bullet casing identification

[jaybird10e]

Please help identify.
Found a bunch of these on the banks of the river. They are pretty corroded so i dont see any identification marks except for one of them it looks like it reads "G" and "3".
There seems to be two different types (see pics). I have been finding stuff around the 1800's in this area if that helps.
Thanks in advance!

 

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[fyrffytr1]

I think the second one used a Benet primer. Can you post a clear picture of the inside bottom of it?

 

[BosnMate]

The last one is a fired, inside primed case for either a .45-70 Springfield rifle, or a .45-55 carbine. This round was adopted by the army in 1873, and was in military use for around 20 years, however that cartridge was used by civilians for many years after that. The inside primed "bennet" cartridges in that caliber were the earliest version, and were phased out by by 1877 when re-loadable primed cartridges were adopted. Also, the first cartridges were head stamped in 1877, and I can see part of a head stamp on the base of the cartridge in your photo, so it can't be any earlier than 1877. In your photo, I can see an 8 to the left side. That would be the month month of production. At the top center I barely see a C. That indicates it was for the carbine. The year of manufacture would be on the right, but it is so corroded I can't make anything out. I would be willing to bet your cartridge was manufactured in 1877 because of it being inside primed and head stamped. The reason the cartridge is so rotted away is because they were loaded with black powder, and the remains of those salts in the fired case ate it up over the years. Today if I shoot my black powder guns, I wash the empty brass afterwards, with soap and water, to keep that from happening, so I can use the brass again.

 

[jaybird10e]

Please help identify.
Found a bunch of these on the banks of the river. They are pretty corroded so i dont see any identification marks except for one of them it looks like it reads "G" and "3".
There seems to be two different types (see pics). I have been finding stuff around the 1800's in this area if that helps.
Thanks in advance!

CH]Here is a pic of the inside of the two different ones.

 

[jaybird10e]

here is a pic of the headstamp after i lightly sanded it to reveal some of the letters...

 

[ScubaDetector]

Benet primer for sure. My educated guess is what is left of a 45-70 shell.

 

[BosnMate]

This is not a guess, it's a fact, the head stamp tells what it is. It's the remains of a .45-55 carbine round. Check the head stamp, the 3 or 8, looks like a 3 after sanding, means the month of manufacture. 45-70 cartridges for both the rifle and carbine looked alike on the outside, but the carbine round was loaded with 55 grains of black powder, and the rifle round was loaded with 70 grains of powder. So in order to tell them apart, they were stamped with an R or a C. Yours has a C, it's a carbine round. The area of the stamp that tells the year of manufacture is unable to be read, but I've given my educated guess and explained why it's probably 77. There was some over lap, and production didn't stop and start on both types in 77, note in the picture there is a head stamp on an inside primed cartridge for 82, so I guess it would be more accurate to say yours is between 77 and 82. And finally at the bottom there is an F. That tells you the cartridge was manufactured at Frankford Arsenal, which was a government owned ammunition manufacturing facility near Philadelphia.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ammo/comments/1zxxv3/history_and_development_of_the_4570_us_government/

 

[jaybird10e]

This is not a guess, it's a fact, the head stamp tells what it is. It's the remains of a .45-55 carbine round. Check the head stamp, the 3 or 8, looks like a 3 after sanding, means the month of manufacture. 45-70 cartridges for both the rifle and carbine looked alike on the outside, but the carbine round was loaded with 55 grains of black powder, and the rifle round was loaded with 70 grains of powder. So in order to tell them apart, they were stamped with an R or a C. Yours has a C, it's a carbine round. The area of the stamp that tells the year of manufacture is unable to be read, but I've given my educated guess and explained why it's probably 77. There was some over lap, and production didn't stop and start on both types in 77, note in the picture there is a head stamp on an inside primed cartridge for 82, so I guess it would be more accurate to say yours is between 77 and 82. And finally at the bottom there is an F. That tells you the cartridge was manufactured at Frankford Arsenal, which was a government owned ammunition manufacturing facility near Philadelphia.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ammo/comments/1zxxv3/history_and_development_of_the_4570_us_government/

View attachment 1397286

Oh wow...you are a wealth of knowledge on this. i had to read it a few times to soak it in. Thank you so much!