Bullet Guys, Help Me Out!

[mrmastadon]

My coil hasn't swung over much interesting lately (not for lack of trying) so I was going through my finds box and happened across this gray lead bullet. Let me preface this by saying I know *nothing* about ammunition, but seeing as I live in what was once the murder capital of the south, I find lots and lots of them, and I find the variety interesting. This one caught my eye simply because it's the only one I've found with a double groove. I understand it's post Civil War based on the reeded cannelure, but that's pretty much the extent of what Google has taught me. Any additional info you smart people can add would be much appreciated! Thanks, y'all.

-Andrew

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

I agree with your assessment of the "post CW" based on the reeding in the cannelure. If you take multiple measurements around the base is it consistent? 0.3440" isn't a commerciual size for a bore.

I'd guess it's maybe a .33 Winchester (0.3385" unfired) or a .357/.38 caliber (0.358" unfired) that upset or was deformed to give that diameter reading.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Mrmastodon wrote:
> Let me preface this by saying I know *nothing* about ammunition, but [...]

Okay, here's some "basics." The term caliber refers to the diameter of the tunnel (the "bore") inside the gunbarrel. Caliber is NEVER the same as the projectile's diameter. Firing the bullet through a bore which has rifling grooves tends to squeeze the bullet's body into the grooves. So, measuring the diameter of a fired bullet WITHOUT INCLUDING the raised rifling ridges on the bullet tells you the gun's caliber. Rifling grooves in the gun's bore usually are only about .01 or .015-inch deep, so when you measure a fired bullet's diameter, if rifling-marks (ridges) are showing, you must subtract about .01 to .015-inch to calculate the gun's caliber.

Your photos show the base of your fired bullet did indeed get somewhat deformed by impact. I suggest you put the calipers around its body on the section in between the two body-grooves (correctly called cannelures -- which most people incorrectly call "rings"). Then, measure it again, putting the calipers just slightly above the bullet's upper groove. Then come back and tell us those measurements.

Sidenote:
The earliest historical record I can find for a US-made bullet which had the "reeding" (multiple tiny parallel ridges) inside the groove/cannelure is 1877. I do not know who gets credit for inventing reeded-groove bullets, and I do not know whether European manufacturers produced them earlier or later than US bullet-manufacturers.

> seeing as I live in what was once the murder capital of the south [...]

Would that be downtown Atlanta, or Miami, Memphis, Birmingham, or New Orleans?

 

[mrmastadon]

Your photos show the base of your fired bullet did indeed get somewhat deformed by impact. I suggest you put the calipers around its body on the section in between the two body-grooves (correctly called cannelures -- which most people incorrectly call "rings"). Then, measure it again, putting the calipers just slightly above the bullet's upper groove. Then come back and tell us those measurements.

This is why I hang around here -- you all are such a wealth of information, and I am learning all the time. Attached are some new photos (#1 between the grooves and #2 just above the upper cannelure, as suggested. #2 is not tilted, I was just holding the camera at a weird angle). Indeed the measurements are more consistent.

seeing as I live in what was once the murder capital of the south [...]

[/COLOR]Would that be downtown Atlanta, or Miami, Memphis, Birmingham, or New Orleans?

Actually Durham, NC. For a medium sized city, this was the wild west back in the late 80s and early 90s.

Amusing sidenote: My wife just said "come to bed," and I said, "hold on, I need to measure this bullet for the people on Treasurenet."
This is what my life has become...

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Mrmastodon, your new measurements, plus the excellent closeup photos showing the bullet in the caliper's jaws, with measurement-reading (thank you very much) indicate Charlie_P.'s suggestion of a .338-caliber Winchester bullet is correct. Let's theorize that your measurement of .350-inch comes from .338" bore-diameter plus approximately .01" added by rifling ridges AND some lead-oxide patina, equals your .3495/3.500" reading.

Many people forget to consider that a long-buried bullet can accumulate .005 to .01" of lead-oxide patina, especially on PURE-LEAD bullets, such as civil war Minie-bullets. Mrmastodon's bullet shows not much lead-oxide, because like most late-1800s-to-presentday bullets it is made of a "hardened-lead alloy." The presence of another metal (such as Tin, or Antimony) in the alloy inhibits the formation of lead-oxide.

Related trivia:
Here's an interesting photo which shows the "recipe" for making the hardened-lead alloy bullets to re-load the cartridge casings in a box of 1886 Winchester ammo for a .45-70 rifle.

Almost forgot to say, thank you for answering my question about the former "murder capital of the south."

 

[mrmastadon]

Awesome! Thanks for taking to time to share all of this.

-Andrew