Bullets?

[JakePhelps]

Is there a way to identify musketballs or other lead projectiles I have heard the pros use scales to weigh the bullet if it has impacted soemthing...how do you measure the circumference of a bullet to determine caliber? Iv got alot of old lead balls and stuff and i want to ID what caliber, type etc....

 

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[bakergeol]

Several years ago I had an old collection of lead that I detected on various Civil War battlefield sites. I decided to see if I could identify them.

I purchased a book "Civil War Projectiles 11 Small Arms & Field Artillery" by W. Reid McKee and M.E. Mason Jr. I was able to identify all of them- even to Union or Confederate useage.

Great book with photos for all rounds. Rifle to pistol to cartridges round balls to artillery rounds and fuses. A lot of data there- for bullet identification - weight, length, diameter. cavity characteristics, number of grooves,etc. I used a small scale and a micrometer(bought it at flea market) for accurate measurements of length and diameters.
I had a lot of fun identifying my bullets.
George

 

[JakePhelps]

Thats a great link and book! but sadly I have no money to affford them Whats a micrometer? I could maybe afford that if its just a few bucks I have a civil war collectibles book, but it doesnt go into details with the bullets.

 

[Leon]

You can get a micrometer at, " Big Lots " these days... Not sure where else you would go to buy one, except for maybe a hardware store... Good luck & Happy hunting!~

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Thats a great link and book!? but sadly I have no money to affford them ? ?Whats a micrometer??

A) HIO? Jake. If your seeing apparatus (eyes) are ok, just get a pair of cheap dividers from a stationary store , or even make a pair yourself.? They are used to measure the distance between? objects, etc.? In your case you do NOT need the accuracy of a micrometer.? ?Just bend the points of the dividers at right angles so that they meet.

Even simpler and cheaper, just get a piece of medium heavy soft wire, one which will not have any spring back, such as copper.? Bend it into a 'u' shape, then bend the points inward towards each other so that when you close the "U", the ponts will meet.? ? ?[_]
?
Just span the original dia of the projectile, where it remains, then without changing the setting, compare it with an accurate ruler.? You are not concerned with 1000'th of an inch for comparative identification.?

This, plus shape, weight? and size, should put you on the home plate of the ball park.

Have fun

Jose de La Mancha? ( Itlt windmills )



P.S If you were into forensics or reloading, you would need to measure in 1000th of an inch or millimeters. ,351, 357 .358, -? ?7.62? 7.63? 7.65? etc.

 

[dudes2112]

Probably don't need the accuracy of a micometer. Verniers or micrometer would work well if you knew someone that had them, but definetely not something you would want to buy just for measuring lead. The pic shows verniers on the left and a micrometer on the right.

Dudes

 

[JakePhelps]

Thanks for all the reat advice guys I think the vernier would be great, but that too costs more money than i prolly have Didnt think of a divider! I think i may have one of those laying around Is there a chart online that you can compare measurements to see what caliber/type it is?

 

[Monty]

Jake, I have been into reloading and shooting for nearly 40 years and I have all the measureing equipment. Strangely enough most lead bullets measurements have little to do with what they are called. For instance, a .44 magnum lead bullet usually measures .429". If the ones you have are not too heavy to mail, you can mail them to me and I'll measure them for you and mail them back. Also you might shop old book stores for a reloading manual for lead bullets, the older the better, perhaps Lyman is a good one to look for. They have nearly all the old black powder lead bullets and muzzle loading bullets in them. Monty

 

[JakePhelps]

Just tried the divider thing and its Excellent!....no wait thats montys line, ok it works great! Could only find a few to measure, think the rest are in riker display cases somewhere in my messy room :P They measured 5/8" .5" and 3/8" Some were impossible to measure because they were just blobs of lead slugs, in fact i have come to the conclusion that some were not even bullets, just blobs of lead One in particular is neat because it looks as if it splashed when it was molten then hardened like that. Also i found alot of good sites for caliber and stuff Heres one in particular that could help me out: http://www.chuckhawks.com/caliber_conversions.htm Ugh im using math outside of school! whats wrong with me LoL.

