Brazil over-struck

[unclemac]

I have been working on the "definitive" Mexican coin collection for quite some time. I don't recommend you fall into this REALLY deep hole, (actually a bottomless pit). So I have all the easy stuff and a lot of the gold but the more I read, the deeper the hole gets! Recently I got Pradeau's book from 1938 and as I read I discovered a few MORE coins I needed. Now I knew that several countries would take Spanish Colonial dollars (8 reales) and add a counter stamp or even over -strike the whole thing, and I have several examples of these coins. Including 3 different examples that the Portuguese were doing for different areas, but I learned that starting in 1810 all the Brazilian 960 Reis coins were over-strikes. So, of course I needed one. These are easy to find on ebay and not terribly expensive. Most of these coins are well struck and you have to hold the coin just right and in the right light, to see the ghost image of the Spanish coin underneath. These well struck coins are expensive while the more obvious ones seem to be cheaper. Well my whole point is the SEE the Spanish coin so I got this beauty! Notice the Spanish coat of arms dead center!

 

[Trezurehunter]

That is a nice looking coin.

 

[Mackaydon]

If the Mexican coin weighs 26.99 grams, it was minted in 1809; otherwise, it was minted later--in the years 1811-1814--and weighs 27.07 grams. Of course the over-strike may have changed the weight. Great find.
Don in SoCal
PS: The "HJ" assayer's initials limits the years of minting to what is mentioned above.

 

[mrwiskers]

unclemac says: I don't recommend you fall into this REALLY deep hole, ...

..I hear ya ... I really like these coins ... beautiful designs, &, historically, very interesting.

...I collect colonial Spanish coinage, & after reading about these 960s, I had to have some for myself ... I have 2 of the 3 basic designs of this coinage. Both coins have readable dates & mint marks from the host coins, along with much other visible details of same. (very hard to photograph, but easily seen under a good light, with 2x magnification.)

The earlier (1814) coin was overstruck on an 1813 Potosi 8R, under Ferdinand VII, & the 2nd coin (1819) struck over a Mexico City 1807 8R, under Charles IV. ...

The 960 reis coins were also struck over other country's dollar-sized coins (Argentina, Chile, & US silver dollars, among others). Host coinage was used by the Brazilian government, as Brazil's silver mines were owned & controlled by the City of London banks, & it was cheaper to buy foreign bullion than to pay the banker's prices. The most rare of these coins were the ones struck with local silver, no host coin being used. The second most rare are the US dollar overstrikes.

Also of interest: ...these coins were accepted here in the USA as legal tender (up until 1856), only if it was evident that they were struck from Spanish 8 reales ... So, Argentina, Chile, et. al. ... Fuhgeddaboudit ...

 

[unclemac]

nice! I would also add that collection Brazil/Portugal Colonial is a much better bargain that Spanish Colonial, not as much interest I guess. It is also a deep well to fall into. I have a great Mexican Colonial, sent over to China, gets chop marked... winds up in the Azores with a counter stamp.

 

[mrwiskers]

unclemac says: "I have a great Mexican Colonial, sent over to China, gets chop marked... winds up in the Azores with a counter stamp..."

I have some (cut 'bits' of 8 reales cobs, mid-1650s) ... same deal). Mine, all minted at the Mexico City colonial mint, were shipped to Spain, traded to the Dutch East India Co. (Netherlands / "VOC"), then shipped to Indonesia (spice trade), cut & chopped by the different merchants who traded them, & ended up here in Tennessee, in my collection.

Here's a couple, with dates showing ... the chop marks are Indonesian. ...

Would really like to see that coin of yours! ..

 

[unclemac]

when I get home I will post it. In the mean time here is a great one I passed on in an auction last Friday.... just didn't have the need for it, it went for a bit over $400. Dutch East Indies, Madura, 8 reales, Mexico, 1730

 

[unclemac]

another from the auction... Curacao

 

[unclemac]

here is the Azores coin...

 

[mrwiskers]

Thanks for posting ... very nice counterstamp, unclemac ... counter stamped Spanish coinage is a specialized field, & the prices can be intimidating ...

...Also, very deceptive Asian fakes are on the market ... "Caveat Emptor" ...

 

[unclemac]

no doubt about that! I have seen sky rocket prices... especially since about 2022 or so, and I thought the prices were high before!

 

[unclemac]

Thanks for posting ... very nice counterstamp, unclemac ... counter stamped Spanish coinage is a specialized field, & the prices can be intimidating ...

...Also, very deceptive Asian fakes are on the market ... "Caveat Emptor" ...

speak of the devil.... this one was even posted as a fake stamp on a real coin and it sold for about $540