Butterfield Stage Robbery

[bobinsd]

Does anyone have any info on the Butterfielf Stage Robbery? I am going onto a piece of private property that has the remains of an old station west of Warner Springs. I am hoping it hasn't been detected yet?

 

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[AzSports]

Lots of roberies! Any murders of caretakers at that stop?
Check that area good for stashes made by employees and folks intending to return, but didn't.

 

[Gypsy Heart]

http://personal.linkline.com/shoe62/anza/oldtimers.html

RESTORATION of the Warner ranch house, stage station and store, now designated a State and National Historic Landmark but sadly neglected, has long been considered. Toward that end the Warner Springs Lions Club is urging a four-fold project which it hopes. while fostering, to pass on to county, state or other agencies. In addition to restoring the old adobe building, the Lions propose:

Acquisition of right-of-way for a trail following the Butterfield route from Vallecito to Temecula, a distance of 76 miles, parts of which would be wide enough for the operation of stages; and operation of a stage coach, now being restored, from Warner's Resort to the old Warner house, with a possibility, of extending the stage line farther along the route as required by public demand.

In 1858 John Butterfield began operation of the Great Overland Mail.** Like their forerunners, the lumbering Butterfield stages found a haven at Warner's where a relay station was established at the old ranch house. Warner, by this time, had moved on to other fields of endeavor, including a term in the California Legislature.

 

[pegleglooker]

if you are talking about the stage that left yuma with $60,000 in gold.,and was ambushed b4 vallecito station. i looked into this through the san diego historical society. the story goes that a stage was robbed at carrizo station and the robbers went to vallecito, had a arguement and one killed the other in vallecito and then was shot by the station manager. the story at the historical society records talked about 2 brothers that were on a stage and argued the whole time. when they got to vallecito's they shoot each other. no robbery no gold. somehow it got mixed up with a story of a stage that left yuma with paylaod of about $60k. the shotgun driver got sick in yuma and stayed. the driver tryed to get another from ft yuma and was turned down. the stage was "supposedly" attacked by indians who killed the driver and "buried" the stage somehwere south of carrizo station.all the indians wanted was the horses... i dunno but buring atsage in the hot desert sure is a HUGE job. I have not heard of indians carring shovels either... not saying they didn't just sounds like it needs more deeper research... but i would like to hear if you found out anything...

 

[stefen]

If buried by indians, they probably drove it under a ravine or stream bank and caved the bank in, thus burying the stage...no shovels needed.

 

[Captain Trips]

Dang. How'd you get permission to th in a state park? Especially at a "historic landmark" type of site?

 

[Gork]

Does anyone have any info on the Butterfielf Stage Robbery? I am going onto a piece of private property that has the remains of an old station west of Warner Springs. I am hoping it hasn't been detected yet?

No Butterfield Stagecoach was ever robbed. The Overland Mail Company was a passenger and mail line only. In John Butterfield's Special Instructions was the following under instruction number 8 "No money, jewelry, bank notes, or valuables of any nature, will be allowed to be carried under any circumstances whatever." There are no first hand accounts of a successful robbery of a Butterfield stagecoach obtaining any treasure.

 

[Gork]

Lots of roberies! Any murders of caretakers at that stop?
Check that area good for stashes made by employees and folks intending to return, but didn't.

Note my comment to bobinsd. No Butterfield stagecoach was ever robbed in Arizona. Only once did Indians attack a Butterfield stagecoach in Arizona and it only slowed it down. This was in Apache Pass in February 1861 during the "Bascom" affair. Sometimes the Butterfield stage stations were raided by Indians but only to steal supplys. No Butterfield stage station was robbed of valuables since there wasn't any. There are no first hand accounts to support any stories.
No ruins of Butterfield stage stations exist today except one in Arizona and that is the ruins of Dragoon Springs Stage Station. Of the twenty-six Butterfield Stage Stations in Arizona, thirteen are on private property, and the other thirteen are on Federal, State, or Indian Nation's land. Therefore none can be searched without permission.

 

[Springfield]

Thanks for some reality. I'm familiar with the Butterfield route in New Mexico between the Fort Cummings area and Doubtful Canyon at the AZ line. Are you planning a book on this portion of the route?

 

[Gork]

Thanks for some reality. I'm familiar with the Butterfield route in New Mexico between the Fort Cummings area and Doubtful Canyon at the AZ line. Are you planning a book on this portion of the route?

My interest has been with the Arizona section only. Doubtful Canyon was a particularly interesting part of the trail. You will note that I have been involved with the National Park Service in their endeavor to make the Butterfield Overland Trail a National Historic Trail by 2014. There has been much erroneous material written about Butterfield. As I have mentioned before no Butterfield stagecoaches were ever robbed. Even the old ghost town of Shakespear, just south of Lordsburg, claims to have been a stage stop for Butterfield. This is false since Shakespear didn't exist at that time and is a few miles south of the trail. Lordsburg didn't exist until nineteen years after Butterfield closed operations but the town is built on top of the old trail. Many of the old station sites are now protected or on private land.

 

[Springfield]

... There has been much erroneous material written about Butterfield. As I have mentioned before no Butterfield stagecoaches were ever robbed. Even the old ghost town of Shakespear, just south of Lordsburg, claims to have been a stage stop for Butterfield. This is false since Shakespear didn't exist at that time and is a few miles south of the trail. Lordsburg didn't exist until nineteen years after Butterfield closed operations but the town is built on top of the old trail. Many of the old station sites are now protected or on private land.

Well, locals don't like to let the truth get in the way of a good story. Here are some of the sparse ruins of the stage station at Ft. Cummings. There were 400 deaths during the Apache wars between here and a point about 10 miles west. Lots of roadside graves. [Wish I knew why the photos are posting so small]

 

[Gork]

... There has been much erroneous material written about Butterfield. As I have mentioned before no Butterfield stagecoaches were ever robbed. Even the old ghost town of Shakespear, just south of Lordsburg, claims to have been a stage stop for Butterfield. This is false since Shakespear didn't exist at that time and is a few miles south of the trail. Lordsburg didn't exist until nineteen years after Butterfield closed operations but the town is built on top of the old trail. Many of the old station sites are now protected or on private land.

Well, locals don't like to let the truth get in the way of a good story. Here are some of the sparse ruins of the stage station at Ft. Cummings. There were 400 deaths during the Apache wars between here and a point about 10 miles west. Lots of roadside graves. [Wish I knew why the photos are posting so small]

View attachment 621492

View attachment 621504

Here is a photo of the only ruins in Arizona that still exist. It is Dragoon Springs Stage Station and it was the most westerly of the fortified stations. This is an experiment also. The size of the photo on the longest size is 1600 pixels. When you re-size your photos to post try this if it works.

 

[Goodyguy]

Springfield,
All anyone has to do is click your photo for a larger display, and then click that one for an even larger view.

GG~

 

[Springfield]

Ah, good. Thanks very much, GG.