwrt.missouri.org/default.htm scroll down until you see the different type head of "spontoons" I believe we have the "1" without the heart shaped finial, I'm guessing it would have wedged down on the piece we have. What do you think guys and gals?