Sorry jim, my mom wont let me use the mail after what i did the last time i tried to mail something, ended up getting lost in canada or something Sides i need to learn this so i dont have to mail you every bullet i dig up But thanks for the very generous offer
Wonder if nana has ever tried to see what caliber her bullets are? then again that could take awhile

So according to that site and my measurements:
The "picket" or "sugarloaf" bullet i have is .50 Cal.
My Musketball is .625 inches but there isnt .625 on the chart so im guessing .62 caliber musketball like they used civil wr era?
Small little slug is .375" and is .375 Cal...wow thats obvious :P

Thanks for all the help guys and thanks for the great offer jim

by the way-does anyone know what these particular calibers were usually used for? I mean-.62 cal for hunting seems alil overkill? but then again back in the 1800's it prolly wasnt

 

[JakePhelps]

Seems i got quiet a collection between found and bought bullets

.35 Rifle
.25 brass casing
.4275 lead minie
.357 musketball
.8125 Iron Grapeshot
.3125 Musketball
.25 Musketball
.625 Musketball
.375 Pulled musketball
.375 crudely molded musketball
.50 picket or sugarloaf bullet
.875 grapeshot??

Got a little collection going here

Also got alot that are just unidentifiable slugs Maybe by weight i could ID them?

Oh yea-does anyone know the true caliber of grapeshot from civilwar?

Thanks in advance, Jake.

 

[bakergeol]

Actually for the Civil War large caliber rifle bullets ether round balls or mines were the norm. Common CW round musket and mine balls ranged from roughly 50 caliber to? over .70. Smaller calibers were mainly for? revolvers although I guess a lot of exceptions such as carbines exist.

The large caliber CW bullets made amputation a cure all. Once these struck bone it just destroyed the bone at impact point.

Regarding your question about your iron grapeshot. I am no exoert but according to my book iron grapeshot ranged from 3.15" to 2.38"(1.8 lbs). The iron round shot below that (2.24" to .85") is classified as canister to case shot. Grape shot was 9 shots per round whereas cannister varied from commonly 27 per round to 1000 for the smaller diameter. Iron balls with .85" is described as case shot-625 balls in 11", 435 in 10", 350 in 9" and 220 in 8".

George

 

[JakePhelps]

ok so i think the larger musketballs were used in a civil war era musket for hunting or something, the small shots were used in a small bore pistol and the large shot is case shot. makes sense, thanks What inds of muskets used .62 cal ammo? im assuming they stopped making those rifles long ago.

 

[Monty]

Jake , if that ball measures about 62 caliber it probably fit a gun tht was about .65 caliber. They cast them undersize and patched them with mattress ticking to make them fit the bore and seal off the gases to get best velocity. Some of them were paper patched, powder and ball both were sat in a paper tube for quick loading. They would tear off the bottom of the papwer to expose the powder and just shove everything down the barrel, bullet on top. The minnie ball was the first true bullet and was usually fired in rifles with cut rifling. They had one grove or more to hold a lube, often lard or bear grease...whatever was available. They didn't need to be patched because the base expanded to fill the grooves and seal the bore when fired. They were much more accurate than the old smoothe bore muskets because of the shape of the bullet and the imparted spin by the rifling. They just about did away with the old way of warfare, lining up and fireing volleys into the ranks because they were so accurate.. They were also one of the main reasons there were so many killed int he Civil War. JIM er...uh....Monty

 

[JakePhelps]

Thanks jim! i totally forgot about the piece of cloth they wrapped it in :P so when did they use .65 caliber rifles? forget when teh minie was invented

 

[Monty]

I know a lot, but not everything! They used the large bores from the time guns were invented up until smokeless powder came along. I seem to recall it was just after the Civil War? And , if I am not having a senior moment, I think the .30-30 was the first entirely smokeless rifle cartridge in the U.S. Why the big bores? Because they couldn't get very high velocity out of black powder and they had to rely on size of the projectile rather than muzzle velocity. Monty

 

[JakePhelps]

Thanks a ton for all the info guys

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

by the way-does anyone know what these particular calibers were usually used for?? I mean-.62 cal for hunting seems alil overkill?? back in the


A) ?IO JAKE: ?They learned early that large calibre is directly related to stopping power, something that we seem to have forgotten, especialy in pistols, hence the present rage for ?9mm and ?large capacity instead of the proven 45's. ?Also we have forgotten the old axiom, "one shot, one hit", now it is "spray and pray". A crutch for people too lazy to learn to shoot properly.

I have never seen, or been in a gun fight that ended by sheer ?noise, only hits counted.

p.. Regarding calibres, it no accident that the countries that have dangerous game, and Professional hunters, all specify the .375 as the absoloute minmum.? Most rely upon 45 calibre up despite our higly touted high vel? 22 > 30's? at 3000 fps or more.

Jose de La Manxha ?( I tilt windmills )

"I exst to live, not live to exist"